[mamaboobaAES]

Just thought I would post this before the video gets taken down - haven't figured out how to download it yet.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...a.2698424.html

 

[Nora'sMama]

It's really scary.

I don't know what to think.

On the one hand, I think these drugs are generally safe. I took Paxil, Prozac and Effexor for years (not at the same time

) and never had any suicidal ideation or any other "mental" side effects, like hallucinations. But I had pretty bad side effects and withdrawal effects and eventually decided I would deal with my periodic bouts of depression without drugs.

I take fish oil and try to use cognitive-behavioral techniques to keep myself above water. It's sometimes hard. Lately I have been contemplating going on Zoloft (since it's supposedly safest for BF) to help my depression and anxiety. But then I see things like this and...I just don't know...it scares me.

However, I think that the people who have these reactions to the drugs probably have more going on than just depression when they take the drugs. Didn't Andrea Yates have PPP? She was already psychotic and the drugs may have given her the energy to act on the psychosis. That's what I have always understood to be the mechanism in these types of cases - it's not that the drug causes the suicidal thoughts or hallucinations per se, it's that it gives the depressed and psychotic person the energy to act on their hallucinations or desires to harm themselves/others. Maybe I am remembering that wrong, though.

Anyway, these drugs have all kinds of side effects quite aside from their potential to trigger suicide or homicide. But they also help an awful lot of people. I just think people should be monitored more closely when they are put on these drugs, and doctors should NOT hand them out like candy. When I was first prescribed Paxil (at the age of 17) I was told by my doctor that it had virtually no side effects.

: Yeah, right. After my jaw started twitching uncontrollably and my head felt like it was being zapped with an electric wand, I read the package insert. At that time there was no world wide web so that was all I had. There are MANY common side effects that are highly unpleasant. People should be aware of them before taking these drugs!

 

[mamaboobaAES]

First I should probably tell you that that is ME on the video. I was not suicidal or homicidal before taking Zoloft or after withdrawal. The first time anything out of the ordinary happened, I had been taking Zoloft for 3 days and I had a hallucination. Every time the dose went up, the symptoms got worse.
The news story mentions hallucinations but I only had those the first few days of taking Zoloft. My mom actually emailed the reporter after she came to our house and talked about me having hallucinations throughout but that is inaccurate. I think that is how it got into the story though. I actually had visualizations, not hallucinations, for months. A hallucination is when you literally see or hear something. I did not have those for very long. I had thoughts and fears and images in my mind of me doing things I didn't want to do.

No, I didn't have anything going on to explain the thoughts that happened when I was taking Zoloft, other than one panic attack before I got the prescription, which happened when my son was 4 days old, but never recurred after. I had anxiety because my 3 day old baby nearly choked to death on formula at Children's Hospital. He had to be aspirated with tubes because when he tried to vomit the disgusting leftover formula, it got stuck and he was literally turning red, purple, blue as they got there to save his life. They admitted him overnight.

I was worried about the baby and didn't want others to take over for me. I was vigilant. I slept with my hand on his tummy in the bassinet. The nurse was recommending I let others bottle feed him so I could rest and when I coudln't sleep because I wanted to listen to make sure he wasn't going to choke from the disgusting formula, that was "too anxious." The mere fact that I didn't want him to leave my bedroom in the middle of the night to be held by my MIL was "evidence" that I was overanxious. I took the drugs because a home health nurse thought I was too anxious and set up the appt. for me to see my ob. I started only 6 days after birth. By that time my blood pressure was high and I was really freaking out about the baby getting hurt somehow, and that part I believe was caused by the reaction to everyone else's criticism, having taken an infant CPR class that made me worry about all the possible ways he could be injured or killed, combined with hyperthyroidism. (Later I found out that all along I had had hyperthyroidism as well.)

I don't know how related it was that I had a very unsatisfying and highly drugged up hospital birth. I have been reading the continuum concept and one of the things it said is that "PPD" is a function of "civilized" societies that may be caused when the mother is not able to imprint the baby onto her for bonding at birth. The explanation is that in humans the mother has to bond with the baby because if only the baby imprints the mother, it wouldn't even matter because the baby cannot cling to mommy and follow her around. The medication of births tends to deprive us of the normal hormonal reaction to birth. It also goes on to say that in primitive societies the normal reaction when there is no baby is mourning, because that meant the baby was stillborn. Very interesting theory.

