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I went for five years in the mid-90s, but my partner and I stopped going for several reasons: 1) unsupportive of bisexuals (as I am), 2) "womyn-born-womyn" policy excluded several of our friends, 3) many sub-communities are marginalized. We decided our $$ was better spent elsewhere. Now I have a male partner, and we prefer to attend events we can enjoy together.

Having said all that, I appreciate the value of women-only space, I really had a fabulous time, and if I have girl children, I may very well bring them back with some queer friends. My best friend is a lesbian and she is TTC right now. The girlspace is so cool! =)
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mplsmom
It is not a place for men, or those who choose to live their lives as men.
Apparently, it could be. I know FTMs who are welcomed at the door (because they were "born womyn") and I know MTFs who still feel marginalized at Festival, even though they "pass" very well.

I personally felt marginalized by the women who said unkind things to women in leather... by the women who picketed the punk rock group Tribe 8 with hatred in their voice... by the women who said time and again that "bisexuals aren't *really* queer..." by the pain of women who had to leave the festival grounds to nurse their 5-year-old boys sequestered in Brother Sun.

Apparently MWMF is not a celebration of all women. I cannot support that.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Denise
I am going pregnant this year. I will be 6 months pregnant by then. I would really really like to connect to Michigan loving moms out there. My partner and i have been together 10 years and consider Michigan a time to renew and gain center in ourselves.
I think it could be different for me if I had a female partner.

I do have a daughter and I plan to bring her in the future, at least a few times, so she can experience Michigan as a young child. It was so profound for me at 19, I can only imagine what a difference it would make to have those experiences be "normal" growing up.


She's only going to be five months old this August, so I think I'll wait another year or two.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fatgirlmom
i mean, on that note, are you against MWMF's Women of Color tent? shouldn't white women be able to go to that tent because they are women too?
Not at all. I see a big difference between providing a safe space WITHIN a womenspace for a certain kind of women, and excluding one kind of woman entirely from the festival. Yes, I'd love to see a TransWoman tent at Michigan!

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Would you be cool with all women attending a space for trans-women only because we are all women?
I don't know of any spaces for transwomen only.

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oh, and as for F2Ms, why would a man want to go to a women's festival?!? that's not about "letting them in" that's about self-selecting. and if someone self selects to go to a women's festival, they clearly don't consider themselves a man.
No, you don't understand -- F2Ms *would* be allowed into the festival. Because, according to the policy, they were "born womyn." On the other hand, a transwoman who has lived 20 years of her life or more as a woman would *not* be allowed in. This bizzare reasoning was what convinced me to stay away after 5 years of joyful attendance.

I want to allow all women to define themselves, not to allow anyone else to define who they are.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fatgirlmom
mamajama -- um, NO, MTF women are not BORN women, hence transition, and voice training, and for some, major facial/cranial surgery. if MTFs were born female, there would be no need for surgery at all. in fact, if MTF were born female, there would be no transsexuality at all. that's ridiculous for you even to say.
My interpretation of what mamajama said was that MTF women feel like they need to go through all the surgery and outside changes to get the world to see them the way they have always seen themselves on the inside.

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i ask you again: do you think white people should be allowed in POC only spaces because we are all people? do you think separate spaces are EVER acceptable?
Well, I appreciate that Womyn's Fest is a women-only space. It would be a very different experience if men were invited. I just have a hard time with the festi-planners' attitudes about transwomen.

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specifically, do you think that WBW is inherently unacceptable? do you think there is no lived experience differential between transwomen and women who have always been perceived as girls?
I agree it is different from being raised a girl. But I think there are more differences among the experience of girls than there are between girls and transgendered women. I would rather we find the commonalities among all women than make divisions and say, You are not a "real" woman simply because you were not raised as a girl. Transwomen who pass as women are experiencing the same sexism every day as you or I are.

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and nubiamama, um, yes i DO understand. i've gone to festival for over a decade, so i actually know how it works from experience and from thinking about and considering BOTH sides of this discussion from people on both sides of the issue. have you?
I went to festival for 5 joyous years, starting in 1994. I stopped going because my partner was beginning to deal with her own trans identity, and she felt excluded by the women who had always accepted her before. I also heard a lot of negative talk about bi women and this bothered me (as a bi woman).

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as for your statement that F2Ms would be allowed, the festival is for women who were born as, raised as, and currently live as women. all three. F2Ms aren't women. they are men. and if an F2M comes to a festival FOR WOMEN, they are either totally oblivious to privilege of taking up space over women's bodies or desires or they don't idenitfy as a man. it isn't the people's festival. it is a festival for WOMEN BORN WOMEN. and for a man to barge into women's space is bullshit.
I don't know any FTMs who would want to be at Festival. I'm just saying that FTMs were "born women," according to your definition. And this angry reaction I'm hearing from you is exactly the reason I don't feel comfortable supporting MWMF.

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also, there are loads of trans only spaces. www.strap-on.org has one. should all women be able to go there simply because we are all women?
I was considering physical spaces, not virtual ones.

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MWMF doesn't question gender because it is the only place on earth where girls/women who DON'T conform to what girls/women are supposed to be get to celebrate their own beauty. that means bearded women, butch women, etc. being a woman who was raised her whole life being told she wasn't "acting" as she should, or being denied access to things because she is a girl is a lot different than being told to act "more" like a boy.
So, then, what about the girls who decide, as adults, they want to be outside the dual gender paradigm and be trans-gender? Are they not welcome because they go "a little too far?"

I'm really glad Festival meets your needs. But it doesn't meet mine.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Denise
I even thought of doing a workshop or two this year. I did two last year and really enjoyed the experience.
That's great, Denise. I always enjoyed the workshops most. What were yours about?
 

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Wow!

Michigan Women's Music Festival ends policy of discrimination against Transwomen

After 15 years of controversy, supporters welcome trans women to 'the land'

HART, MICHIGAN - The Michigan Women's Music Festival began admitting openly trans (transgender/transsexual) women last week, bringing success to a longstanding struggle by trans activists both inside and outside
the festival.

More here: www.camp-trans.org

Did anyone go? How was it?

I am so there next year.
 
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