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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Monday Documentary: Death To America<br>
In the first of a two part series, Michael Goldfarb looks at the rise of Anti-Americanism in Turkey and Venezuela.<br><br>
Will add link to BBC's "The Monday Documentary" later . . . right now it is from last Monday's.
 

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<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/6588603.stm" target="_blank">This one I believe<br></a>
 

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I havent seen the docu. but as an american living in the UK I have noticed that the rest of the world hates america, even before all the mess of the last few years. If you think about it people hate those who are on top. How many people did america have to trample on to get where it is? You could go so far back into history to its earliest days. In this way America is no different than any other empire in history tho. However, the world is different now. the 'little guys' have big nukes and are armed to the teeth. My dh keeps saying that America's days are numbered and he doesnt want to go back. I dont blame him. I see america so differently now that Im not living there.
 

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I really recommend that you listen to the documentary (it is in the link). It is produced by an American journalist (so no bias there) to help Americans understand where the rest of the world is coming from.<br><br>
While I agree that whoever is the Empire at the moment is never popular, the US government's politics, behaviour and strategies towards other countries has been horrendous at times. And no, not only since Bush, though Bush has been really a master at it.<br><br>
For example, every single military dictator in Brazil (my country) had full back up of the US. Those were the darkest days in our history and it baffled that my American friends had no idea it had happened (some were eve angry at me for accusing the best country in the world of such acts)<br><br>
It is obvious that empires have trampled countries on their way up, but in this day and age, is it wise for the US to keep on repeating behaviours from a time when there was no such a thing as human rights? Also the US keeps on doing all this on the pretence they are "helping spread democracy" or "get rid of evil" That definitely does not help the world love that government very much.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>genifer</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8000177"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I havent seen the docu. but as an american living in the UK I have noticed that the rest of the world hates america, even before all the mess of the last few years. If you think about it people hate those who are on top. How many people did america have to trample on to get where it is? You could go so far back into history to its earliest days. In this way America is no different than any other empire in history tho. However, the world is different now. the 'little guys' have big nukes and are armed to the teeth. My dh keeps saying that America's days are numbered and he doesnt want to go back. I dont blame him. I see america so differently now that Im not living there.</div>
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you Polihaupt for the link. I was trying to listen yesterday while DS kept being inspired with his art and wanting to share . . . gee - it is so much easier to concentrate when the DH & DS aren't here.<br><br>
It is a relatively short programme, interestingly enough ended with a man who says he's been fighting since he was 14 and today he is 85 and still fighting against the US. The history of the US's coming to and staying in power is a tangled web.<br><br>
I wish I could find the broadcast in print as well because I need all the help I can get in getting facts straight, and from hearing to retaining is a long way. There was this daughter (?Her name was Virgina Beckencorp(?) - of - ?a general? - ?a political leader? - - ?who won and then lost a revolution? Anyway She is living in the US - and what made me go "!YES!" was her observation that the citizens have a lot more power than they realize.<br><br>
I DO believe that individuals DO have a power - so when people try to show me that the pResident is just a puppet and he has less culpability in his actions I have to disagree. I am amazed at how in my own personal life how much effect one person can have on transpiring my life - sometime reading one sentence at the right time can be amazing - so the choices of the most powerful person in the world does have an effect - it isn't just the variety of systems set up around him - he makes his choices who he listens to and how he responds.<br><br>
Whta is tragic is the degree of apathy of the US citizen. I honestly believe that the majority of the population doesn't want to contemplate the ethics of our country's behaviour - as long as their quality of life - their path to aquiring things - isn't hindered. The goal of living is based on consummerism.<br><br>
One thing that consistantly saddens me is the lack of awareness and concern the average US citizen has about the rest of the world. Here is the world's most powerful country - and in decidiing who is going to head that country they are more concerned with who makes them feel good than who has the most experience in the job. A vast majority of the citizens don't know why the world "hates" them and won't even venture to find out why. Or if they do make an attempt to understand they basically just deny the validity of the arguements and go on their pretty lives.<br><br>
Recently I rented "Marie Antoinette" - the Sophia Coppola film starring Kirsten Dunst. And I really hated it. It was cinematogically pretty - but the American accents were to me like a scratch on a painting - and to me the script was plodding and poorly acted. BUT!! I thought there just had to be something about this film - no one could have let it get this far and be so bad - maybe they were actually trying to make a connection between Marie A and the US now . . . and when I thought of that - the film started havíng a greater meaning.<br><br>
Querry - - - what if L.Amer. chose to stop supplying to the US and attempted to live on their own and or join with the EU - would the US become violent? Would the American people desperate to have cheap oil allow it?
 

