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I was in a debate in another forum and someone said that research shows tat25% of all men who are not circ'd at birth "need" it when they are adults. I asked her to post a link to the study but so far all get is "I can't remember where it saw it . . . I think it was a French study."<br><br>
I'm sure she was just making it up, but does anyone know if there really is a study that indicates how many circs are "needed" later in life?<br><br>
Also, I have a friend from Brazil who recently told me that a lot of Brazilian men "have" to have it done later because of recurring infections. I was so disappointed to hear this. But then she told me that her sister is a pediatrician in Brazil and didn't circ her son but "hates doing those exercises to him." I just said "whuh?????" Maybe Brazilian doctors are teaching you have to force retraction?
 

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I think the stats from Europe are about 1% which is less then those boys here who need corrective surgery on botched circumcisions in the US.<br><br>
You should look at stats in Europe rather than the US for 'need it later' stats because so many parents are convinced to have it done later in the US by doctors that are ignorant of the normal penis and circ is their answer to everything.<br><br>
i know I've seen a link here with this info here and hopefully someone will pop in here with it.<br><br>
Most of the time it has to be done later is because of improper care. Poeple in the US are told to retract and clean their infants, this causes infections and paraphimosis.
 

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here is what i found.<br><br><br><a href="http://www.glansie.com/en/questions.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glansie.com/en/questions.htm</a><br><br>
It is estimated that up to 5% of men have some degree of phimosis.<br><br><a href="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=anatomy-and-sexual-dysfun" target="_blank">http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...-sexual-dysfun</a><br><br><br>
Researchers at Boston University School of Medicine report that roughly one quarter of the women they have treated for sexual dysfunction have clitoral phimosisClitoral phimosis is roughly equivalent to an uncircumcised man with an extremely tight foreskin. Such men often cannot achieve an erection because it is painful; the condition is easily remedied by circumcision or surgical loosening of the foreskin.<br><br><br>
i couldn't find actual stats or anything about infections.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Pumpkinheadmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10811995"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was in a debate in another forum and someone said that research shows tat25% of all men who are not circ'd at birth "need" it when they are adults. I asked her to post a link to the study but so far all get is "I can't remember where it saw it . . . I think it was a French study."</div>
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If it was a European study odds are it didn't show that. I think the true odds, considering you have a competent physician and such, are on the order of a few in 100,000. I'll see if I can dig something up for you.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Pumpkinheadmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10811995"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sure she was just making it up, but does anyone know if there really is a study that indicates how many circs are "needed" later in life?</div>
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I think she was. Or she read it in some magazine that does poor research.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Pumpkinheadmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10811995"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Also, I have a friend from Brazil who recently told me that a lot of Brazilian men "have" to have it done later because of recurring infections. I was so disappointed to hear this. But then she told me that her sister is a pediatrician in Brazil and didn't circ her son but "hates doing those exercises to him." I just said "whuh?????" Maybe Brazilian doctors are teaching you have to force retraction?</div>
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Sounds like it. The is unfortunate it is hard to believe an intact country like Brazil might be working on some bad information. Perhaps you could past some information to your friend who could forward it to her sister?<br><br><a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/</a><br><a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/</a><br><br>
ETA: A quick search didn't turn anything up just yet. But I would put forth this thought that might help in the mean time. Check out this <a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/vanhowe2004/" target="_blank">study</a>. And notice down near the end there is a paragraph that says:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The incidences of penile cancer in Denmark,115 Finland,117 Norway,116 and Japan,156 where less than 1.5% of men are circumcised, are lower than in the United States,157 where the majority of men are circumcised. If circumcision is believed to decrease the risk of developing penile cancer, it is unclear why these noncircumcising countries with similar standards of living and hygiene have lower incidences of penile cancer. There is inconsistency and a high degree of variation in the studies looking at circumcision status and sexually transmitted diseases,112 including HIV infection.97 Nearly all studies of immediate complications from neonatal circumcision are retrospective and may underestimate the number of complications. For example, the only prospective study published to date investigated only bleeding and found that 9.9% of boys who underwent neonatal circumcision had notable bleeding following the surgery.158</td>
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Now from that you might be able to indirectly estimate the need for an adult circumcision. The vast majority of that 1.5 are proabably of the religious variety. So lets say on the extreem outside edge it might be .5%?
 

