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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is an unlikely ally, yes?

 

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This is an unlikely ally, yes?

I don't know. There are a lot of different reasons that people could be angry about this attempt to use business to sell vaccines to their employees.

Imagine, for example, that you have a company with a few exceptionally valuable employees and you know that one or two of those employees are not going to go along with the vaccine. People who simply can't be replaced.

Or imagine that you have a company that employs a lot of people at all levels. You know that right now it is very hard and getting harder to find the employees you need to stay open and functional. Can you really afford to lose even a few people?
 
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I thought Ben Shapiro was in favor of mandates for vaccinations? His wife is a paediatrician.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Imagine, for example, that you have a company with a few exceptionally valuable employees and you know that one or two of those employees are not going to go along with the vaccine. People who simply can't be replaced.

Or imagine that you have a company that employs a lot of people at all levels. You know that right now it is very hard and getting harder to find the employees you need to stay open and functional. Can you really afford to lose even a few people?
I agree. The vax-to-the-max mentality can have unanticipated consequences even for the most rabidly pro-vaccine.
 

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I've seen him talk a few times now, and he's stated multiple times that, whilst he's pro vaccine and urges everyone to be fully vaccinated - he's anti mandate. He doesn't believe vaccination is the government's business. He believes that is a personal decision which should be made with one's doctor. He's said that if one has the vaccine, one has nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. If a person hasn't had the vaccine, that's a risk he's taking upon himself and it's on him if he falls ill.
 

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I've seen him talk a few times now, and he's stated multiple times that, whilst he's pro vaccine and urges everyone to be fully vaccinated - he's anti mandate. He doesn't believe vaccination is the government's business. He believes that is a personal decision which should be made with one's doctor. He's said that if one has the vaccine, one has nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. If a person hasn't had the vaccine, that's a risk he's taking upon himself and it's on him if he falls ill.
It seems like fear of the unvaccinated is being driven by fear that the vaccines do not protect well. Pharma wants to have it both ways - the vaccines (their product) are great... and you need a booster so you don't get sick. People are so confused, and the media makes money by stoking that confusion and fear, while the public messaging is all over the place.

If more folks felt like Mr Shapiro, the national conversation would be much different. Unfortunately, his position is very old-school. Confidence in vaccines is not what it used to be.
 

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It seems like fear of the unvaccinated is being driven by fear that the vaccines do not protect well. Pharma wants to have it both ways - the vaccines (their product) are great... and you need a booster so you don't get sick. People are so confused, and the media makes money by stoking that confusion and fear, while the public messaging is all over the place.

If more folks felt like Mr Shapiro, the national conversation would be much different. Unfortunately, his position is very old-school. Confidence in vaccines is not what it used to be.
I don't think confidence in vaccines was ever what they pretend it used to be. Consider, for example, that when states put in mandates for school vaccines, they put in exemptions. This was a time when most legislators could remember having measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and so on. Seems obvious that legislators didn't mind the occasional family skipping some or all of the vaccines.
 

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I don't think confidence in vaccines was ever what they pretend it used to be. Consider, for example, that when states put in mandates for school vaccines, they put in exemptions. This was a time when most legislators could remember having measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and so on. Seems obvious that legislators didn't mind the occasional family skipping some or all of the vaccines.
Yes, but I think part of the reason for that was because there was a sense that they (those avoiding vaccines) were only putting themselves at risk - that others would be protected by their own choice to be vaccinated. One of the smartest things that the pro-mandatory vaccine movement has done, is the your-choice-is-placing-others-at-risk mantra. Of course, it's a double-edged sword, because once you start pointing out that vaccines aren't 100% effective, you start to undermine people's faith in them. However, I think some would argue that the end justifies the means. Sort of - if we have to undermine faith in vaccines to get more mandates - so be it.
 

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of the smartest things that the pro-mandatory vaccine movement has done, is the your-choice-is-placing-others-at-risk mantra.
Yes, I was slammed with that accusation in 1976 during the swine flu fiasco. The mother of a friend of mine told me that I am healthy despite not being vaccinated because everyone else took the risk of getting vaccinated for me! Whatever. At least she admitted that getting the vaccine involves a risk.

OTOH, my DC father told me that the people who are vaccinated are the ones who are carriers of the disease and are spreading it around. There is no evidence to what doctors tell us that the vaccine evacuates the body within 24 hours and "teaches the immune system" to recognize and fight the virus/bacteria in that time. It may work for some, but not for everyone. In the meantime, some people become carriers and shedders of the virus or spreaders of the bacteria infecting others.

What evidence is there that non-vaccinated persons carry the disease unless they have symptoms?
 
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