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This mama escaped....<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Marlowe ended up at another hospital, where she had a quick, natural birth she described as "a piece of cake." She didn't know about the first hospital's action until her husband was told by a reporter.</td>
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<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/parenting/05/29/childbirth.rights.ap/index.html" target="_blank">Ya' really can't believe we still live in the kind of world</a>
 

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This knd of thing makes me so pissed off!!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banghead.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banghead"><br><br>
I am glad the mama didnt budge!!!
 

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This is apalling. I am glad that she was brave and stuck to her guns. I know many women cave when so called authority figures use scare tactics like the hospital did : getting custody of the baby so that they could force the c-section if she returned. What an ego maniac the doctor must be to need to dominate a woman in such a way. This makes me so mad. We should all write the hospital letters. Or go picket them (I wish).
 

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I did like the tone of the piece, though--- it made the mothers making these decisions sound competent rather than crazy (IMO, for once).
 

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Woah. This terrifies me.<br><br>
Good article; smart Mama.
 

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Cyneburh said:
The life of Amber Marlowe's baby was not at stake! Yet this article makes it sound as though it could have been.<br><br>
QUOTE]<br><br>
Ah, but to hear many many people talk about it, the health of ALL babies being born is at stake.<br>
Have an epidural because natural childbirth is so risky...<br>
Have an episiotomy because the risk of tearing is so high...<br>
Have a scheduled c-section because vaginal birth is always so risky...<br>
Don't have a VBAC because it carries so much risk...<br>
Have your baby at a hospital because homebirth is so risky...<br>
Have an OB for your care because birth is too dangerous to risk an incompetent midwife...<br><br>
Unfortunately, there are way too many people who are on that bandwagon. Medically directed birth is absolutely right because birth is so inherently dangerous, and the chance of death of the mother and/or baby is so high, it's amazing that we all got here in the first place!!!<br><br>
Where's that barfing smilie when I need it?????
 

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:puke :puke There you go!!<br><br>
grnbn76 said:
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Cyneburh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The life of Amber Marlowe's baby was not at stake! Yet this article makes it sound as though it could have been.<br><br>
QUOTE]<br><br>
Ah, but to hear many many people talk about it, the health of ALL babies being born is at stake.<br>
Have an epidural because natural childbirth is so risky...<br>
Have an episiotomy because the risk of tearing is so high...<br>
Have a scheduled c-section because vaginal birth is always so risky...<br>
Don't have a VBAC because it carries so much risk...<br>
Have your baby at a hospital because homebirth is so risky...<br>
Have an OB for your care because birth is too dangerous to risk an incompetent midwife...<br><br>
Unfortunately, there are way too many people who are on that bandwagon. Medically directed birth is absolutely right because birth is so inherently dangerous, and the chance of death of the mother and/or baby is so high, it's amazing that we all got here in the first place!!!<br><br>
Where's that barfing smilie when I need it?????</div>
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Thanks for linking that to us. It really makes me sick how so many hospital as SOOOO seemingly pro c-section.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/splat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="splat"> This kind of thing REALLY peeves me!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy she stood her ground, though.<br><br><br>
I want to know why so many women are willing to give their birthing rights up to the docs?? Not only does it not let them do what their bodies were physiologically meant to do (and it has been done w/o docs since the dawn of time), but all of those interventions add up to one hefty medical bill!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I want to know why so many women are willing to give their birthing rights up to the docs??</td>
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I think because rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. And many women do not *want* the huge responsibility that comes with carrying and birthing a baby--- they would actually rather abdicate it. That way the problems can be the doctors fault. My midwife had me sign a form acknowledging that there are risks INHEIRANT in birth, that I would not blame her for those things. An OB (even though statistically riskier) would never do that--- the woman is paying him/her to take responsibility for that risk. Unfortunately, as we all learn eventually, the parents are the ones who have to live with the decisions made even if they didn't make them.
 