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*scrathing my head* - my spouse is American and according to her she has never experienced any hostility(except from refugees from certain countries).<br><br>
How is USA any different than China who is happily buying oil from Sudan, not caring a bit about darfur. Happily crushing any buds of human rights.<br><br>
Or Russia.Look what it's doing right now to it's indigenous people or what it is trying to do to Estonia, just check the news.<br><br>
Yeah, USA has done lots of bad things but do not try to give it some number one Demon title.<br><br>
The Bigger the Empires get, more scared yet more hungry for power(..money...land...) they get.<br><br>
Who knows how evil Sweden would be if they were as big&rich as USA or Russia?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kxsiven</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8004898"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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Who knows how evil Sweden would be if they were as big&rich as USA or Russia?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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OMG! I am imagining evil Swedish tyrants forcing everyone drive Volvos, eat Wasa and shop at Ikea! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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We immigrated to Australia and people always ask if we're from Canada. I asked an Aussie why people always say "Canada," instead of America and he said "It's safer that way, because if you say "America" and the person's from Canada, they get mad." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">*scrathing my head* - my spouse is American and according to her she has never experienced any hostility (except from refugees from certain countries).</td>
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Well I'm very happy for her. I have very rarely been personaly the recipient of hostilities in my 15 years of living abroad, however, I have very often witnessed "America bashing". I have always been "excused" from the accusations. It seems over here people love "their" US citizens, but hate the country's policies.<br><br>
I think it cannot really be denied that there is a geat deal of hatred out there for the US - and the fact that your spouse has not experienced any does not in any way change the facts of what has been said here.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">How is USA any different than China who . . .<br>
Or Russia . . .</td>
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I'm not sure what your point is here - the topic is discussing the BBC report about hostile feelings of Venezuelans, based on their personal experiences over a period of decades. If you wish to open up threads based on China and Russia I'd find them very enlightening and interesting, I'm sure.<br><br>
The arguement of comparing the US injustices to other countries in order to lessen the arguement of why the US is hated in Venezuela is in my opinion not a valid one.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Yeah, USA has done lots of bad things but do not try to give it some number one Demon title.</td>
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I don't recall where I made the statement that I have given the USA the "number one Demon title" - but it is the number one power - it is my land of birth and citizenship - and I'll bet that it is the land facing the greatest amount of hatred throughout the world at this moment - so it is important to me that I understand why. And understanding means not belittling the information at hand because a.) I've not been personally hurt by it and b.) there are other demons out there in the world as well. I care very much that my land is hated and believe that it is possible to remedy and possibly change that. But it can only happen when the injustices are exposed and dealt with and not just pushed under some convenient excuse of a denial mechanism.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The Bigger the Empires get, more scared yet more hungry for power(..money...land...) they get.</td>
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What bothers me about this is that these Empires are not just some vague building or corporation - they are people - and I am part of that empire - and I hate being associated with these attributes . . . scared/hungry for power money land . . . and the fact that a majority of the people are not out struggling to free their land of a disreputable and dangerous reputation - but rather are worrying about the price of their next gas fill up for their vacation to Disneyworld, is a bit sad for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>genifer</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8000177"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My dh keeps saying that America's days are numbered and he doesn't want to go back. I don't blame him. I see america so differently now that I'm not living there.</div>
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I just wanted to say that I can relate to what you two are going through with these two comments. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">dingogirl<br>
We immigrated to Australia and people always ask if we're from Canada. I asked an Aussie why people always say "Canada," instead of America and he said "It's safer that way, because if you say "America" and the person's from Canada, they get mad."</td>
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wink<br>
I was sensitized by some South Americans a long time ago that to say, "Americans" and mean only the USA is insulting . . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6610333.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6610333.stm</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Venezuela has said that it has taken control of the massive Orinoco Belt oil projects as part of President Hugo Chavez's nationalisation drive.<br><br>
Many of the world's biggest oil companies agreed to transfer operational control to the government.<br><br>
Bolivia's President Evo Morales said his country's takeover of gas fields one year ago had been "a blessing".<br><br>
Mr Chavez has also said he wants to pull Venezuela out of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.</td>
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Hmmmm . . . and with the US's desire to have their oil . . . is Venuzuela in for another helping hand from the US?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/6619255.stm" target="_blank">Here</a> is the link to part two in case anyone is interested. I live in Berlin - the third largest Turkish city, and this report is very interesting to me . . . the degree of hatred in the world for the US must not be ignored. It hasn't always been this way.<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Turkey is a secular democracy and Muslim nation. It sits geographically and politically between East and West and as recently as 2000, Turks had a comparatively favourable view of the US. (over 50% positive rating)<br><br>
A more recent survey showed that now just 12% of Turks see the US in a positive light.</td>
