[captain optimism]

So I'm eating lunch in the cafeteria at work. At the table are me and three childless colleagues: two in their twenties and one in her fifties. The conversation turns to breastfeeding. Why? I can't even remember. One of the young women has a degree in child development and she supports my insistence that formula is inferior to breastfeeding. (Albeit in a lukewarm way.) I am making the case that the low rate of breastfeeding in the US constitutes of public health problem.

One of the young women gets FURIOUS at this assertion. She says something like, "That's your opinion!" So I basically bulldoze her. I am a champeen arguer, I have a lot of statistics at my disposal, I happen to know that the CDC, the AAP, the Surgeon General, and a whole lotta other organizations consider the low rate of breastfeeding in the US a public health hazard. She can't say anything because I'm completely overwhelming her with passion, logic and facts. (And talking really fast. And loud.)

But I don't change her opinion. She still thinks I'm being arrogant. This is in spite of the fact that our organization promotes breastfeeding in its home visiting program!

This is a person who was formula-fed. I'm also the only person at the table who was breast-fed. My older colleague, a woman who is always sick, who has CANCER for goshsakes, is insisting that being formula fed didn't hurt her. (She could be right, after all she smoked for many years and that might have made her sick!)

I guess I'm really shaken up that a person would be so opposed to breastfeeding. Maybe because she thinks her parents are being criticized? I don't know.

I'm generally more gentle with people who have already formula fed a baby, because I figure that they might not be able to breastfeed, or that at the very least they might have thought they weren't able. Okay. But I was kind of caught off guard by this.

What would you have said? What would you say, now? I don't want to send her all the proof that I have because I feel like it's too much already. She's seen my baby, Captain Stupendous, the gorgeous baby of the world.

I'm feeling really bad because she's a nice young woman and I really don't want to have bad feeling between us, and also I'd kind of like to think that when she does get married and have a baby, that she'll breastfeed.

 

[AnnMarie]

Quote:

Originally posted by captain optimism What would you have said? What would you say, now?

I think you did a great job.

I wouldn't say anything now. I'd let all the information you gave them sink in. Maybe they will ask you for more information. Well, one can dream can't they? :LOL

 

[callmemama]

Some people just don't "get it" until they have children. I knew I was going to breastfeed because I had read that it was better for the baby...but I didn't become passionate about it until my baby was born. I have a relative that I used to be pretty close to, but our relationship has really cooled since I parent so differently than she did (she probably wouldn't speak to me if she knew my 4yo was still nursing and she's appalled that he doesn't know what candy is). I don't know if she thinks I'm putting her down in some way by doing things differently or if she just believes that her way is the only way. Who knows. It hurts but you gotta do what you gotta do, right? Sorry, no advice. Good luck with your co-worker.

 

[wombat]

Some people do get furious when you're right.

I find it really irritating when people say .. something is your "opinion" when it's a fact so I don't blame you for bulldozing her with facts. Especially since you said you're both working for an organisation that promotes BF!

I wouldn't say anything more about the topic unless she brings it up. As AnnMarie said, let it sink it a bit. Just be nice to her as usual or whatever so she knows it's the topic you're heated on, and not her.

 

[chellemarie]

I'm for letting it sink in a while. Let things cool. An opportunity to smooth things over may very well present itself soon. If it does not and you're feeling icky about it, talk to her.

I have a cousin who just had a baby. I saw her two weeks ago for the baptism. When I gave her half a package of disposable diapers we never used and that we were using cloth now, she said, "You like cloth diapers?" I said, "Yes, I do." She said, "Well, you like breastfeeding, too and I just...ewww." and did this 'I wish I could crawl out of my skin' shivery thing.

They're now trying out several different kinds of formula for baby and now she's on soy. She went four days without pooping so they're putting Karo syrup in her bottles. Oh, and she has those gas drops, too.

She cried after she had the baby because her breasts were so big and she didn't know what kind of bra to get to hold them until her milk dried up.

She still insists putting the baby to her breast would be too creepy. And, ya know, they found those chemicals in breastmilk and put them in formula so it's like the same thing, see.

Good for you being passionate and letting someone know about it. What a wonderful thing to be passionate about. Hopefully you planted a seed.

(Older coworker smoked for years? Oral fixation much?)

 

[abigailvr]

Quote:

Originally posted by callmemama ...she's appalled that he doesn't know what candy is...

I just wanted to give you a

for this one! Wow. I suspect my son will discover candy, but the later the letter!

 

[Greaseball]

Quote:

My older colleague, a woman who is always sick, who has CANCER for goshsakes, is insisting that being formula fed didn't hurt her.

Formula feeding does hurt - even kill - and it's not always apparent. Some people just never figure it out.

My dh was formula fed (condensed milk and karo) and developed bacterial meningitis at 9 mos of age. His parents were told he would be dead in a few hours. When he lived to the next day, they were told he would be brain damaged. Today, he has a genius-level IQ and in high school got the highest SAT score in his whole school.

I don't see him as a person who wasn't hurt by formula - I see him as someone who almost died because of it, and then suffered from REDUCED brain function - he probably would have been even smarter if he was breastfed!

It's just like those people who smoke and drink while pg and say "Oh, my baby was just fine!" How do they know?! The baby would have been a lot healthier if not born under those conditions.

I would tell those women that when you have a baby, milk comes with it, and for a darn good reason too - the milk wasn't provided by your body just so you could waste it!

 

[Sustainer]

Quote:

Originally posted by captain optimism insisting that being formula fed didn't hurt her. (She could be right, after all she smoked for many years and that might have made her sick!)

