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Hi, Im wondering about something that I saw on Nanny 911... one of the nannys implemented a system of posative reinforcement with marbles: each kid got a jar full of marbles and if they did something naughty or against the rules the lost a marble and if they did something good they got a marble. At the end of the week if the marbles were at a certain level they all got some sort of reward. It seemed to work really well with that familys kids on the show... Im wondering if anyone here has tried it and if it worked out?

if anyone has tried it, how many/much marbles did you start out with and how did you end up judging if they got the reward or not? what kind of rewards did you use. thanks for suggestions
 

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I could be wrong, but I really dont believe nanny 911 is GD friendly.

I dont view GD as a jar of marbles to ge a prize at the end of the week.

Children should be taught "how to act" for lack of a better term for the rewards it has in and of itself. Not to earn a prize. When we grow up, we learn that not acting a certain way at our place of employment, etc.. has real consequences and behaving a certain way is expected, not rewarded.

just my 2c

so, what are your problems and what are you trying to work on with our kids that you want to use the marbles for?


Amy
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amybw

Children should be taught "how to act" for lack of a better term for the rewards it has in and of itself. Not to earn a prize. When we grow up, we learn that not acting a certain way at our place of employment, etc.. has real consequences and behaving a certain way is expected, not rewarded.

just my 2c

so, what are your problems and what are you trying to work on with our kids that you want to use the marbles for?


Amy
Wondering how do you teach a child how to act. had a long toalk at mom night out tonight and i realize i am not a good mom i guess. My kids run all over me. I dont hit, spank, throw htem in time out. SO how doyou teach a child how to act??
 

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I sued the jar of marbles for my Potty training resistant child. it did work for a short term but not as i hoped. I dont watch nanny 911 alhtough hubby does sometimes, and he tells me about it. we actaully learned on there about how bad it is for him to come home and discipline hte kids for soemthing I did earlier in the day as it was undermining my authority.

good luck
what are you having issues with.
 

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That system would not be something my family would go for. We don't believe in the whole "reward/punish" thing that it promotes.
 

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I have always had a bad feeling about this kind of system of shaping behavior, because the consequences are so removed from the actual behavior. When I was in third grade the teacher had a system kind of like this. Not with marbles, but with a chart where you got checks and minuses for various things, and at the end of the week a certain score would get you a prize (a special art class, instead of doing seatwork in the regular classroom). I NEVER got to go to the art class. I don't even know what I did wrong. I never did anything BIG wrong, but I often forgot to bring my homework, and I guess I did little impulsive things like talking when I wasn't supposed to. My point is, in a whole YEAR of having this behavior modification program, it didn't work to help me behave more the way I was expected to, even though I REALLY wanted to go to the art class and in most ways I was an agreeable, eager to please child. I just wish the teacher would have found another way to work with me on what the issues were (which are still kind of vague in my mind now, as to what exactly my "misbehavior" was).

Honestly, about the art class, I think there weren't enough seats/resources to go around and that's why they decided to limit attendance by making it a reward for good behavior--they knew there would be some kids every week who wouldn't go. But it's left me resentful for 25 YEARS now so I don't plan to do anything remotely like it with my own child.

My biggest problem as a kid was simply not knowing what behavior was expected of me. I think it would have helped a lot if a teacher/parent would have simply TALKED to me, like "This is what I need you to do/not do...what do you think a consequence should be...how can we help you remember?" You know, an approach that respected me as a thoughtful person who actually WANTED to do the right thing.
 

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I haven't see this Nanny show, but I'm with the others who don't like reward systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got_Cloth
SO how doyou teach a child how to act??
It would be easier to answer this question if I had a specific situation to talk about. Basically though, we do it through example, and talking. It's not something that happens in a day or a week (I think rewards and punishments "work" faster but I don't like what they teach.)

I'm sorry the mom's night out made you feel like a bad mom--do YOU believe you are or is that someone else's opinion? I'm sure people have thought that of me, but it's just because they don't share my same values.

Do you have an example we could talk about?
 

