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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to the LC today and we weighed my DD before feeding on one side for 14 minutes, weighed again, fed on the other side for 11 and weighed and she was only 1.75 ounces heavier. My breasts were not full full when I went in, she hadnt had a good meal in little less than 2 hours. Problem is screaming while nursing so we wanted to see how much milk she's getting when she starts with the fussing. Can I take this as gospel or what? I have pumped out more than that, the most I've ever pumped is 3 ounces, so I am assuming sometimes she gets 3? She's almost 11 weeks old, surely 1.75 ounces at a time is not enough for her.

I know breast milk is digested quickly, but in 25 minutes?

Thanks

Sarah
 

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Maybe she's not getting the milk out efficiently. I could overflow bottles when I pumped, but had to work with an LC for 2 mos. before she really got the hang of it.
 

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We have to remember as well that babies eat different volumes at different times of the day. Sometimes they have a full meal, sometimes they have a snack, and sometimes a sip. Personally I think a 24 hour weight check is more accurate to see if baby is getting enough milk/gaining well - it evens out all the big and little feeds. For milk transfer, counting swallows is often a good indication if baby is transferring well - combined with a thorough assessment of baby's mouth, Mama's breasts and the latch, and a before and after weigh-in. You gotta look at the whole picture.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PatioGardener View Post
We have to remember as well that babies eat different volumes at different times of the day. Sometimes they have a full meal, sometimes they have a snack, and sometimes a sip. Personally I think a 24 hour weight check is more accurate to see if baby is getting enough milk/gaining well - it evens out all the big and little feeds. For milk transfer, counting swallows is often a good indication if baby is transferring well - combined with a thorough assessment of baby's mouth, Mama's breasts and the latch, and a before and after weigh-in. You gotta look at the whole picture.


Baby may have been distracted by a strange environment and strange person watching her.

What you pump is not an accurate indication of what baby is taking in.

Was this an IBCLC that you saw? What was her recommendation?
 

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It's as accurate as the scales are and how often they are calibrated.

1.75oz is a small feed for an 11wk old, but not outside the realm of normal, it certainly wouldn't indicate to me that there were definite problems transferring milk, but then presumably you were in the LCs office for a reason?

FWIW, when we took DD in at 11 days old, she transferred 6cc, about 0.2oz in a similar length of time, which made it crystal clear there was a problem!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post


Baby may have been distracted by a strange environment and strange person watching her.

What you pump is not an accurate indication of what baby is taking in.

Was this an IBCLC that you saw? What was her recommendation?
she nursed normally, we nurse in all sorts of places, gotta socialize then


I know how much I pump is not an indication, which is why I was surprised when the LC told me 1.75 is all I will ever make and need to supplement with formula, even when I told her sometimes I can pump out 3 ounces. Didnt make sense to me.

Issue is screaming while nursing, and I had a breast reduction 5 years ago... wondering if the screaming was slow let down or over active let down or not enough milk coming out... I have no idea....because she just gets so frustrated and unhappy while nursing, almsot every time. Trying to rule out everything, I've already done diet trials, no indication it's reflux.

This LC was at a the hospital with the best NICU, I assume she is official? She recommended nurse first for no more than 30 minutes and top off with a bottle at every feeding, she said I will never ever make anymore milk than what I am making right now, (which doesnt sound right to me) so as my baby grows she will need more formula.

We've already started giving bottles of formula sometimes because I started back at work three weeks ago and have not been able to pump enough for when I'm gone (and when I am gone my husband is too lazy to thaw out breastmilk, jerk) she likes her 6 oucne meals, if she gets less she is grumpy baby to the extreme!
and we had been giving bottles of formula at night because that's when the screaming would get worse (thinking she was still hungry) and she'd calm down afterwards.

BUT, I think that created a new problem, she started screaming before feeding, as soon as she realized I was going to nurse her she'd freak out and scream and scream... I think she was holding out for a bottle. So all day yesterday I just held her close while screaming and eventually she would calm down and nurse, and all day the screaming fits got shorter and shorter. Today she hasnt done it yet.

Sarah
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yeah I understand what you mean. I dont know if she would have if she hadnt been SO SURE I am not going to make more milk, because she is a huge advocate of breastfeeding, and told me to definately not stop doing it.
*shrugs*
 

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Originally Posted by PatioGardener View Post
I'd be suspect of any LC who recommends formula rigth off the bat (unless baby is obviously in trouble with weight, dehydration etc) AND bottles.
I agree.

Being an LC at a good hospital doesn't mean it's an IBCLC. I would highly recommend seeing an IBCLC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
I agree.

Being an LC at a good hospital doesn't mean it's an IBCLC. I would highly recommend seeing an IBCLC.
ok, but I dont know what that means
 

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I think it's International Board Certified Lactation Consultant.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore when I hear the rotten advice handed out by so-called LCs. It is not true that you will need more and more formula - breastfed babies actually consume about the same amount of BM from one to six months old - and it is totally possible for you to increase your supply. She should have offered you some suggestions, such as domperidone.
A couple of things I'd suggest. First, check out bfar.org which has lots of good info about breastfeeding after breast surgery.
Second, if measures to increase your supply don't pan out and you do need to supplement, I'd invest in a Medela SNS or Lact-Aid so you eliminate the bottles when you're together. It will eliminate the refusing the breast and nursing fussiness, I bet. Third, I'd check out the milk calculator (to make sure you're not overfeeding) and tips on bottlefeeding a breastfed baby (to make sure she's not guzzling the bottles) on Kellymom.com to make sure what your DH is doing during the day is supporting breastfeeding.
Good luck, mama.
 

