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So. I'm not anti gun in theory. I think adults should be allowed to have them. I would like to let ds1, age 10, eventually learn how to shoot (targets) and about gun safety. However, we would never have a gun in our house because of the kids.<br><br>
That being said; today I got a phone call from ds's friend (ds1 was over at his house). The friend asks if ds is allowed to shoot bb guns. I tell him "no", but thanks for asking, and told ds that I was glad he was responsible and called me. Then he comes home and tells me that before they called, he did shoot the gun! And, his friends mom wasn't even supervising them! I guess the kid has been shooting for awhile, and "hunts" rabbits and squirrels with it<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> I'm mad on many levels. First, though the kid is nice, the hunting (this is obviously for sport and not for meat) bothers me. Second, a bb gun can be dangerous, and there wasn't an adult watching them. Third, I'm upset at ds and not sure yet what to do.<br><br>
I printed up a ton of information about bb/pellet gun injuries and had him read it. I also had him read personal stories that people have written about losing their sons/brothers/friends to accidental gun deaths. He's going to write a report on the subject. And he won't be going over to that kid's house anymore. They can play here, or ride their bikes, but that's it. And if the kid brings his bb gun, ds won't be allowed to go with him.<br><br>
I can't trust him at all. He KNOWS that he isn't allowed to shoot guns, and he did anyway. What do I do?<br><br>
And, now everytime he wants to go to a friends house, I reallize that I need to ask about guns in the house.<br><br>
What does everyone here do? Do you ask parents about guns? If they have guns that are locked up, would you let your kid go over?<br><br>
Any suggestions to an appropriate consequnce for him shooting the gun?<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Kristi
 

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We've been friends with people with guns - I never even knew to ask until one of them told me about her dh hunting.<br><br>
I don't know. I've always told the kids to leave guns alone. If they see one to find an adult. However, would they? I have no idea.<br><br>
BB's are dangerous. I'd tell the mom that he isn't allowed to use the BB - period. That it is something you want him to learn with you and his dad.<br><br>
I'm sorry but 10 yrs is too young to be allowed to shoot on your own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Exactly- he's too young to play with a bb gun! His friend is only 9, btw. Especially unsupervised, and with a 9yo as a "teacher"! Ugh. We have friends who have a (locked) gun in their house, and my parents have (locked) guns hidden up in their garage attic. In both cases, my ds doesn't "roam free" unsupervised in the houses, so we don't worry about him finding and playing with the guns.<br><br>
Ugh.
 

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kristi: Don't overlook the fact that your son told you what he did. He was being honest with you, and yet in your post you say, "I can't trust him at all."<br>
What your son was doing by telling you what occurred is he's asking you to protect him from the situation. If you couldn't trust him at all, you would never have heard boo about guns at the friends' home. Your son was probably scared out of his mind when he called you -- he was asking for protection from a situation.<br>
And yes, you DO have to ask if homes where your kids play have guns. Protect the gift that is your child by taking the question of "Does your home have ANY kind of gun? Including BB guns?" to the parents. And you might think twice about letting your child play with a boy who wounds animals for fun.<br>
As for guns that are locked up, that isn't a guarantee of safety. At age fifteen, one of my son's friends' broke the lock of a gun cabinet, and the boys were fooling around with the gun. My son's friend is now dead because the boys' best friend shot him in the face with a gun that he didn't think was loaded. Life is not a video game, but kids don't always get that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Calgal. I agree about him being honest with me, which I am grateful for. And I am never going to allow him to play in a house with guns (even bb). With my friends house and parents house, there are always adults present and ds cannot get access to the locked guns.....he's not allowed to "hang out" in the garage, or into my friends bedroom. Does that make sense? And I wouldn't leave him alone at either place because of the guns.<br><br>
He's read all the stuff I printed out, and more on the internet about gun safety; and about accidental shootings. He wrote alot about what he learned, and I think he's realized how dangerous even bbguns can be.<br><br>
I'm glad this happened, as it made me think about asking about guns in the home......we're new to this area and apparently lots of people have guns. This wasn't an issue where we lived before; the only houses he played in didn't have guns. Ugh.<br><br>
Thanks!<br><br>
Kristi
 

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Raised in a hunting family, so I know whereof I speak.<br><br>
BB guns are STUPID. They are not real guns, but they are dangerous.<br><br>
You should never "play" with a gun. You practice.<br><br>
