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I tried doing a search for it. But, I can't seem to find it.

What's the reasoning about why it's not GD?

Is there any point when Time Outs are GD?

What if it seems the way a child responds best when hitting and biting? What alternatives would you give when others are being severely hurt?

Thank you!
 

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Well, you are going to get some disagreeing here. Some people on this board think TOs are GD. Others do not.

I am in the "do not" camp. The widely published reasoning behind why they are not a good idea is that it facilitates the feeling of "love withdrawal" when a child needs to feeled loved unconditionally at all times....especially during the stress of disagreement/anger/rebellion/etc..... In other words, many people (including myself) believe that using isolation from the parent as punishment is seen by the child (in some cases) as withdrawing love. And manipulating parental love as a punishment tool does not seem GD to me at all.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper
I am in the "do not" camp. The widely published reasoning behind why they are not a good idea is that it facilitates the feeling of "love withdrawal" when a child needs to feeled loved unconditionally at all times....especially during the stress of disagreement/anger/rebellion/etc..... In other words, many people (including myself) believe that using isolation from the parent as punishment is seen by the child (in some cases) as withdrawing love. And manipulating parental love as a punishment tool does not seem GD to me at all.
:
 

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IMO, it doesn't 'teach' them anything. IMO, it doesn't address the behavior, it only reinforces to the child that they are not wanted.

IMO, it is better to use positive redirection.
ie-you don't want dc to bang the table with the spoon. Let them know spoons are used for eating their food. Sometimes you might need to show them.
 

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In our house, when my 2yo (who has a lot of trouble with transitions, and is VERY sensitive) is having a meltdown, especially if it is because of too much stimulation, we use time outs - but either DH or I have time out with him. We just go into his room and close the door and read a book or play something quietly, to allow him to calm down and get ready to face the world again (LOL).

I know thats not exactly the kind of time outs you are talking about, but we call them time outs and it is very effective in our house.
 

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I read on some ap website that time outs are okay when done appropriatly. You do not put the child alone, you don't have a special chair. The TO is to remove the dc from a situation for a brief period of time to calm down and rejoin the activity in a more produtive way. With my 2 y/o, if she seems to be getting overstimulated (aka psychoitc), I'll wear her for a while so that she can calm down before she gets herself in trouble. I guess for bigger kids, if they are acting up, have them come help you with something like laundry (or whatever you're doing at the time), like taking a break. You can even explain that they need to come with you and calm down a little or take a break.
 

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hi claire

yeah, i'm in the "do not" camp too...i did use a time out once when i was hugely pregnant and hormonal and in a CRAPPY mood. boy was that useless. and mean-spirited. one of my worst parenting moments, actually. rowan thought it was hilarious and ineffective, and i felt like crap.
aaanyway...i agree with pp's that it can be seen as love withdrawal...but i do think that having the child leave the situation can be an effective tool, if done respectfully.
what i've been doing lately is asking him if he needs some space, if he needs to go to truck bed (his big boy bed in his room) to rest. i'll say something like "you seem to be very frustrated/angry/sad/tired/etc). do you need to go up to truck bed?" most of the time he'll say yes. sometimes he even comes to me to ask if he can go up there to rest when he's getting frustrated or overwhelmed. i always ask if he wants me to go with him (its about 50/50 at this point) and i always tell him that he can come down whenever he wants to. he's been known to stay up there for a looong time, so i'm typically going in and out to check on him and make sure he's feeling ok.

when he comes back down i give him a big hug and ask him if he's feeling better. it's become a really great way for him to regulate his own emotions, and he's learning to leave the situation before it escalates.

so...i think that the technical aspect of being away from a situation can be effective, but i do think that it can be done very respectfully or very DISrespectfully. i'm not a fan of the "you've been bad, go sit on that chair" kind of thing (not saying you do that, claire) because it's sort of an arbitrary punishment with no learning involved, and seems very shaming and disrespectful. but if the goal is to teach the child how to self-regulate emotions, i do think that asking them if THEY want to be alone for a while is a good thing.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by milkymama06
I read on some ap website that time outs are okay when done appropriatly. You do not put the child alone, you don't have a special chair. The TO is to remove the dc from a situation for a brief period of time to calm down and rejoin the activity in a more produtive way. With my 2 y/o, if she seems to be getting overstimulated (aka psychoitc), I'll wear her for a while so that she can calm down before she gets herself in trouble. I guess for bigger kids, if they are acting up, have them come help you with something like laundry (or whatever you're doing at the time), like taking a break. You can even explain that they need to come with you and calm down a little or take a break.

