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Discussion Starter #1
I wasn't sure where to post this and figured maybe this was the best place. Our ds is 25m and we're are ap all around. My good friend is actually mainstream (lives out of state) and is the only mainstream parent we really get along w/ besides my sister. Anyhow they were here on vaca and ds and I spent the day/night with them in Orlando.<br>
Wow is all I can say to the parenting differences. Her boys are 12, 5, and 19m. First off I noticed how little they actually hold/cuddle thier baby let alone the 5yr old. I honestly can't count how many times we hug/cuddle etc ds because it's so much in a day.<br>
Tv is big for them and the 5yr old can't sleep with out it. She doesn't understand why, and with all three sharing a room right now, well the baby is going to learn that tv=sleep as well at night. When we first got there her dh said there were cartoons on in the bedroom and I said "well ds doesn't know what cartoons are". He said sorry (meaning sorry he was missing out on tv) and I said "don't be, because he's Not missing anything".<br>
Also spanking/hand slapping. It has no effect. Why even bother smacking a hand or but if it doesn't do anything after 5 years?<br>
And I guess just attitude in general with her boys. They don't listen very well, especially the 5yr old. I realize that even ap parents have behavior/discipline problems, and that kids will be kids, but you could really see a difference in her boys compared to ours. Even in the two babies even.<br>
And I know not everyone can bf, but she chose not too, and her kids are always sick. Everytime we talk on the phone one has a cold or just got over something.<br>
I just amazed at the difference I truely believe ap makes-especially seeing it over the various ages and how they deal with it. It hasn't changed at all any time we've seen them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm saying I only know 1 mostly ap parent that uses tv as a babysitter as opposed to the many mainstream parents we've met where the tv is on most or all of the day or used as a babysitter. They have it on all night for him and all day. Most ap or nfl families we've met/know use very limited tv or none and not as a sitter for the babies. As for tv in general, I think it can cause unattachment from parent to child if all you do is plop them in front of it just so you can do other stuff. When they could be looking through books, playing with blocks and thier toys instead.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bbrandonsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7977789"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm saying I only know 1 mostly ap parent that uses tv as a babysitter as opposed to the many mainstream parents we've met where the tv is on most or all of the day or used as a babysitter. They have it on all night for him and all day. Most ap or nfl families we've met/know use very limited tv or none and not as a sitter for the babies. As for tv in general, I think it can cause unattachment from parent to child if all you do is plop them in front of it just so you can do other stuff. When they could be looking through books, playing with blocks and thier toys instead.</div>
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I think you are confusing AP with NFL, though. Attachment parenting is literally about physical closeness and attachment -- babywearing, co-sleeping, breastfeeding. Television can be used in synch with any of those parenting approaches.<br><br>
You can "plop" kids in front of books, toys, and blocks while you go and do other stuff, too.<br><br>
I'm not advocating extended use of television for young children, but I don't think it really has much to do with whether one is AP or not. Much like cloth diapering or vaxing, television is a topic that creeps into AP discussions but has nothing to do with attachment.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't have the two confused. I added tv into thier parenting because it's a huge part of it for them. If it wasn't, there is a greater chance that thier kids would have better attention spans. When they get mad if they can't watch a particular show etc, they get yelled at or spanked. It goes hand in hand with them.<br>
Only asking, but are there any ap friendly books or etc that recommend tv use? I only have the sears ones and I haven't seen anything in there that promotes tv usage, but interaction with your children with blocks, toys, coloring, music etc. I have to disagree that "plopping" a kid in front of tv is different than in front of things that they can build, color, explore etc. If I put our son in the family room with his toys so I can do the dishes, cook dinner etc, he does something new daily with his toys. It's always a learning exp with him. Tv can't compare imo. But I don't want this to turn into a tv thread.<br>
I was mainly trying to point out how amazed I was at the difference in ap vs ms with us & them and how our kids and ourselves behave. Everyone I know who does ap, thier kids are so much more behaved, loving etc compared to those who don't practice ap. The parents too.
 

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I think that falling asleep watching tv everynight is detrimental, and hand slapping/spanking is counterproductive and traumatic. That said -- I think that no matter how you cut it, being a first time parent to a 2 year old is going to look very different when compared to an established family of 12+ years and 3 kids. You get more relaxed, you take more shortcuts, and yougner sibs get exposed to stuff you never would have exposed your firstborn to just by nature of family dynamics. Honor your ideals, but be slow to judge others, kwim?
 

