[Mom to E and A]

I lost her 2 weeks ago due to a cord accident at 36 weeks. Her cord was around her neck 5 times and had a knot. I went into labor, and while in triage at the hospital they were unable to find her heartbeat. I was told by my MW that she probably died a day or 2 before.
She only weighed 4 lbs 1 oz...that's my first concern, isn't that small for 36 weeks? My other 3 babes (all born at 39 weeks) weighed 6.6, 6.12, and 7.6. Even my MW said that babies that "age" generally weigh 5 + pounds. Why would she be so small? Think it had anything to do with her cord accident and/or death?
My MW also said when she broke my water it was mostly meconium. She said that Elise (my baby) probably had a bowl movement due to stress. Can anyone tell me more about this? When? When she was dying? Why wouldn't there be any fluid? Where did it go? Was it before or after she died? How does this relate to her death?
I know there may not be any answers and "you" certainly can't tell me what happened to my sweet girl over the internet, but I need some answers and possibilites just for peace of mind, so I thank anyone who can shed any light on this for me.

 

[cathicog]

I am so sorry for your loss. Five times is a lot of loops. And a true knot to boot! It sounds like it was truly a cord accident. it does happen, and there is no prevention. Sounds like she was just an active baby. 4 lbs and change is pretty small for that gestational age, and my guess would be that the tight cord/knot was interfering with her growth. So this could be something that had been weeks in the making. The meconium probably happened when she actually died, as the anal sphincter relaxes when a person dies. (It's the reason funeral homes/nursing homes bathe the body before anything else is done with it).I hope that might have shed a little light. I lost a brother this way in 1963. It happens sometimes. I will pray for your and your family's comfort and healing.

:

 

[schoolmom07]

I feel heartache when I hear these stories. Your baby would have been born the day after my daughters birthday. Elise is such a beautiful name and she was a very blessed baby to have been carried by such a wonderful mother. My heart is with you as the loss must be debilitating. Love on mama....You are remarkable. Hugs and tears are coming your way.

 

[SalmonBayDoula]

No answers, just wanted to tell you how sorry I am for the loss of your sweet girl. Gentle thoughts and wishes for you and your family.

Sharon

 

[clovergirl33]

Kelly -- Cathicog said pretty much everything I was going to say about the growth and meconium. The baby takes a part in metabolizing the fluid, so the baby's death a few days before might have caused a decrease in fluid as she was no longer able to swallow and urinate the fluid. Also, just because there was meconium doesn't mean there wasn't any fluid -- there might have just been so much that it made the fluid thick because it was mixed in.

((HUGS)) to you... Remember, I am close by and I'm here for anything you need, or if you just need to talk. Please let me know if there is anything I can do.

Cindi

 

[Mom to E and A]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathicog I am so sorry for your loss. Five times is a lot of loops. And a true knot to boot! It sounds like it was truly a cord accident. it does happen, and there is no prevention. Sounds like she was just an active baby. 4 lbs and change is pretty small for that gestational age, and my guess would be that the tight cord/knot was interfering with her growth. So this could be something that had been weeks in the making. The meconium probably happened when she actually died, as the anal sphincter relaxes when a person dies. (It's the reason funeral homes/nursing homes bathe the body before anything else is done with it).I hope that might have shed a little light. I lost a brother this way in 1963. It happens sometimes. I will pray for your and your family's comfort and healing. :

thanks so much for your thoughts...makes me feel a little better

I think I'm just now starting to question things, including myself, unfortunately.

 

[Surfacing]

I'm so sorry that you lost your little Elise, Mama. What a pretty name.

 

[TzippityDoulah]

I agree with above PPs. Another thought is that often cord issues aren't simgular. for instance if could be that the knot was constricing her growth for a while. causing problems before there was ever any possibility of knowing. that could explain the size. it could be that thought she died at a certain day... she wasn't beign fully nourished from her cord for a while beforehand. so it may not just have been one big incident but a series of them.

that said,

please know our hearts go out to you. it's a traumatic thing to go through - losing a child. and my prayers are with you.

