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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have thoughts or advice on this one:<br>
It became clear that the midwife we chose was a mistake and that neither of us trusted her enough to continue working with her. We had three visits and in those three visits we paid in total 1300 out of pocket with the belief that she would be billing insurance.<br>
We told her we would not be able to work with her and she said we would be responsible for paying the whole 3800 dollars.<br>
Now she can't bill insurance because that would be fraudulent since she will NOT be at our birth so now it looks like we are expected to pay someone that I don't believe should get more than the custumary amount for three office visits More than the amount we would have paid if we went with her since insurance will not be covering it.<br>
I assume we will need legal aid, but would like to know any thoughts on the matter.<br>
this is very upsetting one because I will be compensating someone who we do not believe is a good midwife but also because will be having alot of expenses already because we will be going out-of-network in our insurance with the midwife we will be using and taking unpaid leave at the same time.
 

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Did you have a contract? My contract states that if we terminate services, she will keep the initial deposit plus $65 (I think) per prenatal visit after the first 2 or 3. That's not specific, but it's something like that.
 

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I do not see why you would be expected to pay. Did you sign a contract or anything like that? If so go back and look at what the contract says. Unfortunately if you did sign a contract and it says you are liable to pay the full amount even if her services are not used then most likely you will be expected to pay. But even with a contract I would still consult a lawyer if I were you.
 

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Oh no Cynde!<br>
Did you sign a contract? If not, you owe her nothing beyond those three visits..if you did, check the verbage.<br>
My contract states that if I change caregivers before birth, I am only responsible for a portion of the full charge.<br>
I do not believe that what this midwife is requesting is ethical at all...<br>
It sounds like she's intimidating you to stay with her or to punish you by financial threats.<br>
P.S. Kim has been wanting to talk to you! I am pming you her phone number per her request.
 

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Ethically, I think you are only bound to compensate her for her time thus far, and perhaps some kind of non-refundable deposit if that's how her fee structure works.<br><br>
But I agree, see what the contract states.<br><br>
There are always going to be a certain number of women who drop out of care before birth (moving, miscarriage, needing to switch to an OB, insurance issues)...I'm surprised if she really expects to always get paid for a full pregnancy's worth of prenatals plus attending the birth, when she has not!
 

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If your insurance was going to pay her as an in-network provider (not out-of-network), then call them. They'll be very interested to know that she's making you pay for services you didn't receive. If her contract says you owe the full amount, they'll be interested in that, too.<br><br>
Better yet, tell her that you're going to call your insurance before you do. You may not end up having to call them or get a lawyer.
 

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Alot of maternity care is bundled into one fee, meaning it doesn't matter if you go for 1 prenatal visit or 20--the charge is the same. She can still bill insurance for prenatal care, and if the insurance pays out like that for doctors they would have to pay out like that to her too.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gothmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6482907"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Alot of maternity care is bundled into one fee, meaning it doesn't matter if you go for 1 prenatal visit or 20--the charge is the same. She can still bill insurance for prenatal care, and if the insurance pays out like that for doctors they would have to pay out like that to her too.</div>
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My thoughts are if this is the case, then the dispute remains between the midwife and the insurance.....not between the midwife and the client (unless there is a contract that states otherwise).
 

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It is pretty common for people to switch providers during pregnancy.....people move, for example. She should be familiar with the standard procedures (charging per visit, or up to a certain month, for example). It sounds very unprofessional of her to expect the whole $3800.<br><br>
I transferred from my MW to my OB in my 6th month. I ended up paying about $1000 to the MW (for a registration fee, initial visit, and 2 more visits). I had prepaid the entire amt, and I was refunded that money. My OB also charged me a reduced rate since I was coming in at 6 months (thus, fewer prenatal visits to provide).<br><br>
I wouldn't pay her another cent. It is more likely you are entitled to a refund. Inform your insurance company of your new provider (and the date of transfer) so that they do not pay her for services after that date of service.<br><br>
Big hugs on the stress. My transfer was stressful, too--esp the $$$ part.
 

