Mothering Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondering if anyone else has experience with toddlers exhibiting just a few behaviors from the autism spectrum. i'm going to briefly describe what's been going on with my girls, now almost 23 months--just in case someone has some ideas or wants to tell me not to worry. i have a freind with an autistic child, but my girls clearly aren't what anyone could see as autistic--but the arm-flapping one of my girls looks just the same, and is brought on by stress or excitement in the same way my friend's child exhibits that behavior.<br><br>
i first noticed the flapping back in february (there are other minor behviors too, but this is the most obvious), and i started us on the SCDiet in April when they were 15 months. The arm-flapping stopped pretty shortly after, and I introduced new foods really quickly after three months (we were moing and the diet was making me sick because i hadn't figured out how to eat enough). After SCD, we were strictly NT with the occasional non-NT organic pizza, but I was going heavier with the grains. Blah blah blah. After the summer, about three weeks ago, the arm-flapping started coming back. Last week I cut out grains. The girls had SEVERE withdrawal. For example, one girl bit my nipple repetitively all day, and when I would talk to her about it, she'd freak out crying. That only lasted a day (she's bitten before, but this was very different). We all had circles under our eyes, which I've never seen on them. So, all I've cut out is grains (not honey or dried fruit or rapadura). The SCD cured us of obvious symptoms of a candida infection--maybe we still have one and i should cut everything out again?<br><br><a href="http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/book/bk8sect1.html" target="_blank">This</a> article (from another thread) made me decide to cut out grains. Here's an excerpt that sounds so like our situation--ie, I gave them antibiotics before I knew better at 12 months, and a perhaps low-level candida overgrowth became severe:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Pancreatic atrophy, hypoglycemia, and antibiotics<br><br>
I reviewed the results of a very interesting case, which illustrates the possible damage of yeast byproducts. (I encountered many similar cases but this child was tested over an extended time period and was extensively evaluated by many different medical specialists so that the child's biochemistry had been analyzed exhaustively.) At about 10 months of age, this normal child whom I'll call Ralph developed a Strep throat and began to be given antibiotics. The Strep throat cleared up but the conscientious parents were advised to be sure to finish giving the entire 14-day supply of antibiotics. When Ralph's mom went to check on him, she found that he was having convulsive seizures. She rushed Ralph to the emergency room at the hospital where his blood glucose (blood sugar) was near zero. Ralph would have been dead if his mother had brought him in any later. Ralph was given an infusion of glucose into his vein and began to recover.<br><br>
Because of Ralph's extremely low blood sugar; the attending physician sent a urine sample to my organic acid laboratory to see if Ralph had one of the genetic disorders that caused low blood sugar. When I examined Ralph's urine organic acid profile, he had none of the abnormalities associated with any of the genetic diseases that cause hypoglycemia (low blood glucose) such as fatty acid oxidation disorders. What Ralph did have was very high levels of the sugar arabinose, indicating (to me) a severe yeast overgrowth resulting from his antibiotic treatment for Strep. I reported my findings. A new physician at the hospital was sure Ralph had one of the genetic disorders and ordered a retest. Again, the only significant abnormality was the elevation of the same yeast-related compounds that I had found in children with autism.<br><br>
When Ralph returned home, his parents became concerned because he began to stagger at certain times of the day. When tested repeatedly, his blood glucose was low again, testing between 30-50 mg per dl. Normal is about 100 mg per dl. Many other endocrine tests revealed no cause for Ralph's hypoglycemia. Ralph was referred to another specialist who suspected that Ralph might have a tumor of the pancreas that was oversecreting insulin, which lowers blood sugar. However, repeated testing revealed only a slight increase in insulin at most, not a value high enough to indicate a tumor.<br><br>
His parents were taught how to perform a blood sugar test and tested Ralph's blood sugar several times a day. The child's pancreas where the insulin-secreting cells are found was examined by an imaging technique called an MRI and it was found that there was a severe atrophy of the pancreas. In addition, the tail of the pancreas was completely missing. But a tumor secreting insulin was not found. Additional organic acid tests at later times revealed the same elevation of yeast byproducts. Several times I recommended the use of an antifungal drug but my suggestions were ignored.<br><br>
Instead, the parents of the child were instructed to give the child multiple doses a day of a food called cornstarch, which is broken down into sugar in the intestine. The idea was that sugar derived from cornstarch would increase the child's blood sugar. However, the child's blood glucose continued to be abnormal and the parents were reprimanded for not being diligent enough in giving enough cornstarch throughout the day. More than likely, the excessive cornstarch was feeding Ralph's untreated yeast overgrowth and just made his hypoglycemia worse. Low blood sugar is prevalent in fibromyalgia (29), a disorder in which yeast overgrowth is common (30,31). Finally, at about the age of two and a half years, I learned that Ralph was being referred to a developmental pediatrics department with the diagnosis of a probable autistic-spectrum disorder. At this time, a trial of nystatin was introduced. Ralph's blood sugar returned to normal in about a week and his organic acids were normal for the first time since he had started antibiotics as an infant. <b>There is no doubt in my mind that I had witnessed and documented over a span of about two years the transformation of a normal infant into a child with autism.</b><br><br>
