We had a beautiful homebirth 3 months and are just getting around to the birth cert. b/c we need it for travel in month. my local dept of health services(long beach, ca) won't issue one until we have avisit from a public health nurse! i am so pissed! can i refuse? has any one else been through this? it seems so invasive. like i need a nurse coming to my house and talking to me about vaccines!
birth certificate? mad!!!!!
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Did the health services department say that vaccinations will be one of the things that the nurse discusses at a home visit to verify a birth certificate application? Or are you assuming just because it is a "public health nurse" that the topic of vaccinations will come up?<br><br>
I don't know California laws, but I do recall reading here at MDC from others seeking birth certificates in California that verification of pregnancy and birth is a big deal there.<br><br>
And regardless of what the nurse chooses to share with you at the visit, you ultimately make the choices for your child and your family. I have found the best way to handle unwanted advice and suggestions is to pretend to be interested in what they are saying, ask a few questions to feign this interest, thank them for sharing at the end of the conversation/visit and then make your own choice in the best interests of your child and your family.<br><br>
It's okay to vent and be upset that the government is making you jump through hoops you think are unnecessary, but don't forget the most important thing: you love your baby and made the choice to homebirth to give your baby the very best arrival in this world that you could.<br><br>
hugs to you mama... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
warmly,<br>
claudia
I don't know California laws, but I do recall reading here at MDC from others seeking birth certificates in California that verification of pregnancy and birth is a big deal there.<br><br>
And regardless of what the nurse chooses to share with you at the visit, you ultimately make the choices for your child and your family. I have found the best way to handle unwanted advice and suggestions is to pretend to be interested in what they are saying, ask a few questions to feign this interest, thank them for sharing at the end of the conversation/visit and then make your own choice in the best interests of your child and your family.<br><br>
It's okay to vent and be upset that the government is making you jump through hoops you think are unnecessary, but don't forget the most important thing: you love your baby and made the choice to homebirth to give your baby the very best arrival in this world that you could.<br><br>
hugs to you mama... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
warmly,<br>
claudia
I wouldn't assume the PHN will be awful. We had an in-house visit after the birth of our second (just a couple days after) and all she did was check out me and the baby, make sure we were doing OK and ask if we had an appropriate support system or needed any flyers (left it at that when I said yes and no, respectively). It wasn't at all bad. I sat on the bed holding DS the whole time, she didn't say a word about no crib or only one bed for four people, or anything.<br><br>
I saw a PHN a week ago and she was great, she gave me great midwife recommendations (the same ones I got from the ladies here on MDC). So I don't think they're all awful...it might go well.<br><br>
And of course, feel free to play "broken record" if the PHN doesn't turn out to be so understanding. This might just be something that is easier lived through than fighting, kwim?
I saw a PHN a week ago and she was great, she gave me great midwife recommendations (the same ones I got from the ladies here on MDC). So I don't think they're all awful...it might go well.<br><br>
And of course, feel free to play "broken record" if the PHN doesn't turn out to be so understanding. This might just be something that is easier lived through than fighting, kwim?
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I had a hospital birth with #1, and a home health nurse came by a few days later. Maybe this is different than a public health nurse; this one was an employee of the hospital. She was very bf-supportive, asked all kinds of questions and helped me get some good bf positions, since I was having a little bit of trouble, and she also said the safest place for dd to sleep was in my bed!<br><br>
I don't know if I really needed that visit for health reasons, but it wasn't at all bad.<br><br>
If you get some jerk you could ask her to leave, and try and get someone else next time.
I don't know if I really needed that visit for health reasons, but it wasn't at all bad.<br><br>
If you get some jerk you could ask her to leave, and try and get someone else next time.
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24,543 Posts
I am in Southern California also.<br><br>
My last baby was born twelve years ago, delivered at home, a UC.<br><br>
I filed a delayed BC a year later - I was told that LA county will accuse you of baby buying/kidnapping if you file too soon. (?)<br><br>
This is what I did:<br><br>
I placed an announcement in the newspaper.<br>
I went to the pediatrician (Fleiss) and obtained a dated letter of a live, healthy male child, weight and length.<br>
I obtained a Wolcott form from the stationery store "Affidavit of Birth", filled it out, and had it notarized.<br>
I placed an announcement in my house of worship newletter.<br><br>
I never had any problems.<br>
I obtained a SS# with the affidavit of birth.<br>
No problems...