If there is great liklihood (or even if there isn't) of him being in contact with people-with-guns (say the "w" like in welsh...'ooo'...and you get "pooog"<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> ), you should find a gun safety course and attend it with him. Be warned there is a high liklihood that it will be given by someone who is very pro-gun and possibly pro-handgun. Look for one that is aimed (no pun intended) at hunting. Even if the point of view of the teacher pisses you off, go, be poilite, learn all you can, and use it as a starting point for discussions with your son.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nono.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nono"><br>
My family's rules: (and remember, we are hunters, BUT WE'RE NOT CRAZY<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nut.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nut"> )<br><br>
Don't hunt unless you need the food.<br><br>
Don't kill unless for food or to save your/another's life.<br><br>
Don't wound an animal without putting it out of its misery. (ie: you wound it, you then track it down and you have a duty to make it as quick as possible.)<br><br>
Don't EVER point a gun at someone or EVEN MAKE A GUN WITH YOUR HAND AND POINT IT. IT IS NOT A GAME.<br><br>
A gun is a tool, not an extension of a penis.<br><br>
And my Uncle's way of putting it: "Don't own a gun. If you own a gun, never pull it out, but always keep it clean. If you pull it out, don't show it to anyone. If you show it to anyone, shoot to kill." As in: don't be stupid and treat it like a game. It is a dangerous tool with one purpose only.<br><br>
Personally, as soon as I can, I am going to train my son about guns and teach him that he MUST NEVER PLAY WITH SOMEONE WHO THINKS GUNS ARE FUN!!!!!<br><br>
Your son sounds like he's trustworthy.<br><br>
No knowledge is ever wasted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's some great advice! I will look for a gun class for him. I am not anti-gun, but I am anti-stupidity; and imo letting a 9yo play with a bbgun unsuperviesed is stupid!<br><br>
And the kid hunts for sport, not food, which to me is just plain wrong.<br><br>
I have no problem with hunting for food.<br><br>
I like your advice about not letting your son play with someone who things guns are fun!<br><br>
I will show ds this thread <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Kristi
 

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grisandole: I just thought of something else.<br><br>
I grew up in a family where everything (and I mean really, just about, nearly everything) was discussed openly, ad nauseum.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: This was without regard to age of the listeners. Some stuff went over my head, I'm sure, but I also sure learned a lot. Given the media culture we live in these days, I don't think 9 is too young to see and discuss Bowling for Columbine. I found it very interesting. The hunting section of my family is very much of the same sort that Michael Moore describes as coming from. (Even geographically.) Except that there wouldn't have been any toy guns like in his early photos. AND, many of his points are a lot like things that have been discussed repeatedly around the dinner table, especially when the Columbine tragedy happened.<br><br>
I would consider (of course, I don't know you or your son, so this is just from my position<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> ) watching it and then discussing some of the cultural issues that surround gun ownership and the "romanticization" of guns in our culture. And, I would probably drag out the history of billetting soldiers in private homes and seizure of weapons before the American Revolution and learn about Shays Rebellion and some of the ties between that and the Bill of Rights...and why there's that bit about "the right to a well-ordered militia".<br><br>
Because of a less-than-perfect understanding of that amendment, lots of people have made almost a "religious" thing of gun ownership here. So, for many, it is not just a tool, but also a symbol.<br><br>
I find that the more "intellectualizing" one can do, the less "romantic" something appears. I think mixing this kind of discussion with gun safety discussions, he will be well-prepared to make sensible choices when on his own and/or unable to call you up. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Watched a dateline once where kids who had been instructed that "if you find a gun, don't touch and go find an adult) were tested in a room with two-way glass. The room was full of toys and yet almost every one of them picked up and played with the gun hidden in a toy box. Very disturbing.<br><br>
I think you've gotten good advice about gun safty class (depending on the instructor) and watching Bowling for Columbine.<br><br>
Hunting is something I feel a little differently about than most people. My kids can make many of thier own choices about thier life when they are young (as long as we are not talking illegal and life-threatening choices). However, they will not hunt while they live in my house. Period. Also, they cannot eat meat until they are ten (an age where I think they will be capable of fully understanding what meat is and thus deciding if they want to eat it). Otherwsie they will have a lot of personal freedom. But these two things are huge to me, especially the hunting. I don't just don't want it near me.<br><br>
Good luck. Sounds like you have a really good kid. I agree that his telling you shows his trustworthiness.