I have lost contact with the child's parents and do not know what happened to him later on. Ralph's story indicated to me that yeast overgrowth could cause severe hypoglycemia and that it might also severely damage the pancreas. The hypoglycemia could be due to the yeast byproducts. I suspect that the damage to the pancreas was due to antibodies against the yeast that cross-reacted with the pancreas in an autoimmune reaction. (See the chapter on the immune system.) It is possible that protein crosslinks of pentosidines caused by abnormally high arabinose might also be responsible for some of the damage. (See the chapter on organic acids.) The pancreatic damage probably resulted in deficient production of digestive enzymes by the severely damaged pancreas. This deficiency of digestive enzymes would also result in the incomplete digestion of wheat and milk proteins, which would then be absorbed and cause their opiate effects on the brain.</td>
</tr></table></div>
I've started using digestive enzymes, mostly on me (they're still nursing)--one baby likes to take them, but it doesn't seem like all the food is being digested even with them--does it take awhile to become effective, or should I up the dose? When I tried enzymes back in April they got bad rashes; this hasn't happened yet, but I'm hesitant still to do too much.<br><br>
Thanks for reading. I know something's wrong--the arm flapping is not normal--and did I mention that the second twin started doing it in the past two days? At first I thought she was copying her sister and had someohow picked up on my concern--but today it seemed genuine. Maybe it's getting worse before it gets better--a healing crisis? (Some things seem better--they've always been high needs, but today they played with their grandmothers for 30 minutes at a house we were looking at without calling for me--the longest ever by far, not to mention it was in a strange ocation.) But the fact that one twin has the armflapping now after never doing it before has me really worried. Has anyone dealt wth a fairly isolated symptom like this one and had success in getting rid of it?<br><br>
Thanks for any thoughts!<br>
m
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,775 Posts
nak<br>
Yes, dd exhibited some stimming behaviors too. We started SCD and discovered her wheat/gluten allergy at the same time. Stimming stopped.<br><br>
I'd suggest that you go gluten-free/casein-free and see what happens. And be super strict about it. Of course, I'd also keep all the grains out but that's jmo.<br><br>
My dd was vaxed until 6 months <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying"> and I had amalgams removed when she was only 3 mos. old and ebfeeding, so now she's metal toxic. I believe that this is at the root of our troubles.<br><br>
Good luck mama! You might want to x-post this in the special needs forum too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks! How do I cross-post?<br><br>
After I typed my post, I started thinking candida might really be back. I've gone dairy free myself (when the girls probably got intermittent cheese) and it didn't seem to make much difference, but I think I only gave it three weeks and I had some kvass fermented with whey, so it wasn't complete, but maybe I'll try casein-free too. Not going back to grains anytime soon. I know they're evil for me.<br><br>
ETA: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> i vaxxed until 12 months<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,775 Posts
You just copy this post and post it over in Special Needs too.<br><br>
Are you giving your dcs cod liver oil?<br><br>
I highly recommend that you go get the book Children With Starving Brains by Jaquelyn McCandless. There are lots of tips in there about supplements for kids w/ASD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,652 Posts
The arm flapping sounds like stims but I'm wondering if that's the only sign you're seeing? Any delays or other possible stimulating behaviors? I would cross post in special needs as there are lots of moms there with experience in these issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
I don't know anything about autism but I think if all you're seeing is arm flapping when she's agitated or anxious, don't worry. My middle son did the arm flapping thing for a while when he couldn't get something he wanted right away, etc. He's 6.5 years now and I haven't seen him doing it lately but I don't know when he stopped, maybe around 4 - 5ish?? His new thing is sucking on his shirt cuff. So I wouldn't worry about isolated arm flapping, I just think it's one of those things that some kids do like hair twirling, sucking on their shirts, biting nails, etc.<br><br>
And my 2 yo will occasionally flap too, again when he's frustrated or something. It's almost like he's signing "Gimme, gimme, gimme!!" when he can't get something fast enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
My son is flapping alot more lately too. I'm thinking it's yeast related as well. He's been on a course of Augmenten and was REALLY great the last few weeks, but then, all of a sudden, he had a loose stool again and then the flapping started and the visual stimming.<br><br>
I don't know how to tell if there is yeast in the stool. Does anyone have any ideas?<br><br>
Thanks,<br><br>
BodoGirl!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,421 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>staceyshoe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6460086"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The arm flapping sounds like stims but I'm wondering if that's the only sign you're seeing? Any delays or other possible stimulating behaviors? I would cross post in special needs as there are lots of moms there with experience in these issues.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br>