Time in!

Learning to take a break is an important life skill. Many adults still struggle with it. That's part of what I really dislike about puniative time out is that it takes something really important, that can feel really good and makes it a punishment.

Having a chill out spot - a bean bag, some books, etc. can be great. The parent can join or the kid can go on their own, but it can be a place to unwind, recharge and get back on track. The key for me is that there isn't a set time to be there (as in x # of minutes in traditional time out) and that it not be followed up by a forced apology. At our house "taking a break" was treated with a breezy "oh good you are feeling better" after and that was it.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Roar
The key for me is that there isn't a set time to be there (as in x # of minutes in traditional time out) and that it not be followed up by a forced apology. At our house "taking a break" was treated with a breezy "oh good you are feeling better" after and that was it.
ITA. In our house we've always called it "alone time." Everyone takes alone time when they need it. Even mom and dad. And sometimes people take it just because they identify that they need it -- not because we say they do. Everyone needs time to recharge. I think when to start it depends entirely on your child's temperment. No younger than 3 for sure. Before then it was about "time-in" breaks to get under control. But now when my 6 year old and 3 year old behave nastily or throw a temper tantrum or a repeatedly defiant, I tell them it is time for "alone time" until they are ready to be civil and at least talk about what is bothering them [as opposed to hitting or screaming]. "Alone time" means they go to their rooms and hang out, do whatever they want, with the door open or closed [whatever their preference is] until they decide they are ready to come out. Sometimes it is 60 seconds, sometimes it is 30 mins. [If they are on there longer than 10 mins, I usually check on them and find them wrapped up playing with something contentedly by themselves. Then I remind them they are welcome to join us whenever they want.]

The keys to it in our house [and I wouldn't recommend this across the board; I think people need to know their own kids]:

(1) It is not punitive. It is never said as threat or as a punishment for misbehavior. It is said as a tool for cooling off. And I have modeled myself asking for "alone time" many times when I am tired, cranky, or angry or touched out and need to recharge.

(2) The kids are in charge of how long they need. The only criterion is that when they come back, they are ready to be civil to others. There are no forced apologies.

(3) The kids are welcomed back graciously and warmly and offered hugs or talking time -- whatever they need. They is no holding a grudge or hostile spillover from whatever behavior prompted the "alone time."

I know the philosophy that warns against sending your kids the message that certain behaviors mean they are not loveable. Or that worries that you are teaching your kids not to ask for help when they need it to manage their emotions. While I agree with these ideas in theory, I don't think the issue is black and white. We do plenty of hugging and calming and being with our kids to help them manage intense emotions. We talk about managing anger together. We always tell them that no feelings are bad. That is okay to feel ANY way. But it is not okay to ACT any way. And we problem solve with our kids help them ways to process their emotions.

All I know is that "alone time" works for our kids in our house. It cuts down on "acting out" orneriness and helps us all focus in on what the core issues, feelings are to help each other.
 

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To me I also don't think it is GD because if it's used for the wrong thing and when your using it. If you use it because your 'mad' at your kid -not right- if you use time out for the wrong punishment-not right- not treating the punishment itself- time out for not wanting to finish food-not right, time out in a closet-not good. Time out for nearly everything-not right even including not listening-not right

If a parent is getting upset then by telling your child go play mommy/daddy need a Time Out-that's when it can get used.

My cousins kids who are only disciplined by time out for nearly everything and they are still screeching screaming maniacs , fighting with each other and when my brother was there he was like oh my I can't handle all this ruckus.

My mom said aren't you glad that your sister is doing good that your nephew isn't like that.
 

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Alfie Kohn calls it "forcible isolation." But that doesn't sound as nice. Can you imagine a parent saying, "If you do that one more time, you're going to be forced to be isolated!"
 

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My daughter liked Time out. But, it wasn't "You sit here until you learn how to play nice".

Background: She was a vicious biter. I have a daycare, and I had a LOT of daycare kids. She was easily frustrated.

It was a playpen with a few toys and a tape player in it, and it was shoved in a corner behind a table. If she even LOOKED like she was going to bite, I would toss her tush in there. SHe would turn her back to us, and play with her toys. The kids all just ignored her, and usually within 30-40 minutes, she would be done playing alone, and would call for me.

When she got older (2-3-ish) she learned to just go in her room, and play alone. I kept a gate there, and she would close (or slam) the gate so no one would invade her privacy.