My last baby was born twelve years ago, delivered at home, a UC.<br><br>
I filed a delayed BC a year later - I was told that LA county will accuse you of baby buying/kidnapping if you file too soon. (?)<br><br>
This is what I did:<br><br>
I placed an announcement in the newspaper.<br>
I went to the pediatrician (Fleiss) and obtained a dated letter of a live, healthy male child, weight and length.<br>
I obtained a Wolcott form from the stationery store "Affidavit of Birth", filled it out, and had it notarized.<br>
I placed an announcement in my house of worship newletter.<br><br>
I never had any problems.<br>
I obtained a SS# with the affidavit of birth.<br>
No problems...
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24,543 Posts
SS however did give my DH grief with the paperwork, so I asked him what happened, and went to another SS office.<br><br>
No problems.
No problems.
I'm in California too (Northern) & I've had 2 homebirths - each in a different county. The hoops I had to jump through depended on the county, but in each case I had to go to the vital statistics office and "show" my baby. The 1st time was pretty easy, but the 2nd time (new county) they wanted medical records, pics of me preg, u/s pics, all sorts of proof. I happened to have pretty much everything they asked for but my feeling was that it wasn't mostly necessary - at least to the woman who took all our paperwork at the office. She was like, "oh yeah, whatever." Good luck.
I suppose it depends on what type of mudwife you had maybe? My second was born in Northern California...We had a nurse midwife though, so maybe she counted as the public health nurse?<br><br>
All we had to do was go to the vital records office and show the baby. They knew our midwife already and everything...<br><br>
Now, getting a social security card. That has been a huge pain in the A**!
All we had to do was go to the vital records office and show the baby. They knew our midwife already and everything...<br><br>
Now, getting a social security card. That has been a huge pain in the A**!
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<div style="font-style:italic;">Now, getting a social security card. That has been a huge pain in the A**!</div>
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What county in N. CA are you? I'm in San Joaquin now, but was in Alameda for my first. We had no trouble at all in getting a SS card either time. Just filled out the standard form & took it to the office along with the birth certificate. That was it. What kind of trouble are they giving you???
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamamaya</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Now, getting a social security card. That has been a huge pain in the A**!</div>
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What county in N. CA are you? I'm in San Joaquin now, but was in Alameda for my first. We had no trouble at all in getting a SS card either time. Just filled out the standard form & took it to the office along with the birth certificate. That was it. What kind of trouble are they giving you???
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Hi milkymama. Hey, we're neighbors! I live in Lakewood & work in LB. I just recently went to the LA Co. Health Dept. to get dd's birth cert. going. We still have to wait to have a Public Health Investigator come to our home before it's final. They sent someone over for ds' birth cert. also. He didn't say anything to me about vax or anything. He asked why we chose to have a homebirth, but that's it. He didn't stay for more than 2 minutes. I wouldn't worry about it. I noticed on the form I received from the dept. of health that Long Beach & Pasadena are the two cities that do their own birth cert. registration now. Too bad I had to drive all the way to downtown. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> Oh well. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
After my 2yo's birth, although in Ohio, the PHN was AWESOME!! He was a guy, which was weird (I'm so sexist about birth). Anyway, he basically asked if we had a support system as well, asked us if we wanted the PKU test (we didn't, he made no fuss), then asked if we had taken the baby to doctor. We told him NOWAY!! We had taken him to the chiro, however, and this intrigued him greatly because he had learned about the dangers of vaccinations from our chiro at a class. SO we had a great visit, and I think he walked away very much enlightened!!<br><br>
As for the social security card--we had no probs with the first but the second was a pain! They didn't mark the box on the birth cert form and it was submitted. We finally went to apply when he was 2--in a different state (SC) THe woman was rude and horrible to me. SHe told me she would not give me a SSN without him being vaccinated--she accused me of stealing him or taking him from another country (I was sitting there nursing him and his blond curly head--and he is my identical twin!) ANyway, I left in tears. And hour later, I came back, and made a BIG scene!! In front of the whole office I declared that my personal religious choice was being discriminated against by a government agency and that I was going to call the ACLU. I was in tears, and ended my rant with "You have hurt one family today--I will not take it quietly." I DID call the ACLU that day(they were very kind, and promised to look into it), and the SSN office in Washington (they told me that there is no standard requirements for obtaining a #--that is was at the discretion of the individual office!) Anyway, the NEXT DAY, I received the sweetest call from a woman in the main county SSN office, saying to please come and complete the application for my son's SSN. I had it in 7 days!! The ACLU never even called them, but the threat of them REALLY worked for us!!<br><br>
Sometimes, threats are the only thing they can hear. THey can really attempt to walk all over you!