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How could ANY breastfeeding professional say that 1.75 oz is all you will ever make? How on earth would they know that? Because they did ONE after feed weight?

Please, if you're still concerned, see an IBCLC. Just about anyone can call themselves an "LC" or "Lactaction specialist".

Also, supplementing with more and more formula is a sure way to decrease your supply. At 11 weeks PP, you can still increase your supply by nursing frequently. Many women have success with EBF after breast reductions. And if you do still have to supplement you will be at least making sure your baby is getting as much BM as possible.
 

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In my very limited experience, there is a WIDE variety of experience in Lactation Consultants, even IBCLCs. Might there be an option to see a different one and get a second opinion? I've found they all don't come with the same body of knowledge and expertise, even when certified.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellien C View Post
In my very limited experience, there is a WIDE variety of experience in Lactation Consultants, even IBCLCs. Might there be an option to see a different one and get a second opinion? I've found they all don't come with the same body of knowledge and expertise, even when certified.
This may be true, but an IBCLC has hundreds or thousands of hours of clinical experience, and has to take a very thorough and difficult exam to achieve that designation - it's like the bar of breastfeeding.


In a pinch, contact your local La Leche League chapter and ask to talk to a LLL leader, who can advise you and/or refer you to an IBCLC.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
This may be true, but an IBCLC has hundreds or thousands of hours of clinical experience, and has to take a very thorough and difficult exam to achieve that designation - it's like the bar of breastfeeding.


In a pinch, contact your local La Leche League chapter and ask to talk to a LLL leader, who can advise you and/or refer you to an IBCLC.


An IBCLC is a BOARD certified lactation consultant. This entails hundreds or thousands of hours of clinical experience. For IBCLC's on the low end of clinical hours, have usually participated in the industry in other ways, such as completing masters or doctoral level work.

That said, the field of human lactation studies is rapidly evolving. For example, stuff that I learned to nurse my son just three years ago is outdated info now and would be considered unethical.

Anyone with 24 -40 hours training class can call themselves an lactation counselor. In many circumstances, they can help new mothers but unfortunately, not always. Therefore, I would recommend that anyone having breastfeeding concerns, go to the IBCLC website and search for a provider or look at a local lactation associations website.
 

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Dogstar,

That said, I can offer you some casual advice. Breast reduction is often a red flag for lactation consultants because it can mean inadequate milk transfer. Does your baby have enough wet and poop diapers? Is your infant gaining weight? If this is so, than I wouldn't necessarily be concerned with the milk transfer amounts you have produced. For many women, it's hard to pump a decent amount and therefore, it's likely your infant is more efficient at the breast and is getting more milk than you are actually pumping.

That said, any client that has had a breast reduction and is nursing needs to work closely with their IBCLC and pediatrician to ensure the baby is getting enough milk.

It doesn't necessarily mean you are going to need to supplement with formula. I have met plenty of mom's with br and they were able to nurse without supplementing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
she has a wet diaper every time I change it, which is every 2-4 hours, she does not seem to care about it so never really indicates when she's wet. She has poops one to two times a day that are usually yellow, sometimes greenish...

At first she was not gaining very much, bare minimum, I was told by my midwife and 1st pediatrician they should gain 4-7 ounces a week and for the first 6 weeks only gained 3.5 a week. The next time she got weighed she gained very well and was plenty big, but she had already had some formula bottles, so I dunno if she would have gained as much without them? She's definately growing, developing and is not skinny.

I'm at my wits end with the screaming. I never wanted kids in the first place, she was a huge oops, I literally found out I was pregnant an hour before my husband was scheduled to get a vasectomy. We love her so much, and once we were resigned to the idea it's nothing but the best, breastfeeding, attachment parenting, I did a home water birth, we wear her in a moby a lot..... but when I am holding her while she is screaming her head off because she doesnt want to nurse I think "What have I done?" and am full of regret.

And it's not that we tried a bottle too soon, she started doing it at 3 weeks old, she didnt get a bottle till 6 weeks.

My midwife said to trust my "mothers intuition" and it just seems like she's hungry all the time and sometimes doesnt get enough from me. There's been more than a few times she nursed, starts the screaming and we give in and get a 4-6 ounce bottle (of formula or breastmilk, doesnt matter) and she only drinks one or two ounces and is happy. I'm hoping she just grows out of it soon, or we find a magic cure because this is seriously wearing me out, and stressing me out. I need some sleep, and I need some peace.
 

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have you considered using a lact-aid to supplement at the breast? if you are away at work then by all means, give her a bottle then. but it sounds like she may be on the road to bottle preference. maybe the milk flows faster from the bottle, she doesn't have to work as hard, etc. anyway, using a lact-aid while nursing or at the end of a feed to "top her off" is probably a better idea then a bottle, as it will allow her to get extra milk while keeping her at the breast longer, which may in turn stimulate your milk supply.

i hope you figure out something that works for you all.
 

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a lact-aid is a nursing supplementer that is used at the breast, here's a website: http://www.lact-aid.com/prodcat09.htm
medela also makes a similar product, called the SNS, but from what i have heard both first hand from friends and online discussions, the lact-aid is easier to use.
hope that helps.
 
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