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You must remember how childbirth was moved from the home into the hospial.<br><br>
In the past, there were many deaths involved during childbirth. This ws b/c there was no knowlege of germs, bacteria and how they caused disease. In those days too, sanitary conditions were poor and housing was also inadequate. Upper-class woman began having Doctors attend their births and this became a common thing - asociated with Upper Class and nobilty.<br><br>
Then when Charity hospitals began offering the service of Doctor-led births it became accessible to all women. The lack of knowledge concerning germs, bacteria and the need for sanitary conditions, led to many complications. Thus the need for intervention arose and who was there to save the day? Doctors of course.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
Midwives were banned from attending medical school and they were not allowed to perform surgical procedures or even carry relevent equipment. This mae it impossible for midwives to practice and more and more woman sought the "safe" alternative.<br><br>
Childbirth became a business and to this day it is treated lke such by many many doctors and many many hospitals around the world.<br><br>
Women are told (in many ways) that the pain of childbirth is an outdated and unnecessary burden. Why bother enduring all that pain when you can just have [insert looong list of drugs]?! They were also scare sh*tless of dying during childbirth or their babies dying. The staus of the Doctor was revered as he saved lives and made birth a bearable and easy experience for the mother... this is the picture that was painted.<br><br>
The 50's saw the era of "knock 'em out drag 'em out" obstetrics - or Twilight Sleep where countless women were knocked out using very harmful drugs. Opiates, Morphine an other dangerous drugs, to name but a few...<br><br>
And in any business, the businessman wants one thing - you guesse it ... MONEY. And they dont want to take unecessary risk either.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
Now we have generations and generations of women who have ha their births taken away from them by the "well meaning" medical world.<br><br>
Many women still believe in the myth that birth is safer in a hospitsl - with all the bells and whistles.<br><br>
The truth is that doctors should've worked WITH midwives to make biirth safer. Instead they took over and basically screwed it up for billions of women an their babies.<br><br>
Now we are living in a techno-craving world where a lot od women still believe that it is a blessing to be able to birth in an environment where they have the latest technology on their side.<br><br>
There are more factors to consider, like the fact that we no longer believe in our bodies capabilities to birth our own children. It scares us. We no longer have mothers, aunts, grandmothers, sisters or friends to encourage us and teach us the joys of childbirth. All we have is the doctor - who s in it for the money.....
 

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EmmamaI want to know why so many women are willing to give their birthing rights up to the docs?? [/QUOTE said:
<br><br>
Unfortunately, with court ordered injunctions, hospitals have rights you couldn't imagine.
 

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You know what scares me the most? The thought that the right to a home birth (the ONLY natural birth) will be non-existant for my daughter..................a LONG time from now.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="jaw2">
 

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I've mostly been reading, but that is one that can't be left alone. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/scared.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="scared"> I'm sending this link along to others...there has to be a way to stop hospitals from gaining that kind of power over our bodies. It's disgusting that so many doctors and hospitals stoop to scare tactics to convince women to sacrifice their rights. Honestly, it's a low blow, as it is so natural to feel concern for the unborn baby and therefore to follow to the letter a doctor's suggestions when they say that not following them could endanger your baby. Keyword: could. Possibly. Maybe. Of course, following them could endanger mother and baby as well...Ugh! Sorry, just too mad to be eloquent.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Raven</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You must remember how childbirth was moved from the home into the hospial.<br><br>
In the past, there were many deaths involved during childbirth. This ws b/c there was no knowlege of germs, bacteria and how they caused disease. In those days too, sanitary conditions were poor and housing was also inadequate. Upper-class woman began having Doctors attend their births and this became a common thing - asociated with Upper Class and nobilty.</div>
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I want to add here that, at least in this country, this sort of fits with the "why did doctors start attending births instead of midwives" question, but I don't think it explains how we got into the "why did birth move to the hospital" question.<br><br>
What I have read about was the desire of hospitals -- PRE-Pasteur and knowledge of germs -- to increase the number of their patients...so they advertised "Pain-Free Birth" by means of chloroform. And a knocked-out mother needs forceps, etc.<br><br>
LOTS of those women who went to the hospital died from blood poisoning as doctors went between patients without washing their hands...or even going from the morgue and an autopsy to the laboring room without washing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"><br><br><br>
And on the topic of the original post....SO WHAT THE BLAZES ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS???? Does anyone have the address to write to this hospital? I'd like to tell them that I will make sure I will never go to them for anything, including a sprained ankle.
 