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i think it's easy to convince ourselves that we're bad parents if our child misbehaves at the very moment that other chilren are not misbehaving. but that has nothing to do with the long-term, and it has nothing to do with our skills as parents. all children "misbehave". that's what they do, becuase they're learning. sometimes others will see your kids doing it, other times they won't. i'd bet my life on the fact that those other moms' kids misbehave as well...they just didn't happen to when you were there.

i agree with the other women about the iffiness of the reward/punishment system. in the long-term, it doesn't help children understand the *why* behind things or the actual consequences of certain actions. if they drop a dish and it breaks, the "consequence" isn't that the lose a marble. the consequence is that they've broken something that was important to someone, that was useful to someone, that can't be repaired, etc...and they need to learn that *that* is the problem in and of itself, not that a marble will be taken, kwim? it goes back to Kohlberg's stages of moral development, I suppose...I don't love kohlberg and i think he was rather elitist and sexist. that being said, he did outline a decent system for some people...the reward/punishment behavioral modification strategies will never get kids past the initial phase of moral development, where they avoid things simply to avoid getting punished.

for the fuzzier areas of morality (which is where most things in life are), it won't be as obvious what the reward/punishment is...we, as parents, can't think of rules for everything, kwim? if they learn not to touch a certain porcelain figure bc they'll be punished if they do (with something abstract like the marble thing) and we don't specifically state the other things in the house that are off limits, the child may not be able to extrapolate those rules as easily..."illogical" rewards/punishments make it very difficult for little minds to generalize to other similar situations.

anyway, that's my novel. LOL!!!
 

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because clearly i didn't say enough (LMAO) i wanted to agree with Joan about others probably seeing me as the doormat mom or as someone who isn't "in control" of her child. they are interpreting my actions negatively, because they probably think it's me being weak. i see it differently. i see it as me squelching my own ego somewhat in order to foster creativity, autonomy, and decision making skills in my son. i'm an attentive mom, but i probably don't "attend" to everything that other moms would. that may be perceived as letting my child "walk all over me"...i just don't see it that way. my child isn't walking all over me. i'm stepping aside to let him walk where he wants to, and i'm there if it gets dangerous or scary or sad. i choose my battles wisely and don't give in on certain things. i just don't see the need to fight *every* battle. what fun is that???
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by michelemiller
... i see it as me squelching my own ego somewhat in order to foster creativity, autonomy, and decision making skills in my son. i'm an attentive mom, but i probably don't "attend" to everything that other moms would. that may be perceived as letting my child "walk all over me"...i just don't see it that way. my child isn't walking all over me. i'm stepping aside to let him walk where he wants to, and i'm there if it gets dangerous or scary or sad. i choose my battles wisely and don't give in on certain things. i just don't see the need to fight *every* battle. what fun is that???

 

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We tried something somewhat similar a couple of summers ago when my stepdaughters were visiting. They were sharing a room and having lots of conflict because the younger one would get into the older one's stuff (climb up to her bunk during naptime, break things [e.g. mush her lipbalm, tear her stickers]). We did a little calendar where at the end of the day if she hadn't messed with her big sister's stuff she got a sticker, and when she had 5 stickers we would go on a shopping trip together to use the spending money she had brought. On the one hand, she enjoyed the incentive and it helped her 'keep track' of her behaviour (I'll go up to my sister's bunk - oh wait, there's a reason I shouldn't do that!).

However, I wouldn't do it again. Although we tried to present it in positive terms, she processed it (with her sister's encouragement
- not unexpected, if we had been thinking) as a calendar to keep track of whether she was 'bad'. Actually her big sister made up an alternate calendar for keeping track of how 'bad' the little sister was, and made a big deal of posting it herself - which we had her take down, but we were really uncomfortable with anything that could have the effect of setting up a system where one kid is the 'good' kid and the other one isn't, and somehow seeming to 'measure' that.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Got_Cloth
had a long toalk at mom night out tonight and i realize i am not a good mom i guess. My kids run all over me. I dont hit, spank, throw htem in time out. SO how doyou teach a child how to act??
Urgh! Be careful of those "mom nights out" particularly if other moms also did CIO, scheduled feedings, etc. It's always nice to vent and get ideas and solutions, but best to talk with people who share the same overall outlook on parenting that you do. Nanny also want babies to sleep by themselves and sit in naughty chairs and other weird things.

I think of it as - what's the relationship that I would like to have with my daughter long-term? I would like her to respect me, sure - but I also want her to be able to talk with me openly, share her feelings, and express herself. I think many times the discipline springs from the relationship.

Maybe post a separate thread about your exact issue - and compare the advice you get there to that of Nanny/moms night out? It might be more compatible with how you feel overall about parenting.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by michelemiller
my child isn't walking all over me. i'm stepping aside to let him walk where he wants to, and i'm there if it gets dangerous or scary or sad. i choose my battles wisely and don't give in on certain things. i just don't see the need to fight *every* battle. what fun is that???
I totally agree!
 

