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I just read part of an article in Parents magazine today at the doctor's office. It was discussing the pain management of babies and young children and how they have historically been treated with much less respect than adults.

Here's the link:
http://www.parents.com/baby/health/s...elief-secrets/

Doctors used to believe that babies couldn't feel pain. Up until the early 80's they would do open heart surgery on babies WITHOUT anesthesia!! Reading that made me physically ill. It took them awhile to realize this was stressing the baby.
The point of the article was that children can be made to feel much more comfortable, even for things as simple as drawing blood or giving a shot, but many doctors just haven't thought of it until more recently.

I think if babies could express themselves other than just crying, it might have been a whole different outcome. It just makes me see how the "establishment" has long ignored the needs of children in many instances. No wonder CIO is still no big deal within the medical community. Scheduled feeding and ignoring a fussy baby do not hold a candle to some of these painful practices. I guess they may have believed anesthesia was dangerous for the babies, but - come on? How could we, as humans, let ourselves get so out of touch with another human being (and a helpless one at that?) I'm totally floored by this information.
 

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:puke
 

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Fortunately, the medical establishment has realized that babies do indeed feel pain and have worked aggressively to assure that they are comfortable in any type of procedure. As a mom who had three kids in the NICU, I can say how happy I was with the pain management and attention to my child's comfort I received by all doctors, nurses, therapists and basically everyone we encountered there.
 

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Honestly, this is just so ridiculous. I mean it is common sense! Who hasn't accidentally scratched their baby with their wedding ring, or some other accidental thing, and- OMG - their baby cried in pain.
:
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CottontailKate View Post
Fortunately, the medical establishment has realized that babies do indeed feel pain and have worked aggressively to assure that they are comfortable in any type of procedure. As a mom who had three kids in the NICU, I can say how happy I was with the pain management and attention to my child's comfort I received by all doctors, nurses, therapists and basically everyone we encountered there.
I am so happy to read that! I just feel bad for the babies of the past. I was just incredibly shocked when I read that article.
 

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When my 2 year old was a newborn, he needed a spinal tap. It was done incorrectly the first time and I said that unless he had pain relief for the next one, there wouldn't be a "next one". The resident then told me that it he didn't need it because "he won't remember it anyways".
:

Needless to say, I won that one.
 

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wow! that is my theory....people don't think babies are persons! we cut them, poke them, pull them out into the world and scrub them, ignore them, feed them carp that we wouldn't eat if we were paid to do it...we shoot them up w/ toxins for the good of the rest of the population (e.g. the adults) we make them CIO to fall asleep. we mutilate their bodies.

sick.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
wow! that is my theory....people don't think babies are persons! we cut them, poke them, pull them out into the world and scrub them, ignore them, feed them carp that we wouldn't eat if we were paid to do it...we shoot them up w/ toxins for the good of the rest of the population (e.g. the adults) we make them CIO to fall asleep. we mutilate their bodies.

sick.
This is pretty offensive. There are people on here that think vaxing is ok and to say that we don't think babies are persons is totally rude. I did vax my kids and I would do it again in a hearbeat. And I can promise you that I absolutely think they are people.
 

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Sadly, this ridiculous idea still persists. My ds1 had a heel stick for PKU as a newborn (6 yrs ago) and they told me at the hospital not to worry because he doesn't feel pain. I said that's ridiculous, of course he does, and they then said that he won't remember it anyway.
:

He was the last poked child. That was his last poke and none of our others have had any interventions whatsoever.

I've heard that idea spouted from many people in conversation too, and have had to point out specific examples that decry the notion that they don't feel pain, only to have the same response by most- they won't remember it anyway. I usually respond that they won't remember early nursing and rocking, cuddling and giggling, speaking and singing, but it informs their sense of self and their confidence in growing to their potential as well as their overall well-being. So does causing them distress and pain and a lack of security, and I choose to give them the former, even if they won't 'remember' it.


My dh resigned from working with a dr in 2007 who still believes this too.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
we shoot them up w/ toxins for the good of the rest of the population (e.g. the adults)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover View Post
This is pretty offensive. There are people on here that think vaxing is ok and to say that we don't think babies are persons is totally rude. I did vax my kids and I would do it again in a hearbeat. And I can promise you that I absolutely think they are people.
Presumably you don't believe that you are 'shoot[ing] them up w/ toxins' though, right, so really, it would be odd for you to take offense to this.
People who feel very strongly against vaccination may be equally (or less/more) offended by your assertion that you would do it 'again' to your children in a heart-beat (implication being without even further consideration).

It is probably best to take a discussion about these views to the vaccination forum, or agree to be at an impasse in this thread, imo.
 