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This happemed to us as well. Here's our take on it, maybe something will help you.<br><br>
With our first pregnancy we hired a lay midwife whose total feel was $2000 plus we had to pay for all of the labwork. She explicitly stated to us *verbally* that she billed insurance and we paid her JUST a deposit.<br><br>
A month later she cancelled our second appointment several times. I could never reach her by phone, etc. and I felt very uncomfortable with her not being available to me. The final blow came when she called us one night and said she could not bill insurance afterall but that we needed to pay her in full before she could continue "providing care". So I called back the next day, left a message stating that we would be hiring someone else and she could keep the deposit per our agreement.<br><br>
She sent us a letter asking for payment in full because she had agreed to care for me during the pregnancy. What care? One preliminary meeting and then she cancels all the rest of our appointments? Never be available?<br><br>
So we sent her a CERTIFIED letter. End of story. She kept sending us letters for a few months asking for payment. We ignored her.<br><br>
If you have a contract with her then follow it. If you had a verbal agreement with her to pay her in full regardless then follow it. If not, you need to do what you feel is right as far as compensation. $1300 seems very very generous for what she provided. I would not shell out any more money personally.<br><br>
Regardless, send everything via mail only, Certified Return Receipt Requested preferably. Keep a log of all calls, times, details, etc of contact.<br><br>
Hopefully she'll realize her errors. And, in all honesty, midwifery is a business based on word of mouth and referrals really. If she cares about her reputation she'll do whats fair for her clients.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
She must have forgotten to have me sign/see a contract because when I asked to see it (confused because I don't remember signing one or even hearing about one before we told them we weren't going to work with them anymore) they threatened that I must have stolen it and tried this scare tactic that now I will owe them 150 dollars per hour for the "legal work" involved. I said I thought it was only fair to pay a reasonable amount for the three visits we had but I had never been told that I would owe a full price if I was leaving because I was unhappy with care. Guess it is goodbye to my 1300 dollars. they acted like if I didn't run away I would be owing millions!<br>
It is so hard to stay calm and stress free with all these "distractions"
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cynde</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6487408"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">She must have forgotten to have me sign/see a contract because when I asked to see it (confused because I don't remember signing one or even hearing about one before we told them we weren't going to work with them anymore) they threatened that I must have stolen it and tried this scare tactic that now I will owe them 150 dollars per hour for the "legal work" involved. I said I thought it was only fair to pay a reasonable amount for the three visits we had but I had never been told that I would owe a full price if I was leaving because I was unhappy with care. Guess it is goodbye to my 1300 dollars. they acted like if I didn't run away I would be owing millions!<br>
It is so hard to stay calm and stress free with all these "distractions"</div>
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Well--it's good you didn't sign a contract that said something about paying in ful regardless...but it is a shame you have given money that won't be returned...<br>
I would put in a letter to the BBB and also give word of mouth about the lack of care you received...not slander if it is true...<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Wow, what a piece of work this MW is!!! Thanks goodness you ended your arrangement with her when you did!<br><br>
I would suggest you send a (certified as mentioned by PP) letter to the MW basically documenting your history with her (Dear so and so, on such and such date we starting using your services with the agreement that... We paid you such and such amount...terminated your services on such and such date due to... You indicated such and such etc etc etc) including all her accusations (accusing you of stealing the contract is outlandinsh!!!!) and threats.<br><br>
Inform her in the letter that you refuse to pay any additional monies and let her know any future demands will be seen as harrasment.<br><br>
CC (making note of this on the bottom of the letter) the BBB AND the Insurance Company that would have been covering her.<br><br>
Good luck. Hearing about things like this makes me SO angry <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Not the stress you need right now, but for me, writing and sending the letter would make me feel better by taking control of the situation and sort of give me closure.
 

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I totally agree with mom2emerson on this. YOU are the one paying her for her services, and you have every right to terminate care. As for getting the $1300 back you may be surprised. I bet if you sent a very "legal" letter copying BBB, insurance, and even some of the certification places she's a part of (NARM?) she may change her tune.<br><br>
Her demands are ridiculous. If she feels she'll lose clients, ie her livelihood, she'll come around.<br><br>
Dang, $3800, that's a lot for a midwife! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: And a bad one at that!<br><br>
Maybe post this over on Birth Professionals and get some midwives feedback before you send your letter?<br><br>
One more piece of advice: Make a plan, follow through and move on. Don't allow this one care provider spoil your pregnancy. I went through 3 providers with DS before I found one I was happy with. In the end I had to do some serious cleansing of all the negative feelings I had regarding them before I could trust someone else.<br><br>
Good luck! Let us know what happens!
 

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I agree with pp's......<br><br>
If the stress is too much, have dp handle the financial situation with the mw/insurance co/etc.<br><br>
You might also talk to your current provider about the situation, and see what is customary in your area when a woman transfers after care is begun. They should be able to give you an idea of what is reasonable, as far as payment for the services MW #1 provided.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AmyG</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6482804"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If your insurance was going to pay her as an in-network provider (not out-of-network), then call them. They'll be very interested to know that she's making you pay for services you didn't receive. If her contract says you owe the full amount, they'll be interested in that, too.<br><br>
Better yet, tell her that you're going to call your insurance before you do. You may not end up having to call them or get a lawyer.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:
 

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Couldn't you just take her to a people's court or something. What she is doing is illegal and you should get your money back. You didn't sign anything and even if you did you didn't get the services that she agreed to provide. I think the fee is less then $100 or something, but I think it would be worth it considering she has you $1300!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>stellimamo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6493057"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">BBB= Better Business Bureau</div>
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Ah, it's so obvious now <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I kept trying to figure out which midwifery/birth organization had that acronym.
 
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