 

[AugustLia23]

First off, I am so sorry for your loss. It is impossible to know for sure how and why everything happened. If your other babies were 6-7lbs at 39 weeks, then 4lbs at 36 weeks sounds pretty on track, since babies gain about .5 lbs per week in the last stretch. This baby would've been only slightly smaller at the same gestation. The mec may have happened as she was asyphxiating, due to the lack of oxygen from the cord's knot or loops loosing flow of blood and oxygen between baby and mom. Do you remember the baby having a period of very active movement before a cessation?

It also appears clear that your baby was likely quite an active one. The baby must make quite a few full somersaults to loop around 5 times and make a knot. Did you ever do any genetic testing, as there is the possibility of neurological disorders...

 

[ommelissa]

Hi, kelly. I have never lost a child, and I have no idea what you're going through. I am so sorry that your little girl passed...
I wanted to encourage you to speak with your midwife again; ask for her thoughts about your circumstances and seek closure with her. I am a brand new student midwife so I'm no expert in that field. But I'm sure your midwife is still thinking of you. She may need some closure, also.
I'll pray for you in your time of grief.

 

[mountainmummy]

I don't visit this part of my story often, because it is so painful. I often feel I should have seen warning signs, or my mw should have, as they were there at my 36 week ultrasound. The low fluid was detected at that time, but was just above the 'low' limit, so not important, I guess. We had been told the 'trauma' probably happened a few/three days prior, and the mec had been there a few days (probably excreted before death) because my placenta was badly stained. When the baby is distressed, maybe they stop swallowing amniotic fluid, thus, producing urine, keeping the fluid levels up, and replenished. I don't know if the cord interfered with the swallowing? Or if the low fluid led to a pinch, as there was less lubrication in the uterus. Aspirating on the mec could have led to further trauma, in terms of wondering how it may have related to her death.

I have turned the possibilities over and over in my mind for a year and a half, yet there are no answers. We'll never know. We'll never know if we could have done something or not. I hate that. I hate that I had a time of manic/frantic movement that was so aggressive, I think that was when she died. I can't even remember when it was, but certainly near the end. As for weight, I don't know. My daughter was 7 pounds, at 39 weeks. By the measuring tape though, I was going down in size, not up. I was measuring at 37 weeks by 39. It does seem a bit small though, I must admit. I'm no expert though. I would wonder if maybe the cord had been there for some time, but not been a huge problem yet... thus, restricting growth somewhat, but not entirely, and not enough to warrant attention?

Honestly, you will drive yourself nuts looking for answers. I did, and still do at times. I can't help it, I also do it for peace of mind. I can't stand that she died, and I may have been able to do something about it. That there may have been a way to save her. I still freak out on my husband and barrage him with "what if's" and he has to talk me down every few months, as I go over the ultrasound, the warning signs, play the blame game, and try to point fingers. Ultimately, there is nothing that will bring her back. It is such a hard, hard thing to accept. I still feel so bitter, so angry about it all.

I hope you visit here often, and find some comfort in the company of women who get it, sadly. You are not alone, and I'm sorry you have to know this pain at all. Big, big hugs.
Steph.

 

[riomidwife]

Oh mama, I just want to offer my

:

:

: and

 

[georgia]

I'm going to move your thread over to Birth Loss so you can get some additional support

 

[MI_Dawn]

I had the same aggressive sort of movement about 48 hours before we found out he was gone. I, too, wonder if that was his last... although I've since found that oxygen deprivation in this way is more like fainting/passing out. It seems unlikely those were my son's last movements. But it does say in the placental pathology report, tight nuchal cord x2... which they didn't tell me at the hospital. I still have to go back to the doc to talk to her about stuff, so I'll ask more then. Perhaps he was struggling with the cord when I felt him move? Of course, I'll never know for sure.

But I had a deeply stained placenta as well, and he'd probably been gone at least 24 hours. Maybe more. Meconium is released upon death, but it's also released under stress. So if baby was stressed before they died, it could have been released then, too.