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In women with recurring yeast infections, they never recommend surgery. They treat the infections, give her some pointers on hygeine and dietary methods of controlling yeast and send her on her merry way.<br><br>
Why is it only in boys/men that the foreskin is considered so disposable???
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The incidences of penile cancer in Denmark,115 Finland,117 Norway,116 and Japan,156 where less than 1.5% of men are circumcised, are lower than in the United States,157 where the majority of men are circumcised.</td>
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At first I thought those numbers were the actual incidents per year or something (in which case the populations would need to be taken into account and in fact the result would be that the USA has significantly lower rates of penile cancer).<br>
Just to clear it up in case anyone makes the same mistake as me, those numbers are actually the reference numbers for sources cited in the paper.
 

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The other thing to consider, is that the only reasons to circ are Cancer, Frostbite and Gangrene. Anything else is treatable with much less drastic measures.<br><br>
We know how rare Penile cancer is...<br><br>
How many men get frostbite of the penis?<br><br>
How common is Gangrene? (I have no idea about this, I would think it might be more common with diabetics or men with untreated paraphimosis, but other than that....)
 

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Yes, there is always the "it will have to be done later anyways" excuse. Here are the stats from the Canadian Paediatric Society <a href="http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm" target="_blank">http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm</a>. Basically it's 10 out of 1,000 (1%) that will have to be done later. However, it's the exact same figure that are circ'd and will ALSO have to be done later AGAIN. It's also important to remember that Canada hasn't had a terribly long history with intactness. I believe there's a figure/study from Finland, which has never been a circ'ing country, which is even lower....I believe .6% (6 out of 1,000). I don't have the link to that handy, but I'm sure someone will be along that can provide it.<br><br>
Only in the US would you ever find anything approaching 25%. I believe I have seen one study in the US that was around 10%, which is of course needlessly high already. But honestly, with the ignorance and foreskin phobia in this country, I'm surprised 10% of those lucky enough to be left intact make it to adulthood with their foreskin. Also, how many of those actually are purported to be for "medical" reasons, but really aren't??!!! I recently met a 25 yr. old guy who said he had it done when he was 15 because of <i>perceived</i> peer pressure at the time. He said he never had any true medical problems with it but the doctor was able to bill it in a way so that he could get it done as a medical necessity. The nice thing was he now realizes what a mistake it was and will freely tell anyone NOT to do it.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Pumpkinheadmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10811995"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was in a debate in another forum and someone said that research shows tat25% of all men who are not circ'd at birth "need" it when they are adults. I asked her to post a link to the study but so far all get is "I can't remember where it saw it . . . I think it was a French study."</div>
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Well yeah, she didn't remember it because she didn't read it. The US would have the highest post natal circumcision rate among medical professionals as a treatment of perceived medical conditions. A prominent pro-circ activist claims that 10% of males are circumcised in the post natal age. These are males who are circumcised for medical "excuses," for cosmetic reasons, (personal preference) and religious reasons. If you look at other countries, you will see that circumcision of prepubescent and post pubescent males is very rare, on the order of a fraction of 1% in their lifetimes<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'm sure she was just making it up, but does anyone know if there really is a study that indicates how many circs are "needed" later in life?</td>
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Since The US has no means to track these statistics, the rate is unknown but in other countries such as Sweden, Denmark and England where there is a national health care system, they can easily track circumcisions and compile the results. All of these countries have a lifetime circumcision rate of a fraction of a percent.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Also, I have a friend from Brazil who recently told me that a lot of Brazilian men "have" to have it done later because of recurring infections. I was so disappointed to hear this. But then she told me that her sister is a pediatrician in Brazil and didn't circ her son but "hates doing those exercises to him." I just said "whuh?????" Maybe Brazilian doctors are teaching you have to force retraction?</td>
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This may or may not be the case. When I first became involved in this issue, I talked to a lot of people and was told of dozens of men who "had" to be circumcised. After the first few of these, I decided to track them down and find out the details. I eventually did find 5 of them but all the rest were either dead ends or the person telling me the story said "They don't want to talk about it" or some other excuse. The stories were invariably the friend of a brother's cousin's co-worker's uncle's third cousin twice removed.<br><br>
