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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. I am planning an hbac in 3 weeks or so. I am also writing a paper on elective cesarean sections (c-sections that weren't medically necessary) and am wondering what women who have gone through them have felt about it in retrospect.<br>
Or, does anyone know the statistics of ob's willing to perform unnecessary c-sections??<br>
I can't seem to find anything on the web about it.<br><br>
Thanks.
 

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Here's the thing. As I discovered after my second c-section, they call everything not an emergency section an elective section. So this is a case where the statistics are, IMO, <i>hugely</i> misleading. My second c-section was for a footling breech. I was not offered the option of a vaginal birth and in all honesty was not comfortable with the thought of attempting it with that type of breech, but nontheless my section was marked down as "elective." (There were 3 choices: primary, emergent, and elective.) I'll tell you, I flipped out when I saw that. I was so upset over it!<br><br>
I'm sorry; I know this isn't really what you're asking about. I wish you luck in writing your paper, but I doubt the type of woman to have a medically unneccessary c-section is the type to hang out at a place like Mothering. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> We do have a handful of women who have had elective c-sections, as in they chose to have a c-section and were not pressured into them, but if you ask they will tell you they believe them to be medically necessary. For some women, <i>any</i> risk of rupture is too much. And I respect that, because risk tolerance is a very personal thing, and far be it for any of us (IMNSHO) to tell her she should have been willing to take the risk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

but I doubt the type of woman to have a medically unneccessary c-section is the type to hang out at a place like Mothering. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. thanks for your reply.<br><br>
I keep reading about women who want to have a cs to avoid the pain of labor-as if recovering from a cs isn't painful!!<br><br>
So I am writing my paper to argue against a c-section for the main purpose of avoiding labor pain and also to avoid things like urinary incontinence and fecal incontinence-some experts have linked both with other medical interventions during labor like episiotomies and use of forceps. From what I have been reading, the potential risks to both mom and baby of an "unnecessary" c-section just aren't worth it.
 

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I suggest looking around at <a href="http://www.obgyn.net/" target="_blank">http://www.obgyn.net/</a> and seeing if they have any information on it.<br><br>
There's a publicly viewable mailing list there for birth professionals that I once spent hours surfing (looking for something else, but then it was so interesting ...) and some of the OBs on the list talked about patients who wanted elective C-sections and what they'd do.<br><br>
Just btw (this is not exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure), I read two different interesting ethical questions there about elective C-sections:<br>
1. A woman pregnant with an anencephalic baby who requested an immediate emergency c/s if the baby showed any distress, because she wanted to hold her baby while it was still alive.<br>
2. A woman whose first child was born in a traumatic vaginal delivery with forceps and had cerebral palsy, who wanted a c/s to avoid any similar complications with her second child.<br><br>
I think there is a gray area of women who want "elective" c-sections for reasons that are personal and/or medical, rather than just because they don't want to experience labor. I don't know if you're interested in addressing that or not.
 

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Well, my c/s was absolutely not medically necessary, and also absolutely not voluntary... I probably don't fit what you're after either!<br><br>
I don't know what they put in my chart. They wanted me to consent to elective, I refused and insisted on going into labour to give my breech baby every possible chance to turn, and she didn't, so they rushed around panicked trying to get ready while I puffed through my pushes. I still find that amusing in a very ironic kind of way.
 

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There are two reasons in my records for my second section: fetal intolerance of labor (in my case, fetal intolerance of a CST), and elective repeat cesarean. Those are the only categories in the computer program that even remotely fit, and they don't fit all that well.<br><br>
As far as elective section goes: well, are you talking primary or repeat? Repeat elective sections do have a certain attraction for a lot of people: you know what to expect, you know the date of your birth, your own provider will be there, you can more easily schedule child care in advance, and frankly they're pretty damn simple. These were not persuasive reasons for me, but I can see the appeal.<br><br>
Primary elective sections I jsut don't get, and I had two of the easiest section recoveries in the world.
 

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Plenty of mainstream forums have long and involved discussions about why c-secs are being chosen and it's a horrifying morass of misinformation. Terribly sad. I'm sure you can think of some to go to <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks everyone!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pookel</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7261330"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I suggest looking around at <a href="http://www.obgyn.net/" target="_blank">http://www.obgyn.net/</a> and seeing if they have any information on it.<br><br>
There's a publicly viewable mailing list there for birth professionals that I once spent hours surfing (looking for something else, but then it was so interesting ...) and some of the OBs on the list talked about patients who wanted elective C-sections and what they'd do.<br><br>
Just btw (this is not exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure), I read two different interesting ethical questions there about elective C-sections:<br>
1. A woman pregnant with an anencephalic baby who requested an immediate emergency c/s if the baby showed any distress, because she wanted to hold her baby while it was still alive.<br>
2. A woman whose first child was born in a traumatic vaginal delivery with forceps and had cerebral palsy, who wanted a c/s to avoid any similar complications with her second child.<br><br>
I think there is a gray area of women who want "elective" c-sections for reasons that are personal and/or medical, rather than just because they don't want to experience labor. I don't know if you're interested in addressing that or not.</div>
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I just wanted to say that my cousin had a VERY traumatic vaginal birth experience with her first. She ended up with a fistula, along with many other serious complications (the baby was fine, though.). She didn't even want anymore children after it and took a VERY long time to recover. Her second child was a scheduled c/s and I honestly don't blame her.
 

