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Should we start referring to people who believe that vaccines do not cause autism as anti-recovery?

http://alanfreestone.com/dogma-not-...e-turned-their-backs-on-the-causes-of-autism/

This is not childish tit-for-tat. I am seriously appalled that thousands of children could find some relief for their debilitating disease but are denied access because of outrageous claims of a completely indemnified industry and the government it pays for. Anyone else up for this?
 

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That only works if vaccines are linked to autism - which there's absolutely no proof they are.

Of course I'd like to see treatment to improve the lives of autistic children. Who wouldn't?

Have you considered that focusing on continued study of a link which has been disproved over and over might actually be distracting people from real progress in this?
 

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Let's look at one of the pro-vaccine arguments.

There has been an increase in consumption of organic food which matches up with the increase in autism. Therefore...

The only problem with this is that there are a lot of parents who describe babies or children regressing shortly following vaccines--but I haven't seen a single description anywhere of a child regressing shortly after eating pureed organic kale.

The way the total denial of an autism vaccine connection works is by utterly denying all parental reports of regression following vaccines.

And calling that denial "science".
 

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Good science, when you are looking at what might be a new pattern or problem, starts from those case histories and looks closely at what is going on. There have been virtually no studies starting by looking in detail at the children who have regressed. Some of the questions that should be researched:

What vaccines did they receive and when?
Were there reactions? How severe?
Were the children sick and were they treated with antibiotics?
Bowel problems? Do the children have them? When did they start? How severe?
If the children received a birth dose of Hep B containing thimerosal, were there any signs of problems in the first two months?
Other stressors that may have played a role: difficult pregnancy, difficult birth, not breastfed.

Family history:
autoimmune diseases?
possible autism or asperger's in relatives?

Toxic exposures:
lead paint?

The whole point of doing case histories is that it gives you a foundation for doing the bigger research.

For example, Needleman tracked down the fact that even tiny exposures to lead caused brain damage by looking at the actual behavior of actual children with lead exposure. No wonder he was ruthlessly attacked!

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Don't look directly at children with regression ending with an autism diagnosis.

Don't look directly at teens with health problems beginning after an HPV vaccination. Do big studies that look at big questions, which, as the Danish doctors pointed out, can miss the real stuff.

Or cobble together some background rate numbers and say: "look, teenagers are always sick with weird stuff, this is nothing new, just coincidence being mistaken for vaccine injury" and call it a day.

Anything, absolutely anything, no matter how lame, is better than admitting that vaccines are actually injuring measurable numbers of babies or teenagers.
 

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Should we start referring to people who believe that vaccines do not cause autism as anti-recovery?

http://alanfreestone.com/dogma-not-...e-turned-their-backs-on-the-causes-of-autism/

This is not childish tit-for-tat. I am seriously appalled that thousands of children could find some relief for their debilitating disease but are denied access because of outrageous claims of a completely indemnified industry and the government it pays for. Anyone else up for this?
:hug Pre-emptive hug. This topic is often really painful for people.

I think there are two basic camps.

The neuordiversity camp. They believe it is ableist to try and prevent or cure autism.

The prevention/cure camp: They know that autism is a debilitating condition to live with for most individuals and families, and passionately want information on how to prevent or cure it.

IMHO, most or all neurodiverse type vaccinate. Some actively promote vaccination. They do not think anything (including vaccines) contributes to autism - autism just "is."

The prevention/cure camp may or may not avoid vaccines based on whether or not they think vaccines are linked to autism. There absolutely are people who recognise there is a real rise in autism, that autism is typically a debilitating condition, and would love to be able to prevent/cure it (and prevent is always better) but who do not think vaccines are one of the reasons for the rise.
 

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Of course I'd like to see treatment to improve the lives of autistic children. Who wouldn't?
Would you like research to focus on prevention strategies?
 

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Have you considered that focusing on continued study of a link which has been disproved over and over might actually be distracting people from real progress in this?
I fervently want more study of environmental triggers and ASD. Autism in general is understudied and under-funded, despite its severity and prevalence, and environmental issues are particularly underfunded compared to genetics, even though many (most?) scientists believe ASD is the result of a combination of genetic and environmental factors. I call for more environmental studies (as if that will do anything!!! ) They do not have to study vaccines if they feel they have answered the questions or think there are more promising areas to study (although I think they should follow up on Thompson), and I am free to accept or reject the existing studies as I see fit.

To answer your question: I have considered it and the answer is no. Those who fund studies are in charge of what is studied. Trying to pass the back for a failure to study ASD ("you people won't stop talking about vaccines!" ) is pretty weak.
 

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Have you considered that focusing on continued study of a link which has been disproved over and over might actually be distracting people from real progress in this?
It sure seemed to be a distraction for Thompson.

If they would have done at least the thimerosal/tic studies or followed up on the MMR data instead of allegedly throwing it in a trash can, he may have been less distracted. Some real progress may have been made.
 

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As a parent of a child who received a dx of autism, here is what I would advise parents in the same situation:

-What is your end goal? Is it the wellbeing of your child or is it to be accepted by the "popular kids" (should be adults but really sometimes...) ? Because at this point you can't have both. When your focus is your child, you may have to go down some paths that don't sit well with some people. But stuff them. They have nothing to lose spouting off their beliefs and opinions. Your child, OTH, may lose precious time and opportunity for advancement. Consider the source and their experience.

-You have no idea who is really vaccinating their children unless you've seen their medical records. Even then I would be wary of the personal records of doctors' children. They can be easily doctored. :wink: This past week I overheard some cops and their spouses telling stories of how they got out of speeding tickets. Do not be so naive as to think that these favours don't happen between associates in other fields.