As for the social security card--we had no probs with the first but the second was a pain! They didn't mark the box on the birth cert form and it was submitted. We finally went to apply when he was 2--in a different state (SC) THe woman was rude and horrible to me. SHe told me she would not give me a SSN without him being vaccinated--she accused me of stealing him or taking him from another country (I was sitting there nursing him and his blond curly head--and he is my identical twin!) ANyway, I left in tears. And hour later, I came back, and made a BIG scene!! In front of the whole office I declared that my personal religious choice was being discriminated against by a government agency and that I was going to call the ACLU. I was in tears, and ended my rant with "You have hurt one family today--I will not take it quietly." I DID call the ACLU that day(they were very kind, and promised to look into it), and the SSN office in Washington (they told me that there is no standard requirements for obtaining a #--that is was at the discretion of the individual office!) Anyway, the NEXT DAY, I received the sweetest call from a woman in the main county SSN office, saying to please come and complete the application for my son's SSN. I had it in 7 days!! The ACLU never even called them, but the threat of them REALLY worked for us!!<br><br>
Sometimes, threats are the only thing they can hear. THey can really attempt to walk all over you!
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I made a scene like that in the SS office once.<br><br>
The security guard grabbed me and tossed me out the door and laughed, saying,"Just taking out the trash!" Ha! Ha!<br><br>
I called their 800 number and they told me the office and guard were right to do this.<br><br>
This was 1997, before the 9-11 WTC tragedy.<br><br>
I called the ACLU and got a recording.
The security guard grabbed me and tossed me out the door and laughed, saying,"Just taking out the trash!" Ha! Ha!<br><br>
I called their 800 number and they told me the office and guard were right to do this.<br><br>
This was 1997, before the 9-11 WTC tragedy.<br><br>
I called the ACLU and got a recording.
We had no problem getting the birth cert. My midwife in So Ca gave an affidavit of pg and live birth. No visit from a nurse.<br><br>
Now getting SS # I did have issues there. She was like I need more id for the child. All I had was the birth cert. and PKU test copy. I gave her those. Then she wanted more ID for ds that was w/i the last 30 days. So I showed her a photocopy from Dr. Sears office. I can't believe it...she took that but wouldn't accept anything from MW!<br><br>
Sorry you're having problems but I can't see why they need to come into your home. I would think a cert. of pg and live birth would be enough. Oh, I did have to bring the baby into the office w/ me to get the cert.
Now getting SS # I did have issues there. She was like I need more id for the child. All I had was the birth cert. and PKU test copy. I gave her those. Then she wanted more ID for ds that was w/i the last 30 days. So I showed her a photocopy from Dr. Sears office. I can't believe it...she took that but wouldn't accept anything from MW!<br><br>
Sorry you're having problems but I can't see why they need to come into your home. I would think a cert. of pg and live birth would be enough. Oh, I did have to bring the baby into the office w/ me to get the cert.
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Applejuice, I hope horrible things happen to those people. Maybe they're dead now.<br><br>
Are these problems with birth certs for UC births only, or are attended homebirths this much of a PIA too?
Are these problems with birth certs for UC births only, or are attended homebirths this much of a PIA too?