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What mamaduck said. And also, I have to say that as far as "well-behaved" goes, I know a lot of mainstream families whose children are a lot better "behaved" than mine are in public. I don't know if it has anything to do with AP vs. mainstream, or general child temperament, or what, but I'm not sure that good behavior is a direct result of attachment parenting. (If anything, I think that sometimes kids who feel more attached and secure are more likely to act out in public. This is just a theory/guess, though.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't mean to judge at all. I've watched my sister and friend raise thier kids for 10 years. And though not mine, I've always thought how they were doing it was wrong-cio, spanking, tv dependant, leave baby in a swing/playpen for long periods etc. Some of you might think we'll be singing a diff tune in ten years, but really- are you going to just turn around and start non ap parenting because of more kids and time issues? Especially when you know it's beneficial to the whole family, though hard sometimes? We know families who make it work and they are our role models. It can be done. My sister only started to come around to ap when ds was born-from seeing how we raise him and with members of her church practicing ap. It (ap) was almost unheard of when she had her first 3. They still do things like yelling & spanking, cio and tv is thier sitter. With her a lot is just pure lazziness and being stuck doing that for so long. My friend is the same way. If I really judged them we wouldn't be friends and my sis and I would have some issues going on. I'm just saying that it was almost a shock to see that kind of parenting for a whole day almost compared to what we're used to seeing among ap friends here.
 

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I just have to say that I think there's a spectrum of behaviors and styles that people have when parenting and there's no clear AP/mainstream dichotomy. Also, what is "mainstream"? Is mainstream middle-class white suburb the same as upper-class multicultural urban neighbourhood? I doubt it.<br><br>
Also, coming from the perspective of someone who identifies neither with the counterculture, nor the AP label, but with my own personal style of parenting in a mixed religion, mixed culture, mixed language and mixed nationality marriage, I really don't think that it's easy to just put other families into a category. We just don't know. Some attached-looking families might use psychological violence against their kids- you don't know. Other mainstream families might not spank at all. It doesn't depend on the label, it depends on a commitment to love.<br><br>
Also, I agree with the PP that those of us with new babies can't compare ourselves to people with more, older kids.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bbrandonsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7977260"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I realize that even ap parents have behavior/discipline problems, and that kids will be kids...</div>
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Uh huh.<br><br>
There are crappy parents out there, within all "styles" of parenting.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bbrandonsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7978977"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't mean to judge at all.</div>
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Well, no offense but you ARE judging. I mean, you used phrases like "pure laziness" to describe others' parenting.<br><br>
So, if you don't mean to judge, what exactly is the point of this thread? Because it seems like you want a bunch of people to come in here and tsk-tsk about what crappy parents your friends are and to pat each other on the back for being AP.<br><br>
We seem to have a thread like this every day on MDC, it gets a little old.
 

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ITA with what chinaKat and Mamaduck have said. When my first was a babe, I was very idealistic and was very quick to judge other families. Now that my family has grown (as well as the amount of exhaustion I experience daily!), I have much more compassion for others who do things differently than I do.<br><br>
Even among friends, we don't know the nitty gritty of what they are going through with their partners and children. And I always try to remember that parenting is a journey of self-discovery as well as dealing with sometimes painful issues from our own childhood. It's very complicated and the hardest job on earth.
 

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I can be a judgemental jerk but that usually lasts only a few moments, I remember how bad it feels to be looked down on. I'd be really heartbroken to think someone I cared for and trusted wrote nasty things about my mothering in a forum like this. It's not in the spirit of unsolicited advice or education. it's just mean. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:<br><br>
I know what it fees like to be shocked at how other people raise their children. It feels wrong to me, it feels off and ill fitting and sometimes unfathomable. I spend so much time in my little bubble with my little kids that every now and again I am surprised and unnerved by differences. This is where tolerance and respect comes in, I believe.<br><br>
We all make our own choices, we all make choices that we feel are right and best and when compared to other, different styles and choices mine feel more right and others feel even more off. But that's their thing. If I let myself get worked up over every choice made that differs from what I think is best I'd be insane! Besides, who am I to judge? Who am I? There have been times that I've said how can she let her baby do that or whatever and you know what? I ended up with a child who made me understand and I was humbled bigtime.<br><br>
I know a lot of "mainstream" parents who are turned off by "AP" parents because there can be some holier than thou vibe and that's not friendly and that isn't proactive and it certainly doesn't foster respect. Negativity and a sense of superiority will not get a spanker or a tv babysitter to open up to different ways. I don't think so anyway. I think judgement breeds judgement, it breeds nothing positive. I don't want to be one of those parents who scoffs at a FF but then gets offended when I am scoffed at for NIP, KWIM?<br><br>
I'm sure you're a sweet person, bbrandonsmom. I don't mean any of this in a negative way.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JanB</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7978337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What mamaduck said. And also, I have to say that as far as "well-behaved" goes, I know a lot of mainstream families whose children are a lot better "behaved" than mine are in public. I don't know if it has anything to do with AP vs. mainstream, or general child temperament, or what, but I'm not sure that good behavior is a direct result of attachment parenting. (If anything, I think that sometimes kids who feel more attached and secure are more likely to act out in public. This is just a theory/guess, though.)</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: I know that on the surface my 21 mo dd probably looks like a brat at times so I would be very hesitant to make blanket statements about behavior and AP. In fact my 15 yo who I was very "mainstream" with was certainly a far easier and gentler baby than his sister who I have used a AP style with since her birth.<br><br>
I also know that having 2 kids who are 13.5 years apart that I would be hesitant to judge another person's parenting when you have yet to get to that age. Its extremely hard to find activities that can engage a 5 yo and a 12 yo and I can easily see where the TV would be a easy tool.<br><br>
Shay
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm sorry if I offended anyone.<br>
Just because we feel that way of parenting is wrong, doesn't mean we're right. It's our opinion. My sister and I as well as my friend and I have talked about our differences and never even implied that our/thier way was better etc, or put anyone down. It was more about why they did it that way and why we did it our way. I was just shocked to see the total lack of respect from kids to parents and how I honestly feel it could be different if went about another way. It's not just them I see it with.<br>
I thought I could come here and point out how I see a difference in the parenting styles among other similar parents, and see if anyone else saw a difference in the two as well. Some of you do see a difference, and that's what I had wanted to talk about. I was using my friend and sister as examples of non ap-not to bash or put down.
 

