[richella]

I'm thinking about taking my cats off commercial food and putting them on a homemade diet. I can easily get grass-fed beef and/or probably chickens raised in a yard by someone I know, but I don't want to cook it in my house. Come to think of it, I don't really want to cook it at all, though I don't have a problem with the cats eating meat. I'm wondering if I can find somebody who would be willing to do it for us. . . brainstorming options. Anybody been through this?

 

[MoonStarFalling]

It was really rough when I started making my own. I very nearly puked the first time I made chicken stock. It got a lot easier with time though. I just close my nose and do it. When I'm short on time I just make puree veggies and veggie stock to pour over their (good quality) dry food. That seems to keep them healthier than just dry food at least.

If I had extra cash though I'd totally pay a friend to make it for me!

 

[Equuskia]

why cook it? Why not give it to your cats raw?

 

[Sailor]

Yep, no reason to cook it.

Just feed it raw. Much easier, IMO.

 

[richella]

Well, I like the idea of adding stock etc to commercial food. I'm already adding an herbal infusion and nutri yeast, that would be another step. OTOH I'm starting to think the problem is not just absence of nutrients but presence of whatever nasty stuff they put in the food.

If you give it raw, how much do you do to it? Currently they won't eat raw eggs, but will eat them cooked if I cut it into bites and mix it into their usual food. How small do you need to chop it? If there's pureeing involved, might be a drawback for me.

And no, I don't think I can afford this at all, but we're so freakin broke these days and debt up to our ears, no, debt over our heads, I don't think I can afford to feed my kids either, but I still do.

Any formulas?
thanks, everyone!

 

[Sailor]

This is a good website that really helped me out.

Raw Fed Cats

It depends on what area you're in, of course. But, especially with a cat, I've found it's cheaper to feed raw than kibble.

However, this could be because, though I follow a vegan diet, my partner eats meat. So, he shares his meat with my dog. Thus, the cost isn't really all that much. I imagine this could be different if you're in a 100% vegan household.

I get a lot of things for free, though. For instance, organ meats ... those are not that popular any more. So, I often get organs - especially beef hearts - for free. I also get a lot of bones for free. Chicken necks - free. I use those for treats or "snacks" more than meals. Either way, it helps to get friendly with your butcher. Or find a butcher with whom to get friendly. If you get really friendly with them - they'll cut it all up for you as well (I mean the free stuff).

 

[Baby_Cakes]

So...maybe I'm off base here, but how do you guys get your head around using other animals like this? Doesn't it conflict with your ethics for being veg*an? I'm just not able to separate my feelings for my cat, whom I adore, and my feelings for other animals, who I believe have the right not to be killed for food.

 

[BedHead]

The thing with cats is that they're obligate carnivores, and were designed to eat meat. Even if they eat kibble they're eating meat/meat products.

I'm not veg, but I feed my cats raw food made with Instincts TC

 

[richella]

Baby_Cakes, I have put some thought into this question. There are people on both sides of the vegetarian cat question, but I haven't seen any hard evidence to convince me either way. I do think it is ethically acceptable for cats to eat meat, though I have questioned whether I want to give it to them. Over the years, taking into consideration various factors such as availability, my time, their health, vet recommendations, and price, we eventually settled on a commercial pet food, but I've never been happy with the quality. At this time I want to give them what is most natural for a cat, which would be more meat than anything else (though I do believe it is appropriate for cats to eat some plant-based foods). I'm pretty sure it will be grass-fed beef and/or free-range chickens from someone I know.

I used to think it would be better to feed them veg, and let them hunt any meat they wanted to eat. But, while cats hunt instinctively, killing is a learned skill that many cats don't have, esp. if they were weaned young. (Their mothers teach them.) Mine can catch mice and small birds, but I've never seen them take a bite out of any animal they killed (or mortally wounded.) They'll leave it dead on the doorstep and maybe lick it now and then for weeks. These days I usually discourage them from stalking birds on the basis that I'd rather they eat the animals that die for them, even if I have to be the one to serve them up.

I do appreciate your asking the question.

 

[MoonStarFalling]

One recipe I used was from the new natural cat, a great natural remedy book for cats. The recipe cost me about $10 a month for two cats. Lots of pureeing of meat and veggies but I only had to do it once a month.