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That is so ridiculous. I read a study a few weeks ago that supposedly proved that lobsters feel pain when you boil them alive. At the time I thought, "Wow, there were some well-spent research dollars! I mean, no sh*t animals feel pain when they're boiled alive!" But apparently, it's not obvious to everyone that living things feel pain.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover View Post
This is pretty offensive. There are people on here that think vaxing is ok and to say that we don't think babies are persons is totally rude. I did vax my kids and I would do it again in a hearbeat. And I can promise you that I absolutely think they are people.
Hey hey, if you don't support vaccines to protect the herd then no reason to take offense! I was talking about the sacrificial reason for vaccinating, not about the vaccines themselves. This is in the forefront of my mind b/c I was just discussing why herd immunity isn't 'real' and the other person said I should vaccinate my daughter to protect the adults. Um, no!

(And regardless of whether your children are vaccinated or vaccine free, it is factual that they contain ingredients toxic to humans.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuamami View Post
That is so ridiculous. I read a study a few weeks ago that supposedly proved that lobsters feel pain when you boil them alive. At the time I thought, "Wow, there were some well-spent research dollars! I mean, no sh*t animals feel pain when they're boiled alive!" But apparently, it's not obvious to everyone that living things feel pain.

ok if my internet wasn't so slow i would put the smiley-spitting-out-the-beverage here. that is hilarious!
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuamami View Post
That is so ridiculous. I read a study a few weeks ago that supposedly proved that lobsters feel pain when you boil them alive. At the time I thought, "Wow, there were some well-spent research dollars! I mean, no sh*t animals feel pain when they're boiled alive!" But apparently, it's not obvious to everyone that living things feel pain.

Oh my....
I can not believe someone spent the time to "research" that. Wow. There are no words.

As for the original topic... well I can't believe that anyone would think that babies don't feel pain. So sad. I will say that, thankfully, no medical staff I've encountered has expressed this thought. I actually had a nicu nurse chew me out for questioning a procedure for my son (she thought I was questioning the pain meds that went with it, not the procedure itself) telling me "he feels pain too, you know!"
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
wow! that is my theory....people don't think babies are persons! we cut them, poke them, pull them out into the world and scrub them, ignore them, feed them carp that we wouldn't eat if we were paid to do it...we shoot them up w/ toxins for the good of the rest of the population (e.g. the adults) we make them CIO to fall asleep. we mutilate their bodies.

sick.
Seriously!

Today I was watching the news and a reporter said of Michael Jackson something along the lines of "he was better off talking to children than real people" and no one batted an eye, asked what he meant, he didn't so much as pause to think to rephrase!! We really do not view babies or children as PEOPLE in our society. Wow.
 

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Why on earth would anyone think a baby could go through open heart surgery and not feel pain? How can anyone be that stupid??? I really can't believe anyone would think that cause it is just so far from reality these people should NOT be practicing medicine!

My daughter needed an abscess lanced in the doctors office and they gave her morphine for it. She was 7 months old. When it needed repeated a few weeks later they gave her a tad more because they felt she was in too much pain the first time. (then sent her off by ambulance to the hospital cause they thought she stopped breathing... nope my babies cry til they are blue unless you blow in their face.) This was back in.. oh '99.

Oh and I had surgery in '76 at 5 and I was given anesthesia. Maybe I had reached the pain feeling threshold?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CottontailKate View Post
Fortunately, the medical establishment has realized that babies do indeed feel pain and have worked aggressively to assure that they are comfortable in any type of procedure. As a mom who had three kids in the NICU, I can say how happy I was with the pain management and attention to my child's comfort I received by all doctors, nurses, therapists and basically everyone we encountered there.
I agree, my oldest ds was born at 31 weeks. The doctors and nurses in the NICU were very careful not to cause any pain they could avoid. Heck, they were careful not to even startle him so he wouldn't burn up any calories unnecessarily.
My second ds has special needs and the doctors have gone above and beyond to ensure his comfort when he needs to undergo tests.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised people would actually believe babies can't feel pain but I'm not. I'm glad things are at least getting better in that regard though.
 

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Babies can feel pain. But, that fact is well estabilished in the medical community. The deate is over, everyone knows they can feel pain.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Oh and I had surgery in '76 at 5 and I was given anesthesia. Maybe I had reached the pain feeling threshold?
You reached the I can tell mommy and daddy exactly what you did to me threshhold.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
wow! that is my theory....people don't think babies are persons! we cut them, poke them, pull them out into the world and scrub them, ignore them, feed them carp that we wouldn't eat if we were paid to do it...we shoot them up w/ toxins for the good of the rest of the population (e.g. the adults) we make them CIO to fall asleep. we mutilate their bodies.

sick.
I agree totally and 100%!!!!
all for the greater good, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eepster View Post
You reached the I can tell mommy and daddy exactly what you did to me threshhold.
so true! worked for a DR and he used this theory all the time :puke:
 
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