Breastfeed More, Earn Less
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This might not be a very popular answer, but I wish we would stop looking at everything from such a capitalistic point of view. How much money you make/contribute to society measures your worth. Our country's pathetic lack of social safety nets (paid maternity leave, etc.) is very sad. THAT's what articles need to be written about, not how much breastfeeding COSTS the nation (in lost man-hours).
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| But it does mean that we should stop talking about breast-feeding as if it only affects an infant's health, and not the woman's life or position in her family, and her workplace. It also means that breast-feeding now loses its free pass into the feminist cause. |
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Yes, children become the priority. They SHOULD be, as they are the future generations on the country.
kiara7 - ITA with you. Why does everything have to be centered around how much money a person makes? Why does that determine how good of a person you are?
How does this compare to moms BFing in other countries, that usually get more paid maternity leave? Would that be an example to follow?
Originally Posted by jocelynr 
When we become parents our children become the priority. I think it's still more important to discuss it in regards to infant (and maternal) health. |
kiara7 - ITA with you. Why does everything have to be centered around how much money a person makes? Why does that determine how good of a person you are?
How does this compare to moms BFing in other countries, that usually get more paid maternity leave? Would that be an example to follow?
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And how in the world should "oh no we might make less money because we are devoted to our kids" equal that this isn't a feminist cause??!!
Since when did feminism equal, earning the big bucks??!!
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This is so appalling! This country really makes me sick.
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Like seriously...
| It also means that breast-feeding now loses its free pass into the feminist cause. |
Since when did feminism equal, earning the big bucks??!!
This is so appalling! This country really makes me sick.
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I actually think that this is a large part of the focus of second wave feminism. I'm not knocking it because I think it was part of the process, just like first wave feminism secured our right to vote, and that changed how people (men and women) looked at women, and freed women to pursue the next item.
But yeah, second wave feminism I think focused on money-making because that was (or seemed to be, at least) the next big barrier to equality. The fact that men made virtually all the money at one point in our recent past, then still most of the money even when women entered the workplace, was a huge blockade for women's rights in more ways than one. Women were more dependent on men, unable to divorce without significant risks, etc.
Now, I do agree with you. Money is not everything we think it is (or at least I don't think so). It shouldn't define your value, the respect you get, etc. It shouldn't. But it realistically does in this society, hence the focus.
I do see a third wave of feminism growing, that brings more value to the "tradtional" female role as a mother, nurturer, etc. It seems we really did have to prove we could do (almost) everything that men could do (to ourselves every bit as much as to men) before we could take the next step.
Anyway I don't know what my ultimate point is in regard to the actual subject of this thread, but just wanted to put my two cents in on that part.
Originally Posted by JSMa Since when did feminism equal, earning the big bucks??!! |
But yeah, second wave feminism I think focused on money-making because that was (or seemed to be, at least) the next big barrier to equality. The fact that men made virtually all the money at one point in our recent past, then still most of the money even when women entered the workplace, was a huge blockade for women's rights in more ways than one. Women were more dependent on men, unable to divorce without significant risks, etc.
Now, I do agree with you. Money is not everything we think it is (or at least I don't think so). It shouldn't define your value, the respect you get, etc. It shouldn't. But it realistically does in this society, hence the focus.
I do see a third wave of feminism growing, that brings more value to the "tradtional" female role as a mother, nurturer, etc. It seems we really did have to prove we could do (almost) everything that men could do (to ourselves every bit as much as to men) before we could take the next step.
Anyway I don't know what my ultimate point is in regard to the actual subject of this thread, but just wanted to put my two cents in on that part.
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ITA! It is terribly sad that this country values people & actions by their economic worth.
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Originally Posted by kiara7 This might not be a very popular answer, but I wish we would stop looking at everything from such a capitalistic point of view. How much money you make/contribute to society measures your worth. Our country's pathetic lack of social safety nets (paid maternity leave, etc.) is very sad. THAT's what articles need to be written about, not how much breastfeeding COSTS the nation (in lost man-hours). |
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You did notice the author of this opinion piece? Hanna Rosin, of the Atlantic article fame? With a very sharp, well-ground axe against BFing
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Prejudge much?
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| Finally, the study I've been waiting for: |
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I didn't even notice that! No wonder I don't like it!!!
Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise You did notice the author of this opinion piece? Hanna Rosin, of the Atlantic article fame? With a very sharp, well-ground axe against BFing
Prejudge much?
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I'm not familiar with her. What is the Atlantic article? I should have known there would be some anti-BF slant.
Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise You did notice the author of this opinion piece? Hanna Rosin, of the Atlantic article fame? With a very sharp, well-ground axe against BFing
Prejudge much?
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(What I'm about to say applies only to full-time stay-at-home-moms)
If you're staying at home so you can be with your baby to nurse him/her on demand, sure you're "making less" by not working, BUT you're not having to spend money on daycare, gas to get to and from work (and thus since you may be driving less your car insurance payment will go down!), premade food to make up for less time to cook from scratch, and formula and all the supplies to go with it (edit - IF YOU CHOOSE TO FORMULA FEED INSTEAD OF PUMPING).
If you're staying at home so you can be with your baby to nurse him/her on demand, sure you're "making less" by not working, BUT you're not having to spend money on daycare, gas to get to and from work (and thus since you may be driving less your car insurance payment will go down!), premade food to make up for less time to cook from scratch, and formula and all the supplies to go with it (edit - IF YOU CHOOSE TO FORMULA FEED INSTEAD OF PUMPING).