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My 2 homebirths were a PIA to register due to the fact that we used a direct-entry midwife. The dept. of health wouldn't take any paperwork from her since she isn't a licensed midwife. So we didn't have the proof of prenatal & doctors note after the baby was born that they 'require'. In that case, we needed to supply 3 notarized letters from friends saying they knew me while I was pregnant and to verify my address. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
If you don't meet all the requirements, they have to send someone from Public Health to your home. It is a big pain, but well worth it to have a homebirth!
If you don't meet all the requirements, they have to send someone from Public Health to your home. It is a big pain, but well worth it to have a homebirth!
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Eventually, they will give you the birth cert even if you delivered your baby all by yourself and no one ever saw you pregnant and you don't have any family or friends. They don't want to take the risk of having an unregistered citizen.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>oshunmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">As for the social security card--we had no probs with the first but the second was a pain! They didn't mark the box on the birth cert form and it was submitted. We finally went to apply when he was 2--in a different state (SC) THe woman was rude and horrible to me. SHe told me she would not give me a SSN without him being vaccinated--she accused me of stealing him or taking him from another country (I was sitting there nursing him and his blond curly head--and he is my identical twin!) ANyway, I left in tears.</div>
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DUH! edited to say that I realized this was from you oshunmama and you already told me wher you live. :LOL<br><br>
OMGOSH! this happened in South Carolina? Which county/city? For my dd's birth (I live in Columbia, SC), my midwife mailed or turned in the birth certificate form and a few weeks later I went into the Vital Stats office to pick up the birth certificate. No questions asked. The SS card was mailed to me a bit later. No one ever asked me anything about providing proof for the SS card...maybe because the midwife filled out the form and the box was checked I guess. But how terrible for you to have to go through that! I am glad though that you got it after your "scene."<br><br>
I will have to remember that!
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>oshunmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">As for the social security card--we had no probs with the first but the second was a pain! They didn't mark the box on the birth cert form and it was submitted. We finally went to apply when he was 2--in a different state (SC) THe woman was rude and horrible to me. SHe told me she would not give me a SSN without him being vaccinated--she accused me of stealing him or taking him from another country (I was sitting there nursing him and his blond curly head--and he is my identical twin!) ANyway, I left in tears.</div>
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DUH! edited to say that I realized this was from you oshunmama and you already told me wher you live. :LOL<br><br>
OMGOSH! this happened in South Carolina? Which county/city? For my dd's birth (I live in Columbia, SC), my midwife mailed or turned in the birth certificate form and a few weeks later I went into the Vital Stats office to pick up the birth certificate. No questions asked. The SS card was mailed to me a bit later. No one ever asked me anything about providing proof for the SS card...maybe because the midwife filled out the form and the box was checked I guess. But how terrible for you to have to go through that! I am glad though that you got it after your "scene."<br><br>
I will have to remember that!
it was easy to get BCs and SS#s for all my kids here in indiana<br>
but i did have to take them into the office when i filled out paperwork<br>
they did not ask for any 'proof' from a doctor or midwife<br>
and they just checked a box to file for the ss# when i got the birth certs<br><br>
to the OP, try to consider it a convenience for you!<br>
you don't have to take your baby in to some office and wait<br>
in an uncomfortable chair in a badly decorated govt. office<br>
and nurse in front of strangers<br>
somebody will come to your home<br>
they are undoubtedly familiar w/ homebirthers<br>
and won't pass judgment, if in fact they are opposed to it<br>
after 4 kids and homebirths and RARE doctor visits, no vaxing etc.<br>
i have learned that my preemptive defensive attitude<br>
is usually not necessary<br>
they usually seem glad to be working w/ an informed and educated mama<br>
and interested in how i made my choices<br>
i have only ONE time ever had a nurse argue w/ me<br>
that my kids HAD to have vaccinations BY LAW<br>
and i just stared at her until she backed down<br>
no sweat off my back<br><br>
good luck!