 

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Well, I work at a newspaper and I was reading two weeks ago that two 13 year olds went on a shooting rampage with a bb-gun at a daycare center!!! The two boys were hididng in the bushes in their backyard and shooting at the children playing at the playground at the daycare. 14 children in all were shot with the bb's. They shot a 7 year old that was in a wheel chair 4 times, and a 1 year old baby girl almost lost her eye. The other injuries were minor to the other children. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> Oh, I was SO pissed off. The parents of the older 13 year old KNEW HE HAD THE GUN and let him play unsupervised with it. It was so sad reading it. So, I guess as long as the child is constantly supervised, and the gun is locked when not in use with parents it would be okay. Because while your child is responsible, what if one of his friends gets a hold of it and they are not responsible? I have 3 boys and a girl and already my 7 yo wants a bb-gun--still very unsure about it............(he would NEVER use it unsupervised)............I know that my boy is responsible, but if it ever fell into the wrong hands it would be my fault. Okay, well I just wanted to put my two cents in <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">
 

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Firstly, it was wrong of the parents of the other child to allow use of the BB gun unsupervised. Secondly, I do not blame the child. They were doing what boys do and shooting is one of those natural things that boys engage in. I think I got my first BB gun at about that age. It was drilled into my head not to shoot anything inappropriate and not to point it at people for any reason. This is a lesson in personal responsibility as well as marksmanship. Maturity as well as sport. If you don't think your child is old enough, or mature enough to act responsibly then he shouldn't participate. If however you have done your job, and raised a child that respects others and is ready to move into a situation where he understands that he is responsible for his own actions, this is an excellent vehicle. Both of my 11 year old boys have Red Ryders. They are permitted to keep them in their rooms in gun cases. They are permitted to shoot them in the back yard at a backstop we have built. Suitable targets are paper, pop cans, and paper or styrofoam cups. They are required to clean the target area of debris after each shooting session. They are not permitted to shoot at living things. The penalty for any infraction of the rules is immediate loss of the gun and shooting privileges for a minimum of 90 days or until they can act more maturely. You would be surprised I think at the innate desire to participate in this pastime that in one form or another has been a part of maturing in our species since pre historic times. The BB gun is simply the modern version. These are life lessons being taught here and overreaction will do nothing but spur on your child's percieved need to decieve you. Perhaps appropriate lessons at a club or junior program are in order. I can tell you that since we purchased these Red Ryders, our little Ralphies have also learned to do the dishes, make their beds, Shower regularly without being told, brush their teeth, and help with yardwork without being told or prompted. The maturation process that this purchase started has been genuine and profound. Our less academic son even started reading more in order to earn " range time ". Perhaps this will help you.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>grisandole</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So. I'm not anti gun in theory. I think adults should be allowed to have them. I would like to let ds1, age 10, eventually learn how to shoot (targets) and about gun safety. However, we would never have a gun in our house because of the kids.</div>
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That is probably the wrong approach and there are plenty of ways to secure a weapon. Old style wooden and glass cabinets are not adequate of course. While life may be soft and easy for americans in the 21st century it has not always been so, nor will it always be so. Guns are an important part of amercian culture and are likely to be so for the foreseeable future. Their presence here has contributed substantially to freedom here, and around the world.<br>
In the hands of a competent and capable individual they may also save your life one day. BTW, you DO sound antigun.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">That being said; today I got a phone call from ds's friend (ds1 was over at his house). The friend asks if ds is allowed to shoot bb guns. I tell him "no", but thanks for asking, and told ds that I was glad he was responsible and called me. Then he comes home and tells me that before they called, he did shoot the gun! And, his friends mom wasn't even supervising them!</td>
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I would've been angry also. That I wasn't informed, or asked, and the lack of supervision, not that I think competent and adequately mature children must be supervised at all times with a BBgun. I hunted with shotguns with friends when I was 15. And I was very careful.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I guess the kid has been shooting for awhile, and "hunts" rabbits and squirrels with it<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> I'm mad on many levels. First, though the kid is nice, the hunting (this is obviously for sport and not for meat) bothers me. Second, a bb gun can be dangerous, and there wasn't an adult watching them. Third, I'm upset at ds and not sure yet what to do.</td>