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Gah. This is such a stupid way to interpret this study. If anything it should cause feminists to rise up to demand more support for breastfeeding. Maybe women end up working/ earning less because employers are not supportive enough of breastfeeding.
And I agree with the rest of you too, maybe the priorities of the women in the study have changed - so what? Why does it make them less feminist because they earns less? Both my husband and I are professionals who earn less now (post-children) because we choose to work less overtime/ extra teaching loads etc. to spend more time with our DS.
Seriously, what is up with that Hanna Rossin woman?
And I agree with the rest of you too, maybe the priorities of the women in the study have changed - so what? Why does it make them less feminist because they earns less? Both my husband and I are professionals who earn less now (post-children) because we choose to work less overtime/ extra teaching loads etc. to spend more time with our DS.
Seriously, what is up with that Hanna Rossin woman?
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GRR!! No wonder! Every time I read anything by that woman it gets me in such an outrage!!! It makes me wish I would have stayed in journalism so I could more effectively go head to head with her in a more public sense.
I'm at the point now where I'm ready to write some "lovely" letter to her. GRR GRR GRR!
Oh... and to the PP who posted about WOHM's needing formula? Why would you write that? Not all WOHMs use formula... I pump my butt off at work to ensure that.
I'm at the point now where I'm ready to write some "lovely" letter to her. GRR GRR GRR!
Oh... and to the PP who posted about WOHM's needing formula? Why would you write that? Not all WOHMs use formula... I pump my butt off at work to ensure that.
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I couldn't agree more. When I stop to think about it, the most valuable members of society earn no salary, or a small salary (stay-at-home parents, police officers, teachers, firefighters, etc.) I wish we could move away from a money-centric culture!
Originally Posted by kiara7 This might not be a very popular answer, but I wish we would stop looking at everything from such a capitalistic point of view. How much money you make/contribute to society measures your worth. Our country's pathetic lack of social safety nets (paid maternity leave, etc.) is very sad. THAT's what articles need to be written about, not how much breastfeeding COSTS the nation (in lost man-hours). |
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I agree here too. I don't think that feminism means that women should try and be like men and have the exact same things men do. It does to a lot of people, though. I think true feminism is embracing what makes you a woman, equal but not the same.
Originally Posted by JSMa And how in the world should "oh no we might make less money because we are devoted to our kids" equal that this isn't a feminist cause??!! Since when did feminism equal, earning the big bucks??!!
This is so appalling! This country really makes me sick.
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And not all WOHMs pump and just go straight to the bottle without ever even thinking of pumping. I was just using it as an example. Jeez, sorry!
Originally Posted by JSMa Oh... and to the PP who posted about WOHM's needing formula? Why would you write that? Not all WOHMs use formula... I pump my butt off at work to ensure that. |
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Absolutely agree with this. Since when did feminism become about being more like men? Feminism is about getting equal rights, but also embracing the things that make you innately female.
Hannah Rosin obviously has some issues with breastfeeding- for someone who has breastfed all her kids, she sure has a lot of bitterness spewing from every orifice of her body.
North American feminism (because this seems the only way I can find to describe it) has become so capitalistic. These woman are not going to be happy until they make as much as men, until they can be like men. I'm all for pushing for woman's rights, but articles like this just strike me as a move in the wrong direction for feminism.
Breastfeeding has been the most liberating experience for me; my head spins that someone would resent it because there isn't an ATM attached to the side of the boob.
It's just puzzling, really.
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ETA: Also, ONE study? Surely Rosin understands that ONE study does not make a case? I swear she sits and googles, hoping something will come up to make her feel better about her "cause". Talk about a biased "article".
| I think true feminism is embracing what makes you a woman, equal but not the same. |
Hannah Rosin obviously has some issues with breastfeeding- for someone who has breastfed all her kids, she sure has a lot of bitterness spewing from every orifice of her body.
North American feminism (because this seems the only way I can find to describe it) has become so capitalistic. These woman are not going to be happy until they make as much as men, until they can be like men. I'm all for pushing for woman's rights, but articles like this just strike me as a move in the wrong direction for feminism.
Breastfeeding has been the most liberating experience for me; my head spins that someone would resent it because there isn't an ATM attached to the side of the boob.
It's just puzzling, really.
ETA: Also, ONE study? Surely Rosin understands that ONE study does not make a case? I swear she sits and googles, hoping something will come up to make her feel better about her "cause". Talk about a biased "article".
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No, no she doesn't. Nor do most people, frankly, though Rosin seems particularly bad about cherry-picking research in order to support her preconceived notions.
You may count me as another who doesn't care that breastfeeding longer equals earning less. Listen, I'm a huge fan of capitalism, and I believe firmly in the fact that you dictate your own destiny, especially economically. However, it does not follow that I measure my own worth as a human by how much money I have. Most people who are rich got that way by working half again to twice as many hours as their peers. I've got no interest in doing that. I'll work fewer hours, earn less money, and spend more time with my family. I consider that much more important than my bank account.
Originally Posted by teale ETA: Also, ONE study? Surely Rosin understands that ONE study does not make a case? |
You may count me as another who doesn't care that breastfeeding longer equals earning less. Listen, I'm a huge fan of capitalism, and I believe firmly in the fact that you dictate your own destiny, especially economically. However, it does not follow that I measure my own worth as a human by how much money I have. Most people who are rich got that way by working half again to twice as many hours as their peers. I've got no interest in doing that. I'll work fewer hours, earn less money, and spend more time with my family. I consider that much more important than my bank account.
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