Andrea Yates was on many drugs for years and they did not help her. Two days before she killed her children they cut her dose of Effexor from a clincally unsafe 450 mg to 300 mg. As you wrote, withdrawal is scary! To this day she remains drugged up and locked up and these drugs are still unable to help her get any better.

As for the energy theory, that one is not true. The drugs can cause the thoughts in the first place, not just make you energetic enough to act on them. A Glaxo Smith Kline study that was just released revealed that patients taking Paxil are more than 6 times as likely to become suicidal as those taking placebo.

Patients who are suicidal to begin with are excluded from the studies.

In addition, the Mayo Clinic recently confirmed what Ann Blake Tracy wrote in her book years ago - these psychotropic drugs can cause you to go into a sleep walk state and act out your nightmares. The sleeping meds do that too. It's called "REM Sleep Behavior Disorder" by mainstream doctors, and by the rest of us it is known as REM Sleep deprivation. When you can't get REM sleep your body forces you into extended periods of wakeful sleep to try to compensate during awake periods.

People who have been prescribed these drugs for things like migraines, bladder infections, test anxiety, etc. have committed murders and suicides.

These drugs are very dangerous. I encourage you to make the right decision for you though.

You may be interested in reading my story on my website http://chaada.org/smf/index.php?topic=15.0

Please also read about serotonin syndrome http://uuhsc.utah.edu/poison/healthpros/utox/Vol4_No4.pdf#search='serotonin%20syndrome'

And if you want natural healing, please see http://www.doctoryourself.com/

And check out www.drugawareness.org

 

[mamaboobaAES]

A blurb in Discover some time in 2004 or 2005 - a study that said that infant rats fed Prozac developed life-long anxiety and depression

Also according to Dr. Ann Blake Tracy, Prozac (and other psychotropic drugs) collect in your brain at levels 100 times higher than blood serum levels, so even if the drug is undetectable in the blood, it may take years to metabolize if ever.

The SSRIs and other drugs affect your brain's functions. They block the reuptake by damaging the reuptake mechanism either for a really long time or permanently.

Some people lack the enzymes necessary to metabolize the drugs (about 10% of people) and this can make you especially susceptible to toxicity.

These drugs affect not only your brain but your body as well.

Good luck.

By the way, I posted this thread because I am trying to help people. Please don't take offense. I have no moral problems with anyone using the meds, I just know from experience and research that there are safe ways to treat problems we all have, and I don't believe that that includes psychotropic drugs. I just want people to be warned because I don't believe the drug companies will ever warn us enough - and we need to be able to give informed consent.

 

[huggy]

If a drug gives you hallucinations and causes you to have suicidal/homicidal thoughts, it does not sound "safe" to me anyway.

One of the biggest problems in our society is a basic misunderstanding of stress, sadness, anxiety, and a variety of other issues leading to a labeling of "illness" and a treatment with drugs, yes, expensive drugs which by the way doctors and pharmaceutical companies make huge profits from.

Have you noticed how the doctors only spend 3 minutes with you and tell you what's wrong with you and then hand you a prescription to heal what ails you?

Even talk therapy which is supposed to help those who are genuinely feeling sad is being replaced by 15-20 minute "medchecks" where psychiatrists can bill 4 patients an hour rather than one. Shocking that they would want to do this!!

My sister was perfectly normal before and after her bout with Zoloft.

Her baby almost CHOKED to death and wanting to watch him and make sure he doesn't choke is viewed as overanxious/not normal.

Sure, it's normal and everyday if you're a nurse working in a hospital or ER and you see people almost die for 12 hours a day every shift, but when it is your OWN CHILD, you would hope to have a little more interest in a life or death situation, or what seems like a life or death situation to you when you're upset.

No one says that when you take cocaine or meth or heroin, that you were already "that way" and only the drug "brought out" your true self that acts freaking abnormal/crazy.
So why do we treat Zoloft/Paxil/Prozac differently than cocaine or lithium?

It's the same crap, just marketed differently.

The problem is this new label of anxiety/mental illness whenever someone has a sad episode in your life.

I know people who have been put on drugs after they had cancer, after their marriage was having serious problems, or after someone died. Well duh. Obviously if something that life changing happened to you, you might be a little sad or stressed out. That doesn't mean you need a drug to fix whatever it is.

HELLO It is OK to feel sad. You don't need a dangerous drug that will cause more problems than you originally had.