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In my experience, time out in the traditional sense does not work. The kids don't "Think about what they did" They think about what a big ol meanie Kim is, and they threaten to tell everybody from Mom to Grandpa on me for being mean.

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Time out when *I* am beyond furious DOES work though. Seriously...there have been a few times when I was just beside myself about something, and the kids were getting on my nerves, and I just needed a few minutes to myself...I will make all the kids lay down in front of the TV and I will turn on a "special used only in emergency" video and then I go in the other room and call a freind. I love time out!
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Time out when you are mad at a child because he has just done someting horrid. (permanant marker on your new leather couch) and you KNOW you are going to either break the hand he wrote with, or spew words that you will later regret...so therefore it is for his own safety.....use time out. It is a rare parent who never ever loses his/her temper. Time out is a good cooling off time for everyone.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phathui5
Can you imagine a parent saying, "If you do that one more time, you're going to be forced to be isolated!"
ROTFLMAO..I like that. I am going to try it!!
 

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We have think time (but we use this VERY seldom!!). I ask my 5 1/2 year old ds when he gets out of control to go to his thinking spot and think until he is ready to talk. He usually benefits from stopping what he is doing and calming down. He chooses how long he is there. Sometimes it is a few seconds other times a while. But I always check on him and ask if he has calmed down and is ready to talk about what was bothering him. I know this is not traditional "time out" but it works for him. But for the small stuff like turning over a cup or banging a spoon on the table........no way would I use time out or his think time for that. He is just asked to clean it up or stop banging the spoon or we put it away.

Now we have a 6 month old and we may do things differently when he gets to 5 but it will depend on his temperment.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyJulian89
In our house, when my 2yo (who has a lot of trouble with transitions, and is VERY sensitive) is having a meltdown, especially if it is because of too much stimulation, we use time outs - but either DH or I have time out with him. We just go into his room and close the door and read a book or play something quietly, to allow him to calm down and get ready to face the world again (LOL).

I know thats not exactly the kind of time outs you are talking about, but we call them time outs and it is very effective in our house.
Yes,


We do this too. I have been known for the occasional time out without a parent, but only for behaviors such as kicking/hitting me or endangering a sibling. And only for a short time, with the explanation preceeding, camly but sternly or vocalizing any fear about the violent behavior.
I feel adults need time to cool out sometimes too. I also think kids need some space away from a situation sometimes to see a bit more clearly. i think if used in a sense of trying to help the child calm down, see things rationally, and done with love it shouldn't be a problem.
I never try to withhold love when a child does something. I don't think it should even be a question. There is no doubt I am human and may come off that way sometime in the future, or maybe already have-but it is not my goal. I kind of see gentle time outs as a way to redirect behavior gone awry. But as with anything, they are not the end all tool in my belt.
 

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I dont think they are abusive, but they are not something we choose to use in our house
I have taken kyla out of a situation and sat somewhere with her, but we do not use them in the sense of child sits by themselves for some arbitrary time. I think they can go too far when the parent has to force the child to stay in one spot, lock them in somewhere (i have seen that recommended in many books--love and logic for example), or they drag the time out on for far too long because they restet the timer over and over.
 

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IMO, time-outs as a punishment meted out for behavior are not GD and not effective either (i.e. "if you do xtz behavior you will have atime out/go to time out chair/etc.) I think everyone - child or adult - has times where they are so worked up that they need a break from the current situation. When I see my dd get overly frustrated with something (or when I get overly frustrated!) I suggest that we take a break. Then we leave what we are doing and do something else TOGETHER for awhile before trying to resume dealing with the frustrating activity or situation.

Personally, I think the time-out idea is overused to the point of absurdity. I hate to even use the term to tell my daughter we are going to take a break because I don't want her to confuse it with what she hears w/ other kids being "put in time out."
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper

I am in the "do not" camp. The widely published reasoning behind why they are not a good idea is that it facilitates the feeling of "love withdrawal" when a child needs to feeled loved unconditionally at all times....especially during the stress of disagreement/anger/rebellion/etc..... In other words, many people (including myself) believe that using isolation from the parent as punishment is seen by the child (in some cases) as withdrawing love. And manipulating parental love as a punishment tool does not seem GD to me at all.
I completely agree with this statement, couldn't have said it better.
 

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I have used them and don't think they are gd. I have gotten so angry at ds1 for pounding on ds2 that I have forcibly isolated him. Luckily, we are now doing much better. The first few weeks of having a newborn and an 18 month old were a bit challenging.
 
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