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The marbles thing sounds like something my good friend used with her child who has autism. He responds really well to a reverse-reward system. They used this with him at bedtime. i don't think I would want to use it with a typically developing child, though. I think those nanny shows use methods that work if a child is really in a crisis and needs a very clear guideline, very fast. It's emergency parenting. I don't want to be doing emergency parenting!

Melissa, you asked how you teach a child how to act. One important way is by modeling. If you behave in a certain way--for example, if you are routinely polite--your child will learn to act that way. Of course, my two year old is in a big parroting phase so I am really aware of this! I ask people's names and say, "Hi, Melissa!" in a friendly way and I hear a little voice saying "Hi Melissa!" I say "thank you!" and he echoes "thank you!"


Another thing that helps you teach your child how to act is being close by and observing his or her behavior. If you are there, you can interrupt unsafe or unkind or otherwise unwise behavior as it starts. You can redirect to help your child get what shhe or he wants (broadly conceived) without getting into trouble.

I agree that it's not a good idea to "fight every battle". Let them live and figure things out!
 

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We did the jar. It was one of my most eye opening experiences with my four children. It became a nightmare from the get go. My jar was supposed to be making my kids less complaining and more grateful.
: Just writing that I cringe because it should have been so obvious it wasn't going to fly. It ended up making everyone so focused on who should be taking marbles out that our house turned into a police state and no one was happy or very grateful for that matter either. After forcing myself to believe in this method for weeks, we used all our marbles for some marble painting and chucked the jar amid much cheering. I realized at that moment how dangerous bribes and coercion can be. For the record I started the dreadful jar after a casual chat with some Moms at church. I still keep that marble painting up to show myself how easy it is to turn on ourselves as mothers and how detrimental it can be. I'm sure you are an amazng mother. Childhood is when our children are able to get all their "kinks" out. The fact that you love them during this time and allow them a freedom of expression shows what an amazing mother you are.
 

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Just want to say....I don't usually watch tv, but I have seen parts of that Nanny 911 show twice and I think its horrible! Especially that one on them taking away the two childrens binky's and having them cry all night! no I don't think I'd be taking advice from a show like that. Also I feel bad that you feel your a bad mom after a "mom's night out". That's awful...I'm sure your not a bad mom...you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.


Sorry I don't have much advice otherwise I need my own help :LOL

RayRay
 

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Lots of people have already spoken about this, but in my mind, this statement is the perfect example of what's wrong with that show:

"one of the nannys implemented a system of posative reinforcement with marbles"

No she didn't, she implemented a system of rewards/punishments with marbles. Positive reinforcement is called that, not as in positive=good, but positive=adding something. Just putting marbles in a jar until it added up for every "good" behavior or words, etc. would be a positive reinforcement system, with NONE taken out for "bad" behavior.

But taking them out again shows the children that no matter how good you try to be, if you mess up, we're going to take back what you earned for trying hard. So why bother to try? The whole thing becomes negative.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PikkuMyy
But taking them out again shows the children that no matter how good you try to be, if you mess up, we're going to take back what you earned for trying hard. So why bother to try? The whole thing becomes negative.
YES!!!
 

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Well, I 've done this a lot as an elementary school teacher with 1st through 5th graders but I don't think I would try it with much younger than 4 or 5. Would they really understand what it meant? With around 5 I might start with a very small jar and a very small goal, say 5 marbles and a treat. I think it is important for them to know what they are working towards and have a say in choosing it and have the reasons they get and loose marbles be very specific. It is even better if they are specific to one activity, say cleaning up their room. Start slow and then work towards all day being cooperative.

This is really a positive discipline tactic. Have you tried the book positive discipline for preschoolers by Jane nelson? I could be getting title wrong but it is in the positive discipline series.
 

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Something else that hasn't been addressed here- rewards and punishment foster a selfishness in the child that I'm not comfortable with. "What will happen to me if I write on the wall with this crayon?" instead of "Daddy will have to scrub a long time to get this off" etc. It's not right to hit people because I will get hit or punished in some way rather than it's not ok to hurt anyone. Kids are already selfish enough IMO.
No need to encourage that. Much better to work things out and explain, explain, explain how the world works and why certain behavior is expected.

ps. I didn't just think this up myself- read "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn. My favorite GD book yet.
 
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