As for a small baby - it could have been normal for you, for 36 weeks. But I wouldn't rule out getting testing done for things like blood clotting factors, etc. Just in case. My little guy died at 39 weeks and was only 5lbs 4 oz... prior to him, I'd had a 9lb baby, but before that, my daughter was just 5lbs even. She was perfectly healthy, just small for gestational age. (But now I'm wondering if they missed something, or I dodged a bullet with her?)

At my PP checkup, I intend to get testing done for clotting disorders (again - I had them once before, between baby 3 and 4, and everything came up normal...) and also tests to make sure I'm immune to parvovirus (fifths disease) and rubella (that's just in case, for a possible subsequent pregnancy...)

Here are some tests you might consider asking for (that they don't necessarily routinely do):

• thyroid function tests
• lupus anticoagulant
• anticardiolipin antibody titers
• liver function tests
• fibrinogen concentration
• thrombophilia evaluation

I understand looking for answers. It's better safe than sorry - I'm a firm believer in that now!

 

[Kirsten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mom to E and A I think I'm just now starting to question things, including myself, unfortunately.

I think this is natural, but it isn't your fault. There is nothing you did or didn't do to cause it. It is terrible, and we naturally want answers. Sometimes they just aren't there. And no matter how/why it happened, it doesn't change the outcome.

I'm so very, very sorry for your loss.

 

[AbbeyWH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mom to E and A She only weighed 4 lbs 1 oz...that's my first concern, isn't that small for 36 weeks? My other 3 babes (all born at 39 weeks) weighed 6.6, 6.12, and 7.6. Even my MW said that babies that "age" generally weigh 5 + pounds. Why would she be so small? Think it had anything to do with her cord accident and/or death?

i don't know if the cord could have restricted her growth but i do know that growth restriction can be due to a clotting problem. but it looks like you have other healthy children? so i don't know if a clotting problem can be random?
ask your midwife about doing a thrombophelia panel of blood-woork in case she hasn't suggested it already... i am so sorry, i know first hand that this has to be the hardest thing for anyone to experience

 

[marinak1977]

Oh mama, I am so sorry for your loss...

 

[Mom to E and A]

Wait a minute...I had a blood clot in my leg at 10 weeks. Been on Lovenox since (.6mg 2xs day) it could be related to that???

 

[MI_Dawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mom to E and A Wait a minute...I had a blood clot in my leg at 10 weeks. Been on Lovenox since (.6mg 2xs day) it could be related to that???

You did? And they didn't monitor you for fetal growth? *scratching head*

Did they do any tests on you for clotting disorders when you had the blood clot?

You'd think the Lovenox would have been protecting you and babe... but it's possible it wasn't working at the end, when the nutrient requirement increases for baby because they're growing so fast. Did they have you stop taking it at any point?

 

[AllyRae]

I am so very sorry for the loss of your sweet Elise...

: Hopefully someone here can chime in with the name, but I'm pretty sure there is a doctor in Texas who is an expert on cord accidents and he may be able to email you with some insight...

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbbeyWH i don't know if the cord could have restricted her growth but i do know that growth restriction can be due to a clotting problem. but it looks like you have other healthy children? so i don't know if a clotting problem can be random? ask your midwife about doing a thrombophelia panel of blood-woork in case she hasn't suggested it already... i am so sorry, i know first hand that this has to be the hardest thing for anyone to experience

My first son was 6 lbs 15 oz at birth (40 weeks), my second son was 7 lbs 10 oz at birth (41 weeks...he was the one that passed away), and my daughter was 7 lbs 2 oz at birth (36 weeks). So it's really hard to tell what any baby would have weighed...it doesn't often follow a pattern. I also had absolutely no blood clotting issues with my first 2, but between my 2nd and 3rd pregnancies, I developed essential thrombocythemia, so you certain can have blood clotting instances creep up even if you've had healthy pregnancies. I know for a fact how far I was with all of my children as we did NFP, plus I had 1st and 2nd trimester ultrasounds with the first two babies and ultrasounds every 2-4 weeks with Amelia, so I know she was actually 36 weeks...the difference between her and the first two was that I was on a daily aspirin.