hi im new at this and i have tried everything at this point. my kids are 5 and 4 the eldest is a girl the youngest a boy. i am having problems getting my kids to bed they are currently going to bed anywhere between 2 am to 7 am i am exhausted the school is down my throat because while they are suppose to be at school i am trying to get some much needed sleep. recently the kids started visitations wihth their father whom they havent seen in seven months i am assuming this new routine of theirs is due to the change as before they were both asleep by 10 pm We have struggled with maintaining routines for the past four years it has never been this bad before. the oldest is more out of control than the youngest nothing seems to be working i have tried timeouts rewards taking priveleges away as neccessary i have even resorted to spanking just to get 5 mins of peace they are constantly fighting eachother and when they are not they are teaming up and destroying our house i had thought that by now they would have grown out of he destructive face boy i am wrong any help or advice that anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated i dont want to spank my kids but i need to gain some sort of control of them please help !!!