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A friend of ours had a c-section for baby #1, and cs for baby #2, totally elective.<br>
I really couldn't relate to it... I think it was a control thing for her, she wanted to know when, to plan, etc.<br>
I think she has different feelings about her body... she also breastfed for a very short time. 6 weeks I think.<br>
I find it hard not to judge...<br>
otoh, she is a very loving dedicated mother to her children.
 

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I had an ERCS for DD#1. I feel it was the right decision for me at that time and have no regrets. All throughout that pregnancy I had a strong feeling that I'd rupture if I attempted a VBAC, so I scheduled the surgery. Was it fear or intuition? Who knows?<br><br>
I had a VBA2C with my 3rd pregnancy.
 

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I had an elective c/s with ds2 because of fear from first traumatic labor, and a complete lack of informed consent. I had no idea I was actually taking a 3x higher risk of maternal death by choosing surgery. Not a single word about it my whole pregnancy, the OB certainly didn't share any info about the risks of the two choices. True, I should have looked into it and due to my own hangups, I didn't. My OB's idea of informed consent sounded like this:<br><br>
OB: So, are you thinking of a vaginal birth this time?<br>
Me: Um, oh, I don't know, probably not...<br>
OB: Ok.<br><br>
End of conversation. Informed? I wasn't. I am now.<br><br>
Right now I'm pg and planning a hba2c.
 

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Yeah, go to babycenter.com's forums... there are WAY too many women there who are electing cesareans for the STUPIDEST reasons (It hurts less (HAH!), it's safer for the baby (HAHAHAHA!), the baby will be smarter (Haha? HUH?), I don't want my vajayjay torn (sigh))... I've attempted and failed at "educating" them about studies that have been conducted, and even common knowledge among practically everybody (c/s doesn't hurt. there's no recovery period and they can have sex again wtihin a week. HUH?????).<br><br>
I think some women are just crazy. I've concluded that. ARGH.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Plenty of mainstream forums have long and involved discussions about why c-secs are being chosen and it's <b>a horrifying morass of misinformation.</b></td>
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(Bolding mine) Absolutely right. Well put. And it <i>is</i> incredibly sad. I can't handle reading such things. It's depressing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
I had an "ERC" with my 2nd because I was not given informed consent at all. I was told that most likely I would rupture, & that she (the OB) just had a patient die in front of her from one. This was in 1998, I had no computer to do my own research, & I trusted that Dr.'s knew what they were talking about & gave you the facts.
 

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My c-section is listed as elective. It was scheduled and I had no labor. I "chose" to have this c-section because both my midwife and the doctor she worked with told me my baby was too big for me to give birth to, the fact that I was not in labor (past their due date for me) was a sign, the ultrasound showed she was >4000g, and the doctor told me I had a 20% chance of experiencing shoulder dystocia if I gave birth vaginally and that this could harm or even kill my baby. I did not want it, I cried and sobbed about it, and I have had PTSD and PPD because of it.<br>
But, it is listed as "elective" on my medical records.
 

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You'll want to head on over to <a href="http://www.electivecaesarean.com/" target="_blank">http://www.electivecaesarean.com/</a><br><br>
Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pampered_mom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7270633"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You'll want to head on over to <a href="http://www.electivecaesarean.com/" target="_blank">http://www.electivecaesarean.com/</a><br><br>
Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.</div>
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My blood pressure would go through the roof if I went over there. I hate seeing so many women being deceived by their (s)care providers. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> And that, I dare to say, is the majority of the reasons WHY women have elective cesareans.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pampered_mom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7270633"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You'll want to head on over to <a href="http://www.electivecaesarean.com/" target="_blank">http://www.electivecaesarean.com/</a><br><br>
Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.</div>
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I can't go there either, ugh, what a trainwreck. It only makes it worse to see crud like that because I've been on both sides of the fence - before, I was pro-c/s and I know for a fact that attitude is based purely in fear, and now that I am past the fear it is really awful to see the fear paraded around and marketed to women proudly as empowerment and control. I learned what an illusion that is, I can't stand seeing it perpetuated. I won't even go there to lurk.
 

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Hi<br>
I am just preggers...5 weeks and feel that I want a c/s. My first child was an emergency c/s...he was in distress w/o a heartbeat. He had swallowed meconium, which cuased a collapsed lung. As a result he spent 3.5 weeks in nicu and hospital. This time I just want my baby out and safe...call me crazy. I have't yet researched the topic yet, almost don't want too. I just want the c/s. We'll see<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/winner.jpg" style="border:0px solid;" title="BFSymbol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/dust.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dust">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I have't yet researched the topic yet, almost don't want too. I just want the c/s. We'll see</td>
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Here's some things to look at to get you started. Vaginal birth is much safer for you, & your baby!<br><br><a href="http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/press/pressitem.asp?ref=877" target="_blank">http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/p...em.asp?ref=877</a><br><br>
This talks about how babies born by c-section are 3x as likely to die:<br><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5322782.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5322782.stm</a><br><br><a href="http://www.motherfriendly.org/Downloads/csec-fact-sheet.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.motherfriendly.org/Downlo...fact-sheet.pdf</a><br><br>
I strongly encourage you to do the research.<br><br>
Did your baby inhale the meconium or just swallowed it? They do a deep suctioning if there is meconium present & that can cause a collapsed lung. Also, CFM has been shown to be highly unreliable. What was your baby's apgar scores?<br><br>
Have you read "Thinking women's guide" by Henci Goer? That's a great book to get some true facts about obstetric care. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 
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