 

[Nisupulla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by huggy The problem is this new label of anxiety/mental illness whenever someone has a sad episode in your life.

While I can't deny that some people with anxiety might be labelled "mentally ill" and given unnecessary benzodiazapams, like Valium, the BIGGER problem are the people who do have a treatable mental illness who refuse to get help for fear of the label and suffer unnecessarily because they're afraid of being judged by comments like those posted above.

 

[mamaboobaAES]

I have to disagree. I think it's a bigger problem when people take drugs that cause them to go crazy and shoot and drown others including their own children, etc. Or when our children take drugs like Ritalin and have heart problems. Or when babies are born with Persitent Pulmonary Hypotension and die because of SSRI exposure in utero. Or when you get permanent Tardive Diskenesia, or end up on drugs with horrible side effects for the rest of your life because you can't recognize that they are making you worse.

I pray every day that people will experience the least possible harm from these drugs, and if you find they are helping you with no side effects then consider yourself extremely fortunate, because they almost ended my life!!!!!!! And not to mention my baby boy's as well.

Please check out ssristories.com

Have a nice day.

 

[maxwill129]

So what should moms do who have PPD and are hurting their children and natural things just aren't working? Be like Andrea Yates and kill our children? Like that pastor's wife and kill our husband? PPD is a REAL disease. Yes, I believe that some people can react to anti-depressants. SOME people can't have certain medications while others can. SOME people are allergic to certain foods, while others aren't. That's why a doctor who prescribes these medications needs to be watchful, as does the family members who are around the person taking the medication. My friend reacted to the generic anti-depressants. Fortunately, her doctor was awesome and called her daily to check in on her. Her DH knew enough to stay home with her the first few weeks she was on the medication, and I called every day. We got her to the doctor and she switched to Zoloft. Again, we monitored her. She's been fine on the Zoloft.

I know you said not to take offense, and I think that it's something we should be aware of, so thank you for that. But on the other hand, you need to realize that your reaction does not mean that everyone will react that way.

Shannon

 

[Nisupulla]

Quote:

I have to disagree. I think it's a bigger problem when people take drugs that cause them to go crazy and shoot and drown others including their own children

Yes, a small number of people will have adverse reactions to SSRI's, but a huge number of people will benefit. Unfortunately, untreated parental depression has negative consequences on children, so the risks and benefits have to be weighed.

You can disagree with me about which is a bigger issue, but you won't be able to come up with any facts to support your position.

 

[mamaboobaAES]

The myth is that a lot of people will benefit while only a few will suffer. But the truth is that for approval of these drugs the drug companies only have to show two positive studies to get them approved. SSRIs have typically required about 5-6 studies before the drug companies can get two positives. Atypical antidepressants like Wellbutrin and Effexor took about 12-15 to get two positive studies. Efficacy rates were approximately 30-40% of patients in clinical trials showing some improvement, similar to placebo. An active placebo performed the same as the drugs, sometimes better. Exercise performs better than medication in studies. The negative studies that the drug companies perform are not legally required to be disclosed.

Adverse events can be reported to the FDA, but these are postmarketing reports and the drug companies do not have to report them to the public. It is estimated that the amount of adverse events reported is only about 10% of actual events. You can ask your doctor to file a report but he or she may not believe you. You can file one yourself. The SSRIs have had more adverse event reports filed than any other drug in history.

Actually the drug company research shows that it is much more likely that you will become suicidal or homicidal when taking the medication. This has come out in lawsuits. GSK admitted you are 6.4 times more likely to be suicidal on Paxil than placebo.

Also Andrea Yates was under the influence of many psychiatric drugs at once which caused her psychosis. She was also abruptly lowered on her dose of one medication (I think it was Effexor) while on something like Haldol a couple of days before the murders. If you don't know this, abrupt discontinuation causes severe withdrawal syndrome and should never be done. Withdrawal can be worse than the original disease.

Effexor has recently been in the news for causing violence. The Columbine shooters were on antidepressants for the year leading up to the shooting.

The guy who shot a bunch of people at my brother's church (Wedgewood Baptist) in Fort Worth in 1999 was taking Prozac.

I strongly urge you to consider the truth because it can mean life or death for some, even innocent people who are not choosing to use the drugs.

Look up serotonin syndrome on the web- these drugs are basically acting on the brain the same way that LSD, PCP, meth, cocaine, Ecstasy etc. act on it. (Did I post that link already??) In the 60s LSD was widely prescribed as a psychiatric drug, and people who claimed it was dangerous were said to be liars. Eventually the drug company (Lilly I think) had to withdraw it from the market because it was too dangerous. So they just keep coming out with newer versions of what they already had and marketing them differently.

