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Here is an article from "Oregon Live"<br><br><a href="http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/1177644329102660.xml&coll=7&thispage=1" target="_blank">http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/...l=7&thispage=1</a><br><br>
Thought this was interesting...and scarry...<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But Julie H. McFarlane, a supervising attorney with the Portland-based Juvenile Rights Project, said that the child's consent for a medical procedure is not required until he turns 15.</td>
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So, a parent, can "force" a teenage to have a circumcision against their will up until the age of 15?<br><br>
How absolutely horrific is this? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: I hope this story gets more and more publicity just as it seems to be!
 

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That's what I thought, maybe this version of the thread will be allowed to stay here for more than 2 microseconds.<br><br>
So, how many sicko men will be getting breast implants for their 12 year old girls because they prefer large breasted women?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7967127"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's what I thought, maybe this version of the thread will be allowed to stay here for more than 2 microseconds.<br><br>
So, how many sicko men will be getting breast implants for their 12 year old girls because they prefer large breasted women?</div>
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People here are smart enough that they should know what aspects of it we can discuss. The important thing is, that we get the story and the information out there.<br><br>
It is scarry and crazy to me that a child can be forced to have cosmetic surgery against their will...(circ being permanently sexually damaging cosmetic surgery). I've read some reactions to this in some European forums and they are so APPAULED. They basically think the whole US and the way circ is thought of as "normal" as sick and perverted.
 

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The lawyers commenting on the case are even admitting that this is cosmetic surgery....and it's still OK? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 

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Maybe this one will be the one that really gets people to think about it. After all, the rights they're trampling over for the 12 year old are no different to the ones they trample over on the 2 day old are they?<br><br>
I was thinking about it, and it's really no different from a rights point of view, whether a child is 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 4 years, 10, 12, 14 ....they're still minors and can be forced into cosmetic surgery whether they like it or not.<br><br>
Hopefully it will seem appalling to people, who would happily cut a baby, to do this to such an older child, and then it can be pointed out to them that it's legally and theoretically no different.
 

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It's just sick. The father should be ashamed of himself. What harm would it cause to let the boy decide when he's 18, the only thing I can think is the father doesn't want to give his son the chance to say no. Which is disgusting.
 

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Wow. I didn't realize ostensibly sane courts were actually <i>considering</i> this, I assumed it was the father being annoyingly persistant.<br><br>
Horrifying. Where is Amnesty International? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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Whoa! I guess my letter to the Oregonian worked, eh? I am glad to see some confirmation in the news about this case. And I think there will now be some great discussion about it. I will pass this link on to the blogs with the skeptical comments.
 

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But what if the father was from Ethiopia and he wanted his daughter to have a labiaplasty in accordance with his religious and cultural beliefs? I'm almost sure the courts would not approve such a thing. What a horrible double-standard.
 

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That was quick! Pharyngula just put up another article about it:<br><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/04/can_someone_tell_me_why_gods_a.php" target="_blank">http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...why_gods_a.php</a><br><br>
See, evidence is good! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I was wondering, isn't there precedent over this, wasn't there also a battle over that 8 year old in Chicago about to get circ'd for spurious reasons, and wasn't that thrown out and he's still intact? The custodial parent didn't get her way there did she?<br><br>
How come Oregon is coming to the opposite conclusion?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7969261"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was wondering, isn't there precedent over this, wasn't there also a battle over that 8 year old in Chicago about to get circ'd for spurious reasons, and wasn't that thrown out and he's still intact? The custodial parent didn't get her way there did she?<br><br>
How come Oregon is coming to the opposite conclusion?</div>
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Well, in that case, though the mother had custody and wanted the child circ'd in the divorce agreement they had stipulated that the father had say in major medical decisions.<br><br>
In that case, they did look at "the best interest" of the child. The judge stated the obvious, that it wasn't medically necessary and that the child could decide on their own when they were 18.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7969261"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was wondering, isn't there precedent over this, wasn't there also a battle over that 8 year old in Chicago about to get circ'd for spurious reasons, and wasn't that thrown out and he's still intact? The custodial parent didn't get her way there did she?<br><br>
How come Oregon is coming to the opposite conclusion?</div>
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A decision by a court in a different jurisdiction isn't precedent (unless the case was decided by the Supreme Court, in which case it might still be possible to distinguish the two from a legal standpoint depending on the details). The Illinois case may be persuasive authority, and the court may look to that decision on points of law, but it's by no means binding on a court in Oregon.<br><br>
Julia<br>
dd 1 <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sugarbeth</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7969205"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That was quick! Pharyngula just put up another article about it:<br><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/04/can_someone_tell_me_why_gods_a.php" target="_blank">http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...why_gods_a.php</a><br><br>
See, evidence is good! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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i was posting there the last time you posted the link, but the article disappeared!<br><br>
ood work- are you in oregon? could you get the eugene weekly (forget the name) to write about it from a more intactivist perspective? they are fiercely progressive & human-rights activists extrordinaire.
 

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both of the articles are still on Pharyngula as far as I can see, TigerTail.<br><br>
I'm just outside of Seattle. All I did was go to the Oregonian website and send an email to the news department with links and asking, "why isn't this in the news", and then all of a sudden, it was. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">: You could probably do the same thing for the weekly.
 

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it might be better coming from a local <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">.<br><br>
hmmn, that thread i was posting on disappeared for me. maybe it had just been temporarily down. i'd wondered what happened.
 

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"'I am still of the opinion that the decision of whether or not a child has elective surgery, which this appears to be, is a call that should be made and is reserved to the custodial parent,' Orf said in a hearing."<br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 
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