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Is this showing a good US foreign policy?<br><br>
This is scary.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>polihaupt</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8005052"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">OMG! I am imagining evil Swedish tyrants forcing everyone drive Volvos, eat Wasa and shop at Ikea! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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*cough* *Nestle* *cough* *cough*<br><br>
We don't have the monopoly on evil corperations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just wonder - does the US realize the degree of hatred out there for their country? And if so do they care?<br><br>
What is scarey about this is that it doesn't seem like the damage that has been done by this administration will be able to be repaired with a new administration - the neagative views of the US seem to be permanent.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kxsiven</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8004898"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">*scrathing my head* - my spouse is American and according to her she has never experienced any hostility(except from refugees from certain countries).<br><br>
How is USA any different than China who is happily buying oil from Sudan, not caring a bit about darfur. Happily crushing any buds of human rights.<br><br>
Or Russia.Look what it's doing right now to it's indigenous people or what it is trying to do to Estonia, just check the news.<br><br>
Yeah, USA has done lots of bad things but do not try to give it some number one Demon title.<br></div>
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<br><br>
Thank you.<br><br><br>
This is one of those sad facts of the world ... the US is demonized as "the Great Satan" (it's not just in Iran) and it's the symbol of all that is evil and powerful to the world. And yes, the US has done a lot to deserve a whole lot of hate, but a whole lot of other places have done equally bad or worse and don't get that kind of hatred ... it's all reserved for the US (and the "little Satan" who will currently remain nameless).<br><br>
I used to think it was some kind of weird double-standard, the way the rest of the evils of the peoples of the world are ignored and only the US (and the other guy) are blamed for every wrong imaginable.<br><br>
Have since come to think it's a whole lot of jealousy of the standard of living in the US and a whole lot of envy of the power and influence and just a little bit of resentment at all the wrong that's been done in its name.<br><br>
And maybe even some bigotry.<br><br><br><br><br>
Everyone wants to knock the guy at the top down.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
And yeah, will get to listen to the link. Thanks. (Have yet to figure out the radio stations 'round here.)
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>merpk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8094602"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thank you.<br><br><br>
This is one of those sad facts of the world ... the US is demonized as "the Great Satan" (it's not just in Iran) and it's the symbol of all that is evil and powerful to the world. And yes, the US has done a lot to deserve a whole lot of hate, but a whole lot of other places have done equally bad or worse and don't get that kind of hatred ... it's all reserved for the US (and the "little Satan" who will currently remain nameless).<br><br>
I used to think it was some kind of weird double-standard, the way the rest of the evils of the peoples of the world are ignored and only the US (and the other guy) are blamed for every wrong imaginable.<br><br>
Have since come to think it's a whole lot of jealousy of the standard of living in the US and a whole lot of envy of the power and influence and just a little bit of resentment at all the wrong that's been done in its name.<br><br>
And maybe even some bigotry.<br><br><br><br><br>
Everyone wants to knock the guy at the top down.<br><br><br></div>
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I've always thought this too. Never could understand the bashing and self-hatred some who live here exhibit....and we wonder why others in the rest of the world act the same way? Yes its more complicated then that I know.<br><br>
I am not naive about this nations history of colonization, slavery, state meddling, etc.....but what I still understand is that the US is still the #1 democracy in the world. We are often number one is response care and giving and charities, and helping the "underdog", etc....... and millions strive and long to come here for a variety of reasons.<br><br>
Some jealousy and resentment?....indeed.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Have since come to think it's a whole lot of jealousy of the standard of living in the US and a whole lot of envy of the power and influence and just a little bit of resentment at all the wrong that's been done in its name.</td>
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If this were true, then one would expect to see the same level of animosity in the world for the United States since at least the end of World War 2, since the US has been the premier superpower since even before then. But we don't see that, do we?<br><br>
But talking the general publics of these countries being envious of American "power and influence" sounds rather strange in any case. It seems to me that only certain kinds of nationalistic Americans that get absorbed in the stupid question of "which country is number one." I think that people in other countries base their own self image on other things. I also don't think that you feel the impulse to worry about power and influence in this way yourself, personally. So why are you projecting this on others?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think it is also vital to notice that this degree of animosity has grown since 2000 - from former friendly nations as well. Honestly, here I doubt very much that it is jealousy - they are more apalled at the gall and shocked at the inhumanity. For a German only 2 weeks of vacation a year is cruel and unusual punichment! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
It would be just swell if you could listen to the report because it goes into more than just Turkey. there is so much more to this than jealousy and as long as the US population continues to say "We don't deserve this - they are jealous - let them eat cake" the hatred and frustration at not being heard will grow.<br><br>
And I also don't understand what the criteria are for a #1 democracy is. Because, personally, I think that a parlimentary based democracy represent the nations better and are more just. I would love to see some "rating scale" for a democracy. Just curious, where do you get the fact that the US has the #1? I am really very serious about this - where did you find this information?
 

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What happened in 2000 to make the former-friendly nations raise the animosity level?<br><br><br><br>
What did the US do in 2000?
 
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