I'm convinced that many people take up smoking because they were never breastfed. It's that unfulfilled sucking need.

Quote:

Originally posted by captain optimism she probably wouldn't speak to me if she knew my 4yo was still nursing and she's appalled that he doesn't know what candy is

Boy do people have their priorities skewed!

I say, Bravo, Captain Optimism. I would have said the same things. At least, I would have wanted to. I would have tried to. I'm not very good in person, and I admire people who are. This is too important an issue to let people think that it's just a matter of personal opinion. When someone thinks that, we should do everything we can to convince them otherwise, including inundate them with facts and passion.

 

[AnnaReilly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Greaseball I would tell those women that when you have a baby, milk comes with it, and for a darn good reason too - the milk wasn't provided by your body just so you could waste it!

That's a great way of putting it. People always say they wish babies came with instruction manuals yet so many people ignore what they DO come with.

I say good for you, CO! Hopefully your words will sink in!

 

[Sustainer]

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaReilly People always say they wish babies came with instruction manuals yet so many people ignore what they DO come with.

Here, here! That's another great way of putting it!

 

[NotAMama]

I normally lurk at the Circumcision board.

As my name implies, I don't have any kids, but my childed friends laugh at me because they tell me I am the biggest BF advocate they know.

This sort of made me laugh actually:

Quote:

I'm convinced that many people take up smoking because they were never breastfed. It's that unfulfilled sucking need.

While I absolutely see a coorelation here, it's the total opposite in my family. My mother did not breastfeed me (a combination of factors -- she tried, started failing, had no support system to help her or talk her through it and just gave up) and breastfed my brother til he weaned himself . . . and he was the one who smoked for 7 years before recently giving it up cold turkey!

Back on topic:
A recent conversation with another childless friend has really been weighing on my mind. Now, remember, this woman has no intention of having kids anytime in the near future (she doesn't even have a SO right now!) but she's already said she refuses to BF. My heart is already just breaking for my future goddaughter/godson. She says that the "women in her family" can't breastfeed. Her grandmother never did. Her mother "tried" but gave it up after a few days because it was "too painful and I was getting nothing but blood - no milk to be had." So she is taking her mother's experience and projecting it onto herself and adamantly refuses to even consider breastfeeding. I had sort of hoped that when it became necessary, I could really talk to her and give her some information, but this past weekend, she was talking about how she had asked another friend to go away for the weekend, but the friend couldn't find a sitter. I asked "Well, isn't she BFing anyway?" (her kid is a few months old) "Oh, no!" my friend responded "She still likes her freedom to go out when her hubby is watching the baby and drink and hang out for a while without worrying about getting home to feed the kid. Plus, the kid sleeps 10 hours a night!" I can just feel a mindset like this is going to be so hard to fight when the time comes!

I didn't say anything (so much for being a BF advocate). But I have just been fuming about it for days now. I wish I had been able to speak up the way the OP did. But I have the combined disadvantages of knowing from my heart that breast is best, but no hard and solid facts memorized and also, this is a dearly loved friend I am not interested in alienating over a baby that won't even be here for several years.

I just try to reassure myself with the ideal I have of my own natural, gentle birthed happy healthy breastfed Amelia and/or Lawrence to be!

 

[mamallama]

"Oh, no!" my friend responded "She still likes her freedom to go out when her hubby is watching the baby and drink and hang out for a while without worrying about getting home to feed the kid. Plus, the kid sleeps 10 hours a night!" I can just feel a mindset like this is going to be so hard to fight when the time comes!

Personally, I enjoy the freedom to go out without bottles, a cooling system, a warming system and time constraints. I enjoy the ability to ease a cranky baby or toddler into a much needed nap with a quick little nursey...any time, anywhere. And I do enjoy going out for a few hours in the evening while my partner stays at home and feeds the babe a bottle of expressed milk. I might even have a beer or two!

You know what I really enjoy though, is that my kids were never constipated and very rarely ill.

I also liked having cleavage for the first time....

Until women get the idea that we're all self-sacrificing, sack-cloth wearing, salt-of-the-earth folks out of their heads, breastfeeding will not become the norm, sick and sad though it may be....

 

[Sustainer]

Good point. There needs to be more talk of the "convenience" of having to sit up all night with a sick, artificial-baby-milk fed child.

 

[beanma]

hey capt,

you asked what should you do now? well, i'm, i guess, in disagreement with the other posters. if you think you alienated your coworker by coming on too strong i think it's fine to make a conciliatory move toward her on that without backing down on your "opinion", aka, the facts. basically, i'd just say what you said to us. "hey coworker, i'm worried i came on a little strong at lunch the other day. hope you weren't too offended. i guess it's obviously a topic i feel pretty strongly about. i have a lot of research information on breastfeeding if you're interested in checking it out sometime. it's really amazing stuff," or something along those lines.

i could see myself acting the same way and coming on too strong, but i think the nice thing to do would be to at the very least agree to disagree (yuck, i hope not) and keep your work relationship intact. you know, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, so maybe if you let her know that you are genuinely concerned that you bulldozed her and still offer her more info she'll be interested in what you have to say rather than put off.

hth

 

[jeca]

Just let it go. It's pretty much the same thing as when talking to smeone who FF an dthey get all defensive when you mention that BM is better, same thing except she is getting defensive FOR her parents. Or maybe she just knows she herself will FF and is already on the defensive end. Either way if she gets that upset I don't think you can change her IMO.