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First, the kid is nice. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br>
While a BBgun is potentially dangerous, it is not terribly so. It is meant to be a starter, or training device. In this role it is perfect. It is very unlikely to kill a squirrel though it is not impossible, of course. Depends on the BBgun and the shooter. Most are VERY underpowered. There is nothing wrong with kids learning hunting skills in this manner. As an adult, however, I do not shoot at anything that I am not going to eat.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I printed up a ton of information about bb/pellet gun injuries and had him read it. I also had him read personal stories that people have written about losing their sons/brothers/friends to accidental gun deaths. He's going to write a report on the subject.</td>
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Like I said, you DO sound antigun. While education on the subject is a very good thing, teaching only fear is not likely to be terribly effective as he will soon realize the fallacy of what he is being taught and may then assume that it was all BS. He is going to want to shoot regardless of what you show him.<br>
Part of the instruction should be safety instruction and the use of firearms.<br><br>
Did you teach him to swim or did you tell him to stay away from the pool? Guns are a part of life just like teaching them how to cross the street, avoidance of chemical ingestion, car safety, seat belts, sex and STDs, drugs, alchohol and tobacco. Each has its age appropriate training window. Punish him(he deserves that) in some way but then teach him.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">And he won't be going over to that kid's house anymore. They can play here, or ride their bikes, but that's it. And if the kid brings his bb gun, ds won't be allowed to go with him.</td>
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I think you should reconsider that. You cannot shelter your kids from everything. You also say he is a nice boy. Be glad for that...<br>
Perhaps a reasoned discussion with his parents concerning how to deal with this issue is in order. But it is time to cut one more apron string.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I can't trust him at all. He KNOWS that he isn't allowed to shoot guns, and he did anyway. What do I do?</td>
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I understand your ire concerning this situation. I would not let this single episode destroy your trust in him, however. That is unwarranted. I would make him understand that he has betrayed your trust and how important it is that you be able to trust him if he is going to do things on his own.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">And, now everytime he wants to go to a friends house, I reallize that I need to ask about guns in the house.</td>
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I have focused my efforts on discussing with my kids what to do if a gun is present. Virtually everyone where I live has guns in the house. You might be surprised at how many do where you live.<br><br>
I had a BBGun at 5. My son got one at 6, when I thought he was ready. He shot my handguns at 9, my AR-15 at 10. 2 years ago I got an UZI submachinegun. He is 15 and handles it great. I am VERY strict about safety and the basic rules for handling a firearm. He is probably safer than I now. And that is as it should be given his level of experience.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">What does everyone here do? Do you ask parents about guns? If they have guns that are locked up, would you let your kid go over?</td>
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Like I said, EVERYONE where I live has guns in their home. I've got 4 hanging on my wall in the den. The ammo is secured and we do not leave our children unsupervised, especially if others are over. There have been occasions when I have put them in one of my gunsafes depending on the number of kids and the behavior of those coming over. I think you should assume that most people have a gun. They are not all going to tell you for a variety of reasons.<br>
Talk to the parents, reasonably, and if you will have to make an informed decision concerning his safety.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Any suggestions to an appropriate consequnce for him shooting the gun?<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Kristi</td>
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Recommend safety training and maybe even a BBgun of his own <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br>
Also very much recommend protective eyegear if he is going to be anywhere around any BBgun or other firearm. That is a must.<br>
I would punish him with some sort of restriction but then I would do as stated above. It is not unusual for me to ask my kids what they consider a fitting punishment and I make a determination from there.<br><br>
Turn this into a constructive educational experience. That's my advice. The key word being "constructive".