For what its worth, my son is in early intervention and he has stimming behaviors. She said she isn't particularly worried right now, it would concern her if he got "stuck" in it.<br><br>
But as a worried mama, he is seeing a developmental pedi (who tested and said he isn't showing autistic tendencies at this time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">) but I'm on a waiting list for a second opinion. He is showing many more signs then just hand flapping.<br><br>
Anyway, I don't know about the diet thing, but if you are concerned, I'd say get on a list now for evaluation via a developmental pedi or early intervention cause it takes a long time to get in (I guess depending on where you are at) and if you decide not to get the eval when the time comes, that is ok too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,138 Posts
I have a son with autism. His twin is definitely typically developing (definitely). The typical one arm flapped for a while. If you go on a playground and watch kids in this age range you'll see flapping. It can be a typical behavior.<br>
I'm assuming from your thread and diet changes though you're concerned for some reason beyond just the flapping? Are you? Because had you just posted flapping with no other issues I'd tell you not to worry. More important signs are non-verbal language use (pointing, waving, shaking head yes/no), responding consistently to name, back and forth interactions, referencing you when unsure.<br>
Try this link to see if you might have reason to be concerned/if your child might be diagnosable. <a href="http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html" target="_blank">http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html</a><br><br>
On the description of the boy who had seizures and hypoglycemia.<br>
My son has autism becuase of a metabolic condition. None of the fatty acid disorders can be detected through urine organic acids (they are acyl-carnitine profiles as clues and then skin biopsy tests). Others that cause hypoglycemia you can only find through skin biopsy. Some only through muscle biopsy. Fatty acid disorders, CPT disorders, Mitochondiral disorders, glycogen storage disorders, or organic acedimias all could do what is described there. I'm not as familiar with the glycogen storage or organic acedimias but might even fit the finding in the sugar if his body couldn't process it. My son's urine organic acids are pretty normal too. He's very sick though. At any rate, this kiddo fits a profile of a child who certainly has a metabolic disorder. It is textbook (this response with illness followed by low blood sugar and seizures and all). Sounds like this may have happened a long time ago or otherwise his doctors didn't know what they were doing. I hope they figured it out.<br>
Side note there: SCD can be terrible for some metabolic conditions. My son was on SCD for 18 months and it was a true disaster. I kept thinking something about food was affecting him hence the SCD diet. Yes, something was. Because he has a metabolic condition. It was fat actually for my son. Others protein. Other kids fruit or other sugars. Maybe the case with the kiddo referenced above. But it wasn't yeast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sbgrace--isn't it interesting how differently this disease manifests--or how various underlying causes create similar symptoms?. Scd was horrible for us too, but it was because they can't tolerate gluten or dairy (or soy, or refined sugars, or even too much honey...and we don't even bother with artificial anything...). I would never have suspected fats; tho at the beginning of this journey, i never would have suspected dairy.<br><br>
I have seen other kids flap their arms, but quite honestly I think lots of kids are just hovering right at the edge of the spectrum. My kids were doing it often, when they got upset or excited, and it just looked too much like our friend's child who is only behaviorally treated for her autism. If we hadn't done some drastic dietary stuff, along with homeopathy, I have no doubt my kids would be fullblown in the spectrum. When I did the online test, my kids fit into the spectrum at a mild level--mostly there were severe social problems, some head banging, spinning and flapping, and one child was particularly aggressive. Language-wise they were exceptional, which is rare enough for twins, but I realized they were using echoalia--my three year old now says "aminals," when at 2 she could say "animals" perfectly. Anyway...<br><br>
I can't believe the original post was a year ago. We couldn't get out of bed until wed read books for an at least an hour; they still pushed Daddy away most of the time, and interaction with any other family was painful and strained. We couldn't stay out in public for more than 30 minutes or so. Diet has played a key role (We had just taken gluten and diary out then, but I was still sneaking it and breastfeeding; they're still nursing, but now I'm strict too), but one of the biggest helps has been homeopathy. Sbgrace--even if this presents as a metabolic disorder, you might see what constitutional homeopathic treatment can do. Good luck!<br><br>
Next we try an herbalist, and hopefully I can get them to a good chiropractor one day...but they are very scared of doctors<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">.<br><br>
Logan's mom--my kids were in EI and they saw nothing. Maybe yours guys are good, but they gave me some of the worst advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,421 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>nicolena</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9836849"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Logan's mom--my kids were in EI and they saw nothing. Maybe yours guys are good, but they gave me some of the worst advice.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I don't know if they are good or not. That is why we went to a developmental pedi and are on the waiting list for Boston Children's Hospital for their developmental eval. I figure the more opinions, the better.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top