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There really isn't anything to talk about. You parent differently then your friend. You feel that your way is better. Keep parenting your kids your way.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bbrandonsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7980812"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My sister is lazy, she's admitted herself and I'm sorry, but I think plopping your kid in front of a tv just so you can go read a book or something is lazy or maybe selfish.<br>
I really don't mean to come across as better. I thought I could come here and talk about the differences that I saw in the two ways of parenting. This was just my opinion and I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad or wrong in anything.</div>
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But you <b>do</b> come across that way....how old are your kids again?? Just asking because sometimes, *gasp* I too, am <b>more</b>than happy to grab a Barney video so the baby and I can grab a quick 30 min nap...or even*gasp* distract the older kids with TV so I can maintain my sanity..or even read a book for a few minutes. I'm okay with that....see I'm as AP as you get, but I've learned that some things just don't matter in the long run. So, I plan on continuing to lazily/selfishly 'plop' my kids in front of a movie so that I can catch my breath every now and then. And I don't feel bad about it.<br><br>
And that certianly has nothing to do with the fact that I'm AP.<br><br>
And the way you compare parenting styles without coming across as judgemental to family/friends is to get over yourself!! You don't know everything yet, neither do I!! Give advice when asked for advice. When someone compliments you, throw in a yes, babies really seem to like the slings or yes, we practice gentle discipline or yes, we breastfeed....don't preach. Don't dictate and above all, no name calling or insinuations. Every parent raises their way they think is best, be aware of that. You're not the only one who thinks they're right. Tread carefully.
 

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I had a weird experience last night. We were having dinner with dh's elderly great aunt and uncle. Great aunt was telling me about how she breastfed, coslept, didn't spank, etc. I told her did you know they have a name for that now? "Attachment Parenting" "We were definately attached!" she said. Even today, my grown up kids will call me and tell me about anything and everything. She also described dh's grandparents as being more strict, spanking, weaning the kids from the bottle by 9 months, very strict about a clean house - just painted a less warm picture.<br><br>
So we're on the car riding home and I ask dh how great aunt and uncle's kids are (I've never met them). Oh, they are all a mess - can't get their acts together! Huh? Then you look at dh's dad and aunt and uncle and they are all pretty "successful", have things together, loving, but definately a tad repressed. I guess dh says that the whole family has really grown in the past couple decades to be more loving....<br><br>
But anyway, just thinking about it - there's a balance there between love and attachment and discipline and guidance. All pieces of the puzzle - I think it's alot harder to ruin a person than we think. It's good to look at what we are doing and see the benefits - also good to take an honest assessment of what we need to work on as well. Sometimes looking at what other people do critically (in the academic sense) is a worthwhile activity - it's all about what you do with the information. Just babbling... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/blahblah.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="blah blah">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bbrandonsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7978280"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">hem.<br>
Only asking, but are there any ap friendly books or etc that recommend tv use? I only have the sears ones and I haven't seen anything in there that promotes tv usage, but interaction with your children with blocks, toys, coloring, music etc.</div>
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Well you are not going to find any mainstream books that recommend T.V. either, so you are setting up quite the false argument.<br><br>
In any event I know lots and lots and lots of mainstream families that don't spank, have lovely well behaved children whom they cuddle with all the time (not the 12 year olds though, at least not in front of anyone else). Many of these families limit TV time.
 

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I think that its wortwhile to evaluate specific parenting practices. But I don't think suscribing to an overall methodology puts anyone on the "right track" in terms of parenting. It just doesn't worth that way.<br><br>
I also think its pretty dangerous business to start making a lot of comparisons, especially in terms of outcome. We do the best we can, but we can't guarantee that our kids will be okay.<br><br>
I sure wish we could though!
 
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