When I raw feed I just give them organic ground beef and pureed veggies. It's easier but doesn't contain the grains. You can choose what you want to include in their diet. Affording organic meat for mine just isn't a possibility on a full time basis since I have three cats, a dog and a snake right now.

There IS good quality kibble out there. I'm okay giving that plus extras when I have them available.

 

[Sailor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes So...maybe I'm off base here, but how do you guys get your head around using other animals like this? Doesn't it conflict with your ethics for being veg*an? I'm just not able to separate my feelings for my cat, whom I adore, and my feelings for other animals, who I believe have the right not to be killed for food.

There is a lot of evidence that shows how swiftly a cat's health deteriorates on a vegan diet. They are obligate carnivores, as someone mentioned. I mean, you only need to look at their digestive tract to see how impossible it is for them to thrive on a vegan diet.

They NEED meat. And, by not feeding meat, the cat is being harmed. So, ethically, if you don't feed meat to a carnivore, you harm an animal, if you feed meat you harm a different animal.

Also, ethically speaking, a cat would NEVER choose a vegan diet willingly. So, the way I see it - the cat is choosing what diet they want to follow. Personally, I don't believe in foisting my diet onto other members of the animal kingdom. Especially carnivores.

Personally, I eat a vegan diet for my health and well being. As well as for the environment. I have absolutely NO issue with my partner (or my dog) eating meat as their sources are from sustainable, organic farms.

So, feeding a carnivore doesn't go against my own ethics.

Obviously, though, this is different if a person went vegan for the animals. In which case, I really don't recommend owning carnivorous pets!

Re: domestic cats hunting - these are one of the worst destroyers of the eco-system. A domesticated cat will not hunt ONLY when it's hungry. They will hunt for fun and for play. So, they will kill far more than they need to survive. In a matter of months, they can affect the population of birds in the area.

Cats are really cruel in their food play, too. I don't know if anyone has ever watched a domesticated cat play with a bird or mouse. It's certainly a lesson in torture!

 

[Baby_Cakes]

Thanks for respectfully answering my question. It's my understanding that though cats are carnivores, the amino acid they require is taurine. In most (if not all) commercial cat foods, the taurine is synthetic and is added back into the food. This isn't "natural" either. But I personally couldn't kill an animal for my cat to eat, nor would I be able to use an already killed animal (from whatever source) for her to eat. I just couldn't do it.

I do agree that cats would never and could never choose a vegan or vegetarian diet, but I disagree that they need meat. They need nutrients only found in meat. I personally think a vegan diet that supplements those needs is equivalent to diet of commercial cat food with synthetic taurine.

I don't know if fresh meat is "better" than those options, but for our family it isn't an option at all.

 

[Equuskia]

The reason why cats and other obligate carnivores need meat is the way their digestive system is designed. Most mammals need the roughly the same nutrients, just in different proportions. Let's compare a cow and a lion, an obligate herbavore and an obligate carnivore respectively:

Mouth:
Cow: Flat teeth to grind plant material. Long muscular tongue to grasp stalk and other plants. Jaw moves from side to side to further grind food. All day to chew it.

Lion: Sharp teeth to rip and shred. Thin raspy tongue to hold on to meat. Swallows food quickly and in chunks, not very well chewed. No side to side movement in the jaw.

Stomach:
Cow: Large 4 chambered stomach filled with bacteria and micro-organisms to digest plant material. Regurgitates food to mash it down further with flat teeth. Chambered stomach full of folds to help absorb maximum amount of nutrients.

Lion: Simple, short digestive system (in fact, cats in general have the shortest digestive system amongst mammals). No mechanisms for breaking down cellulose. Stomach contains folds but much less than a cow.

In short, meat is very easy to digest. Since carnivores have a short digestive tract, they eat meat to obtain needed nutrients. Herbavores graze all day because it takes a long time for plant material to digest. This is why such animals have a lot of girth around the middle compared to carnivores, to house a very large, complex digestive system. Without it, herbavores wouldn't be able to digest plant material, since most animals do not produce cellulase, the enzyme responsible for digesting plant material. THis is an enzyme produced mostly by bateria, fungi and protozoa.

This is why carnivores' health deteriotes on a non meat based diet. They simply do not have the "equipment" to digest plant based material. Herbavores have already converted that pplant material into a digestable food, meat.