 

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Welcome to the boards, drkevin. I notice that that is your first post.<br><br>
Just for the record, this is a very old thread and it seems from your post that you didn't read the whole thing.<br><br>
I strongly disagree with you that BB guns are a "starter or training" gun. You mean like a "training" bra? BB guns are just a dangerous toy. Guns are tools. I don't give my son plastic "tools" to bang on inappropriate things with, I give him real tools and a safe place to use them on some wood with supervision.<br><br>
And, just for what it is worth, as a hunter, I am <i>very</i> curious about this juxtaposition:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I do not shoot at anything that I am not going to eat.</td>
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and<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">my AR-15 at 10. 2 years ago I got an UZI submachinegun.</td>
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Exactly what kind of game do you go after that you need these?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sohj</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Welcome to the boards, drkevin. I notice that that is your first post.<br><br>
Just for the record, this is a very old thread and it seems from your post that you didn't read the whole thing.</div>
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Thanks.<br>
I read the entire thread.<br>
Heard about it on another board. Thought I might do some of the kids a service.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I strongly disagree with you that BB guns are a "starter or training" gun.</td>
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You couldn't be more wrong. A BBgun is a training device so that safety and shooting skills may be taught and honed with a far less dangerous gun.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">You mean like a "training" bra?</td>
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Attempts to lower this debate or drag me into a sexist argument are not likely to be fruitful nor constructive. It is also demeaning.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">BB guns are just a dangerous toy. Guns are tools. I don't give my son plastic "tools" to bang on inappropriate things with, I give him real tools and a safe place to use them on some wood with supervision.</td>
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That would be a mistake. That is why there are toolsets for children. Of various levels for different ages and ability. Same as most things. We teach our children skills gradually. In all respects, whether you realize it or not. If you really consider the things we do with our kids throughout their life all are the gradual teaching of abilities and lifeskills. That is what parenting is. Guns are no different. Is there some risk with a BBgun? Yes, but it's minimal compared to handing them a .300 Mag hunting rifle, etc. Once again, the purpose is to teach these skills and primarily safety.<br><br>
As for the rest:<br>
An AR-15 is perfectly legal to use for hunting in my state and many others. I don't use it for that as it is a little underpowered for the job of hunting large game. The deer are big where I live! An AR is also very accurate, FWIW.<br>
I have shot 2 deer with my AK-47. Very effective in that task.<br>
I have shotguns, rifles, handguns, etc. Each "tool" for a different job. You wouldn't use a wrench to pound in a nail would you?<br>
Further, my non hunting weapons are used for shooting(not all of my gun use is hunting related and target shooting is one of my hobbies). They are also for home defense and collecting. My AR is my main home defense weapon. I could explain why if the reasons for that choice are not evident on basic circumspection.<br>
The Bill of Rights concerns the rights of individuals the most basic being the right to self-preservation, the protection of my family and my nation. I take ALL of my civic responsibilities seriously.<br>
The UZI is a toy. No doubt. And it is a blast to shoot. You should try out some these fine weapons. You might be surprised. Don't know where you reside but I let plenty of novice shooters try my guns out. After adequate safety training of course <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>drkevin</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...An AR-15 is perfectly legal to use for hunting in my state and many others. I don't use it for that as it is a little underpowered for the job of hunting large game. the deer are big where I live. An AR is also very accurate...</div>
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Never met a deer too big to take with my bow. Caribou either.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I have shot 2 deer with my AK-47. Very effective in that task.<br>
I have shotguns, rifles, handguns, etc. Each "tool" for a different job. You wouldn't use a wrench to pound in a nail would you?<br>