-Also there are lots of people online who do not have to make life decisions for children as they have none. You know how before you had children you had all these ideas on parenting and then you had children and many of those ideas went out the door? Again, don't put power into the hands of people that do not have to live with the consequences.
And this goes for "experts" too. Sometimes I think more children have been harmed by professionals (and these are the ones with good intentions) than by abusive parents. One bad child raising philosophy widely adopted can turn out to harm a generation of children. Same goes with medical procedures and practices. (tonsillectomy and over prescription of anti-biotics and psychotropic drugs to name a few).

Observe your child, research and don't ignore your intuition.
 

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Let's look at one of the pro-vaccine arguments.

There has been an increase in consumption of organic food which matches up with the increase in autism. Therefore...
Little known fact: Non-organic food is a recent phenomenon. From the time of the earliest hominids until the Great Depression, everybody ate organic food. The whole world was autistic. End of history lesson.
 

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As a mom of an autistic kid who was diagnosed 4.5 years before his first vaccine, I'd love it if there was a "cure" or chance of recovery. Who wouldn't?
 
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As a mom of an autistic kid who was diagnosed 4.5 years before his first vaccine, I'd love it if there was a "cure" or chance of recovery. Who wouldn't?
Lots of people wouldn't. They believe we should accept autism and celebrate neurodiversity. Their version of accept means "not try to prevent or cure. "

Take a look at neurodiversity blogs if you have the time. I can get you links if you like.
 

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Lots of people wouldn't. They believe we should accept autism and celebrate neurodiversity. Their version of accept means "not try to prevent or cure. "

Take a look at neurodiversity blogs if you have the time. I can get you links if you like.
That is true, I stand corrected. I can see how people who think autism is normal wouldn't want to cure, or change, their loved ones. (The following is just my personal feelings) I mean, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with my son but I do know that chromosomal deletions aren't "normal" either. If I could fix his chromosomes, I would.
 

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As a mom of an autistic kid who was diagnosed 4.5 years before his first vaccine, I'd love it if there was a "cure" or chance of recovery. Who wouldn't?
And your child has a chromosomal disorder if I remember correctly, so not the same as a child injured by vaccines who displays autistic-like behaviors.
 

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And your child has a chromosomal disorder if I remember correctly, so not the same as a child injured by vaccines who displays autistic-like behaviors.
True he does. But, I have the unpopular opinion that most asd is genetic and very little, if any is vaccine related. I know most don't agree with me on here and that's fine.
 
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That is true, I stand corrected. I can see how people who think autism is normal wouldn't want to cure, or change, their loved ones. (The following is just my personal feelings) I mean, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with my son but I do know that chromosomal deletions aren't "normal" either. If I could fix his chromosomes, I would.
Bolding mine. I sort of get this. My oldest probably has ADD. While I do not think there is anything "wrong" with him, and that his brain just does function a little differently than others, I would still have ticked the "no thanks " box to ADD if I could have. While DS has a mild case, and there are some pro's to ADD, some kids really struggle with school, keeping friends, etc. Some are on meds (which does come with risk) or therapy. It isn't something I would have chosen for him.

I think acceptance is great. All people have value just the way they are. Society does need to work on this. OTOH, acceptance does not mean (to me) one shouldn't try to prevent xyz in a child. Some paths are significantly harder on individuals and families than others (and not just because society is less than accepting) ...I do not get why anyone would choose that their child have ASD, which is exactly what some are proposing when they say we should not seek to prevent autism.
 

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Bolding mine. I sort of get this. My oldest probably has ADD. While I do not think there is anything "wrong" with him, and that his brain just does function a little differently than others, I would still have ticked the "no thanks " box to ADD if I could have. While DS has a mild case, and there are some pro's to ADD, some kids really struggle with school, keeping friends, etc. Some are on meds (which does come with risk) or therapy. It isn't something I would have chosen for him.

I think acceptance is great. All people have value just the way they are. society doe need to work on this. OTOH, acceptance does not mean (to me) one shouldn't try to prevent xyz in a child. Some paths are significantly harder on individuals and families than others (and not just because society is less than accepting) ...I do not get why anyone would choose that their child have ASD, which is exactly what some are proposing when they say we should not seek to prevent autism.
I totally get that too. I would never choose a harder life for my kids.

Does your child have gastro issues etc.? Or is it classic autism?
They called it regressive autism because symptoms really showed up around 18-24 months but he had some issues since birth so I don't know if I agree. I think it's more classic autism. Granted, I don't really think about what "kind" of autism he has much because what we call it doesn't change anything.
He had constant diarrhea until he turned about 4, he has mostly grown out of it though it comes back from time to time. I don't know that it's connected but could be.
 
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I think it's more classic autism. Granted, I don't really think about what "kind" of autism he has much because what we call it doesn't change anything.
While it doesn't cross your mind it does for many others.

I know one family that not only went into debt because their insurance wouldn't pay, but they also needed to declare bankruptcy to find that they don't have a chronological disorder like your son has.

Many do have extensive testing and rule out genetic factors and had normal milestone development prior to a vaccine that changed everything.

While you don't agree with many and feel it's genetic, perhaps in your case it is, it has not been conclusively proven to be so. I'm sure if "most" suffered from the disorder your DS has that would be more prevent.

Known chronological disorders are quite rare. The ones where the only connection is a date for a vaccine seem more prevalent, at least that is the case for the ones I know and what I hear other parents are told by specialists after years of extensive testing and finding nothing else.
 

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It just seems sort of straightforward that if your child has:

gastro problems -- you treat them

immune dysfunction -- you treat it

allergies or food intolerances -- you adjust the child's diet

high levels of heavy metals -- you treat as far as possible

and so on.

And if some of the treatments change behaviors -- that doesn't really seem problematic. A human being is not the sum of their behaviors, the last time I checked.
 
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