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Actually, hospital births came about in Europe because the upper classes preferred it that way; the aristocracy always had court obstetricians. The lower classes had midwives with dubious experience and credentials. Eventually the lower classes got their turn because they wanted to be like the upper class.<br><br>
As far as the germ theory goes, the man who is responsible for getting doctors to stop walking from the morgue to the maternity ward without washing their hands is a man who is a footnote in medical history - Ignaz Semmelweis. He lived in Austria.<br><br>
Up to this time, women were dying from a disease called "childbed fever", which doctors claimed was psychosomatic, i.e., all in the silly women's minds. It was actually an infection that was caused iatrogenically, i.e., by the doctors.<br><br>
Semmelweis told his interns and nurses to wash their hands and arms with an antiseptic in between each patient.<br><br>
His mothers lived; he urged other doctors to follow his example to bring down the mortality and morbidity rate, and they refused; instead they blamed him for other things and ridiculed him. Dr. Semmelweis died in an insane asylm.<br><br>
In this country, the AMA was organized early and went from state to state to mandate that abortion become illegal and that midwives be banned from attending births. They demanded that all babies have silver nitrate in their eyes at birth because they thought that all women had gonorrhea.<br><br>
Full hospitalization of the birthing population really did not take hold until after WWII, when the soldiers started to come home and leave the hospital beds empty. The soldiers went home, married, and started families. America won the war! America was in a boom mood and in love with technology. Houses were built, babies were born mostly in the hospital with twilight sleep, and men went to work and women were mostly SAHMs. Life was grand. Everybody had or wanted a television. A polio epidemic broke out and the polio vaccine was developed! If you had a threatened miscarriage, the doctor gave you a vitamin pill called DES. If your child had an enlarged thymus gland, the doctor treated it with a radium box. If you had tonsillitis, out came the tonsils! Life was grand! Better living through chemistry!<br><br>
Is it any wonder the children born under the influence of twilight sleep in the 1940's, were dropping acid in the 1960's?<br><br>
We have paid a very high price for this life style.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Last month, prosecutors in Pittsburgh charged an unlicensed midwife with involuntary manslaughter for failing to take a woman to the hospital when her baby began to be delivered feet-first. The child died two days later. The midwife said she had been trying to honor the mother's wishes to have the baby at home.</td>
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When a Dr. makes an "executive decision" that results in the death of an infant, he rarely even faces a malpractice suit. When a mw respects the wishes of the mother, she's charged with manslaughter. Yuck!<br><br>
Another mama posted in this info in May:<br><b><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Cuss.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="cuss">Wilkes- Barre General Hospital<br>
575 North River St<br>
Wilkes-Barre PA 18764<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Cuss.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="cuss">570-829-8111</b>
 

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yeah, the old boy's network protects the docs. Whereas the midwives have no such protection.<br><br>
After all, midwives are competition and one must destroy the competition. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Cuss.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="cuss"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/rant.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rant">:
 

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I know this an old thread, but I could not help posting... I guess it is a venting/ranting post...<br>
I am in the process of finding a good midwife clinic in Pittsburgh - going to visit a great one tonight actually - because DH and I just could not stand how we were treated like idiots last time...<br><br>
Our first 2 kids were delivery by midwives in Denmark - the first at a hospital and the second at a clinic. It was AWESOME!! They were supportive and respected us so much and helped me NOT to get drugs even when I began "asking" for them during the last phase - LOL<br><br>
Then when we moved to the US we went the obgyn route because of recommendations and insurance issues. OMG - we could not have regreted it more!!<br>
We delivered at the Abington Memorial Hospital in Abington, PA.<br><br>
**They mocked the birth plan I gave them (saying laughing "another one of those - the moms never stick to them");<br>
**they insisted with epidural (and not thinking clearly because of the pain, I accepted it);<br>
**they took my baby away from me to test him and they handled him like he was a piece of meat;<br>
**they put him under that warming lamp because they said he was too cold (duh... I wanted to keep him against my chest to keep him warm like they do in Denmark, and they kept wrapping him like a sausage!!!)<br>
**I refused hepatites vaccine, then they came back saying I had tested + so I had to vaccinate my son if I did not want him to get sick - I found out later they had lied!!!<br>
**They kept checking me and my son THE WHOLE NIGHT and we could not rest.<br>
**They took my son to the nursery WITHOUT asking to test his hearing.<br>
**They did not let me go home - when I asked they began giving me big speeches of how that was irresponsible. I said I did not care, then they delayed the Dr. seeing me to discharge me EVERY DAY and I could not leave anyways...<br><br>
I know, I should have had a doula... I did not think about it then. I guess the way they did everything really took DH and I by surprise<br><br>
DH said to them afterward: "Don't you wish you cold just keep these babies here forever instead of sending them home to us stupid and inexperienced parents?? It sure looks like it!!!!!!!!!!"
 
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