Further, my non hunting weapons are used for shooting(not all of my gun use is hunting related and target shooting is one of my hobbies). they are also for home defense and collecting. My AR is my main home defense weapon. I could explain why if the reasons for that choice are not evident on basic circumspection. The Bill of Rights concerns the rights of individuals the most basic being the right to self-preservation, the protection of my family and my nation. I take ALL of my civic responsibilities seriously.<br>
The UZI is a toy. No doubt. And it is a blast to shoot. You should try out some these fine weapons. You might be surprised. Don't know where you reside but I let plenty of novice shooters try my guns out. After adequate safety training of course <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"></td>
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Ahhh. So you don't eat everything you shoot.<br><br>
Actually, the UZI isn't a toy. It is also a tool. Yes, I have shot them. And you and I both know that it is not a tool for hunting.<br><br>
Are you aware that part of our user agreement is that we don't "invite" people from our board to go and "educate" people on another board? The idea behind this is a bit of "treating others as we would wish to be treated".
 

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I must admit that I don't hunt. I don't see any point in killing animals for food unless all of a sudden the supermarkets were empty and there was no other means to feed my family. Even then it would be with reluctance. I do however have no problem with the doctor enjoying firearms for target shooting or self defense if that is appropriate to his circumstance. As to his choice in firearms, I know that the AR15 is commonly used as a competition target rifle in national competition held near here so I would assume similar events either organized or unorganized are what he is referring to. As to the Uzi, well I suppose thats under the heading of bigger toys for bigger boys. I did shoot one once at the police department and must admit it was quite fun. I just couldn't afford the license and cost of feeding it therefore I suppose its not for me.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sohj</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Never met a deer too big to take with my bow. Caribou either.</div>
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So does that mean you shouldn't have knife?<br>
The point is that though I am perfectly capable of killing a deer, or even a caribou, etc with an AR it is not my first choice for caliber. I think I already stipulated that it is a home defense and target weapon.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Ahhh. So you don't eat everything you shoot.</td>
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Wrong again. You're pretty good at that so far <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br>
Where did I say I didn't eat everything I shoot? Unless you are speaking about my failure to cook and consume paper targets and clay pigeons.<br>
I mostly just bird hunt anymore. I really like deer and it always gives me a sense of sadness to kill any creature. However, there is nothing I do that makes me more of a part of the circle of life. Don't know if I am going to deer hunt this year or not. I envy you some of your hunting experiences. Perhaps one day...<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Actually, the UZI isn't a toy. It is also a tool.</td>
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It is both in my case. They are not mutually exclusive.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Yes, I have shot them. And you and I both know that it is not a tool for hunting.</td>
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I am sure that I have already stated that.<br>
The 2nd amendment is 2nd for a very good reason. And it has NOTHING to do with hunting. I think that is info that is easily attainable without my assistance. Further, I have already noted other reasons for bearing arms in my last post.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Are you aware that part of our user agreement is that we don't "invite" people from our board to go and "educate" people on another board? The idea behind this is a bit of "treating others as we would wish to be treated".</td>
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I fail to see how this applies to me as I have directed absolutely no one to this thread or this site. I was informed of that I freely admit but same probably goes for most of those who post here.<br>
I also think that is a very much mistaken attitude. What are you trying to hide? Your own dominance over this thread? Don't you think that informed debate is both reasonable and beneficial?<br><br>
As for the golden rule I am a strong adherent. That is why I did not attempt to twist anyone elses words nor attempt to inflame this discussion. Can you say the same?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>drkevin</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...Where did I say I didn't eat everything I shoot?...</div>
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In your first post you wrote:
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">As an adult, however, I do not shoot at anything that I am not going to eat.</td>
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