Of the five men I did find, all five were circumcised for non-medical reasons. In other words, they succumbed to societal pressure. Coincidentally, of the five, four of them were between dissatisfied and angry that they had bowed to the pressure and would not do it again if given the choice.<br><br>
The infections males contract are the exact same infections women contract and they respond to the same medications in the same way. When was the last time you heard of a woman having to have parts of her genitals amputated to treat vulvar and vaginal infections? This is a testament to the quality of physicians more than the susceptibility of men to infections.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10816318"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This may or may not be the case. When I first became involved in this issue, I talked to a lot of people and was told of dozens of men who "had" to be circumcised. After the first few of these, I decided to track them down and find out the details. I eventually did find 5 of them but all the rest were either dead ends or the person telling me the story said "They don't want to talk about it" or some other excuse. The stories were invariably the friend of a brother's cousin's co-worker's uncle's third cousin twice removed.<br><br>
Of the five men I did find, all five were circumcised for non-medical reasons. In other words, they succumbed to societal pressure. Coincidentally, of the five, four of them were between dissatisfied and angry that they had bowed to the pressure and would not do it again if given the choice.<br><br><br><br>
Frank</div>
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Hi, Frank. Nice to see you!<br><br>
Just curious how you tracked down these urban legends. Did you really ask people, "Give me the name and number of your cousin who had to be circumcised?" Giggling at the idea of that!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Galatea</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10819308"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hi, Frank. Nice to see you!<br><br>
Just curious how you tracked down these urban legends. Did you really ask people, "Give me the name and number of your cousin who had to be circumcised?" Giggling at the idea of that!</div>
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Thanks!<br><br>
Yes, that's exactly what I did. I told them I was doing some research into the medical causes of circumcision past the infant stage for a project I was doing and would like to interview some men who "had" to be circumcised. With the exception of the five men I did locate, the conversations went something like this:<br><br>
Me: I would like to interview this man.<br>
Them: It was a friend of my brother's.<br>
Me: Well then, can you give me your brother's phone number?<br>
Them: I doubt he would remember him.<br>
Me: Just in case he does, could you give me your brother's phone number?<br>
Them: I doubt that man would want to talk about it.<br>
Me: He might. Some men are very interested in talking about it.<br>
Them: No, I'm quite sure he wouldn't.<br>
Me: How can you know that?<br>
Them: I don't know, I just know.<br>
Me: Well then, could you ask your brother to ask him and give him my phone number?<br>
Them: Like I said, I'm quite sure my brother doesn't remember him and I'm quite sure the friend wouldn't want to talk about it.<br><br>
The conversations varied but they were all along the same line. It appeared that they were just repeating an urban legend and realized they had been caught.<br><br>
Of the 5 men I did contact, one was a fraternity brother, one was an uncle, one was a personal friend of mine, one was the husband of a girlfriend's best friend and one was the BIL of a manager of a restaurant I frequented.<br><br>
The fraternity brother did it because of perceived societal pressure at 23 years old. During the discussion, I brought up foreskin restoration and he was very interested. I don' know if he ever did it.<br><br>
The uncle did it because of pressure from a long term girlfriend who was a nurse. I suspect she was afraid of an infection. He had it done at 40 years old and by 43, he was totally impotent and by 45, the girlfriend was gone to marry another man. He said "It was the worst mistake I made in my life."<br><br>
The personal friend had just gotten remarried and thought he was doing it for his new wife. She actually didn't care. In less than a year, he was totally impotent.<br><br>
The GF's best friend's husband swore it was a good thing to do. The new wife wasn't so sure. She had a high to normal sex drive and his was practically non-existent. There is no way of knowing if that was a result of his circumcision. Despite it being a new marriage, (4 to 5 years) she was looking for a sex partner outside the marriage, just for sex and not for a relationship.<br><br>
The restaurant manager's BIL was very resistant to being circumcised but his wife was experiencing recurrent yeast infections and the doctor found out her husband was not circumcised and put the blame there. After months and months of resisting and of no sex, (the yeast infections continued) he finally gave in. The yeast infections did not stop. Only then did the doctor treat both of them at the same time but even then, the yeast infections did not stop. Finally, the doctor put the blame on the woman. Shall we say she was of excessive girth? The doctor determined that her excessive weight and her very large thighs prevented air from getting to the area and aggravating that, she wore synthetic underwear. The doctor told her to lose weight and change to cotton underwear. When I talked to the man, the wife had changed to cotton underwear but had not lost any weight after months and months (more than a year IRC) and the yeast infections were continuing unabated. The husband was very angry that he had allowed himself to be circumcised.<br><br><br>
Frank
 