I'm not sure how the drug companies came up with their weird theories on what works for depression but clearly their advertising is working. These drugs are all in the top 10 prescribed drugs in America and they have a lot of us hooked and under the influence.

Numerous people have had their criminal court cases mitigated by the fact that they were involuntarily intoxicated due to a lack of informed consent about the true effects of the drugs. (check out a few at www.breggin.com)

If you remember the Wesbecker case - he shot his coworkers - the Ely Lilly company paid off his attorney and he was convicted. Once the judge found this out about the corruption he changed the verdict from guilty to a mistrial or something like that.

you can look up these facts on all the websites I mentioned before, including www.breggin.com, www.drugawareness.org, www.sssristories.com

Phil Hartman's wife was under the influence of Zoloft when she shot and killed him and herself. Anna Nicole Smith's son recently died from serotonin syndrome.

Millions of people around the world are suffering on these drugs. It's your choice to use them but please be careful and if you have an adverse reaction please don't forget what has happened to others so you can make the best choice for yourelf.

Recently I had my second baby, at home. No PPD or anything of the sort. This reconfirms the fact that the Zoloft caused months of suffering. A lot of women are probably out there stopping breastfeeding and trying anything BUT discontinuing harmful medications.

Just get informed so you can make the best choice for you.

 

[Snowdrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxwill129 So what should moms do who have PPD and are hurting their children and natural things just aren't working?

Don't do something else that is likely not to work and is potentially dangerous.

Or at least don't insist that when "the natural things" don't work that drugs will. The drugs don't work well most of the time, at all much of the time, and are dangerous some of the time.

Drugs are just one approach, and one I, after lots and lots of experience and reading, think is almost always the wrong approach.

 

[mamaboobaAES]

http://uuhsc.utah.edu/poison/healthpros/utox/Vol4_No4.pdf#search='serotonin%20syndrome'

There's the link explaining Serotonin Syndrome. Very interesting.

 

[BetsyNY]

I've been taking Zoloft for ten years. Works for me. Just wanted to add my .02.

 

[Bartock]

So will i be okay, i stopped taking my Celexa and feel super angry and bitchy, and dizzy and sick just totally yucky.

 

[BetsyNY]

Have you talked with a doctor about stopping? Suddenly stopping taking your meds can cause withdrawal.

 

[Bartock]

Nope, i was on 40mg, then cut them in half for about a week then just stopped, My doc has been on mat leave till just recentlyand I refuse to see anyone else, but I see her on thursday.

 

[Nisupulla]

The myth is that a lot of people will benefit while only a few will suffer.
How do you figure?

Andrea Yates was under the influence of many psychiatric drugs at once which caused her psychosis.
Come again?

Withdrawal can be worse than the original disease.
Huh?

The guy who shot a bunch of people at my brother's church (Wedgewood Baptist) in Fort Worth in 1999 was taking Prozac.
Prior to taking the Prozac he was just fine?

I strongly urge you to consider the truth...
You haven't presented any truth here to consider.

LSD, PCP, meth, cocaine, Ecstasy etc. are serotonin reuptake inhibitors?

Numerous people have had their criminal court cases mitigated by the fact that they were involuntarily intoxicated due to a lack of informed consent about the true effects of the drugs.
And many have committed "suicide by cop" without taking anything.

Your whole premise would be absurdly comical, except that you seem to actually believe it.

 

[BetsyNY]

:

I'm sorry for your bad experience, but the fact is that anti-depressant medication has helped thousands of women make it through the darkness.

 

[Snowdrift]

The hostility to the OP here is really astounding. I think we might need a forum for "The Case Against Anti-Depressants." Most of us understand that we might want to avoid mucking up our immune systems with vaxes and our guts with abx, but consistently those who speak of the dangers of mucking up our heads with foreign chemicals are treated with skepticism and hostility.

I think any post that urges people to get informed before making a decision is sound one.

Personally, I'd be interested in some links. A foaf is having some bad experiences with Paxil just now but has been convinced that it is the only way and that it is totally safe. It clearly is not for this person.

I'd love some documented information on heightened suicidality in people on Paxil especially as well as the other things the OP mentioned--it could really help out a friend.

 

[User101]

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