but i did have to take them into the office when i filled out paperwork<br>
they did not ask for any 'proof' from a doctor or midwife<br>
and they just checked a box to file for the ss# when i got the birth certs<br><br>
to the OP, try to consider it a convenience for you!<br>
you don't have to take your baby in to some office and wait<br>
in an uncomfortable chair in a badly decorated govt. office<br>
and nurse in front of strangers<br>
somebody will come to your home<br>
they are undoubtedly familiar w/ homebirthers<br>
and won't pass judgment, if in fact they are opposed to it<br>
after 4 kids and homebirths and RARE doctor visits, no vaxing etc.<br>
i have learned that my preemptive defensive attitude<br>
is usually not necessary<br>
they usually seem glad to be working w/ an informed and educated mama<br>
and interested in how i made my choices<br>
i have only ONE time ever had a nurse argue w/ me<br>
that my kids HAD to have vaccinations BY LAW<br>
and i just stared at her until she backed down<br>
no sweat off my back<br><br>
good luck!
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lovemygirl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">OMGOSH! this happened in South Carolina? Which county/city? For my dd's birth (I live in Columbia, SC), my midwife mailed or turned in the birth certificate form and a few weeks later I went into the Vital Stats office to pick up the birth certificate. No questions asked.</div>
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I think the problem was really because 1. The birth certificate was from another state. 2. Connell was almost 2 when we finally realized a SS# wasn't coming (I know, this is lame--we had a huge life change during that time--to our defense, but you know how it goes. We had marked the box for a SS# on the cert form, but it just never came.) and lastly 3. We have not taken either of our younger two to the doctor ever--so no records. Our 13yo is a "real" person because we took him in for a broken ankle one time! LOL<br><br>
The woman was really very ugly to me , and her main issue seemed to be vaccinations. The woman who called me back and gave us the SS# was VERY nice and helpful. We actually brought her flowers when we came to the appt. LOL I was so grateful for a humble/polite attitude.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lovemygirl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">OMGOSH! this happened in South Carolina? Which county/city? For my dd's birth (I live in Columbia, SC), my midwife mailed or turned in the birth certificate form and a few weeks later I went into the Vital Stats office to pick up the birth certificate. No questions asked.</div>
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I think the problem was really because 1. The birth certificate was from another state. 2. Connell was almost 2 when we finally realized a SS# wasn't coming (I know, this is lame--we had a huge life change during that time--to our defense, but you know how it goes. We had marked the box for a SS# on the cert form, but it just never came.) and lastly 3. We have not taken either of our younger two to the doctor ever--so no records. Our 13yo is a "real" person because we took him in for a broken ankle one time! LOL<br><br>
The woman was really very ugly to me , and her main issue seemed to be vaccinations. The woman who called me back and gave us the SS# was VERY nice and helpful. We actually brought her flowers when we came to the appt. LOL I was so grateful for a humble/polite attitude.
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I knew to get it taken care of right away because after a certain amount of time it becomes much more complicated. I also knew I needed a note from a Dr. stated that I had indeed been pregnant. whatever. I guess I can see the logic in that. so armed with my letter and my 1 week old dh and I head down to the court h ouse to wait in line for way to long.<br><br>
I needed, I kid you not, a not from a ped saying it was a live birth. My living breathing 1 week old (who looked exactly like the rest of the family to boot) wasn't enough. So I had to go to a ped I have never seen before and get a note that could have just as easily been written by the lady who sent for the note becauseit isn't like the ped did a DNA test. she took my word for it. and it doesn't take a fancy degree to look at a fat cooing baby and say "yes indeed that child was born alive". She turned 4 recently and I cstill can't come to grips with the fact that they would take a random 3rd parties word for it over mine or thier own everloving eyes.
I needed, I kid you not, a not from a ped saying it was a live birth. My living breathing 1 week old (who looked exactly like the rest of the family to boot) wasn't enough. So I had to go to a ped I have never seen before and get a note that could have just as easily been written by the lady who sent for the note becauseit isn't like the ped did a DNA test. she took my word for it. and it doesn't take a fancy degree to look at a fat cooing baby and say "yes indeed that child was born alive". She turned 4 recently and I cstill can't come to grips with the fact that they would take a random 3rd parties word for it over mine or thier own everloving eyes.
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