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From another thread:<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Microsoap</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7818858"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd also like to add a man has to expose himself AND get shaved if he wants a vasectomy. Because he chooses not to have any more kids. You don't do THAT during infancy. Parents DON'T make the decision for their children's reproductive abilities. They shouldn't do it for aesthetics.</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>stever_45723</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7819144"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">On that note, I personally know at least 6 guys who got circed when they had a vasectomy. <b>All elective circs.</b></div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BamaDude</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7821674"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I wonder how many of those guys will blame the side-effects of their circumcisions (loss of sensation, etc.) on their vasectomies?<br><br>
Furthermore, I wonder what thought process led them to sexually hobble themselves just as they are about to be able to enjoy sex without constantly having to worry about their partner getting pregnant?</div>
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I'm still waiting for a good answer to my questions. Could it be that pressure was brought to bear by the doctors performing the vasectomies? Perhaps something along the lines of "You'll be wanting me to go ahead and circumcise you while I'm down there, right? Your wife will simply LOVE it, plus it'll be so much cleaner and easier to care for...".
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BamaDude</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10831600"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm still waiting for a good answer to my questions. Could it be that pressure was brought to bear by the doctors performing the vasectomies? Perhaps something along the lines of "You'll be wanting me to go ahead and circumcise you while I'm down there, right? Your wife will simply LOVE it, plus it'll be so much cleaner and easier to care for...".</div>
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You have to realize that for those men in the over 30 age group who were intact, the societal pressure on them was overt and intense. People believed they could say anything about intact men no matter how insulting and discriminatory. Somehow, they didn't even consider the fact that the man they were speaking to might be intact. I've heard such things myself. In the face of this, those men were unlikely to ever admit publicly that they were intact and were probably constantly concerned that someone would "out" them.<br><br>
I have no doubt that there was some pressure brought on by doctors but I doubt it was often as overt as you suggest. What you are suggesting is called "suggestive selling" as in "We've got it on the rack for new tires, how about an oil change and lube?" Considering the societal pressure these men suffered, I have little doubt many of them would have said "Yeah, go ahead and do it." Thankfully, few of today's generation will have to endure such either from society or from the medical profession.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10825999"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thanks!<br><br><br>
The restaurant manager's BIL was very resistant to being circumcised but his wife was experiencing recurrent yeast infections and the doctor found out her husband was not circumcised and put the blame there. After months and months of resisting and of no sex, (the yeast infections continued) he finally gave in. The yeast infections did not stop. Only then did the doctor treat both of them at the same time but even then, the yeast infections did not stop. Finally, the doctor put the blame on the woman. Shall we say she was of excessive girth? The doctor determined that her excessive weight and her very large thighs prevented air from getting to the area and aggravating that, she wore synthetic underwear. The doctor told her to lose weight and change to cotton underwear. When I talked to the man, the wife had changed to cotton underwear but had not lost any weight after months and months (more than a year IRC) and the yeast infections were continuing unabated. The husband was very angry that he had allowed himself to be circumcised.<br><br><br>
Frank</div>
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I wonder if this is what's going on with the people my Brazilian friend knows. If two people keep passing infections back and forth, why is it necessarily the guy's fault? Women are a lot more prone to yeast infections than men are.<br><br>
Someone was telling my intact dh just the other day "I actually knew someone who wasn't circumcised and believe me, you just don't want those kinds of problems!" He's the sarcastic type so he just looked at her with feigned awe and said "Really?!? You mean . . . a real person . . . and he wasn't . . . "
 
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