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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just how compromised are we (USA Nation) to China considering they have bought up most of our debt (just behind Japan).

If China suddenly say, Pay up or shut up... would it not collapse our economy?

I was poking around for info after talking with a neighbor.... and I had no idea just how vulnerable we have put ourselves with China.

Quote:
The remarks, made by Parliamentary vice-chairman Cheng Siwei, triggered a fall in the US dollar against leading currencies in European trading.

China is a major funder of US debt, holding about $260bn (£149bn) in US Treasury bonds - second only to Japan.

Any reduction in China's dollar assets could hit the US economy.

Should China cut its US dollar holdings, this could drive up long-term yields on US bonds, which could in turn put pressure on interest rates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4875606.stm

the above quote is pretty soft...and might not mean much at first glance..but it did get me thinking........

and then what about North Korea. Wouldn't it be nice if we could ask China..."pretty please" help us with that crazy man in loafers and big hair running amok in North Korea... can you please help us with him? Maybe cut off his oil?

And china says, "ummmm nope."

and what can we do???? nada. They have us by the short hairs.

and then look at how north korea was trying to hurt our economy with bogus 100 dollar bills... and the minute we bust them on it. Kim pulls out of the G6....

so how the hell can we get China to help with Korea when we are so indebted....

Quote:
According to the same defector accounts, Kim Jong Il endorsed counterfeiting not only as a way of paying for covert operations but also as a means of waging economic warfare against the United States, "a way to fight America, and screw up the American economic system," as the North Korean specialist paraphrased it to me

Quote:
Critics of this approach note that the freezing of the North Korean bank accounts took place in the same month that participants in the six-party talks, the multination negotiations over North Korea's nuclear program, hammered out an agreement that the regime would abandon its nuclear-weapons program. North Korea soon reneged on its promise to abandon its nuclear program and has since refused to rejoin the talks until the United States lifts the designation on Banco Delta Asia
shit, we are going to hell in a handbasket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/ma...ewanted=1&_r=1
 

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China is a country with one quarter of the world's population. The Chinese are justifiably very proud of their history and their accomplishments, and tend to think that they are only now assuming their place in the world. I tend to agree.

It is in China's own best interests to contain North Korea. But they will do so in their own way, not necessarily how we would like them to do it. Oh, well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
The Chinese are justifiably very proud of their history and their accomplishments, and tend to think that they are only now assuming their place in the world. I tend to agree.
Heavens they definitely have and deserve their place in the world.. no argument from me. my beef is more with us. I think the part that concerns me is that this country is so fat and comfortable with its Target and cheaply made products (from you know where) and more importantly all of our debt... debt among other things supporting a war that I'm not thrilled about ..that we are compromised. That's the part that is way out of my comfort zone.

As for North Korea.. I think the whole world has an interest in it. Not just us, not just china... gosh, I would think south korea and japan in particular are concerned...

I'm just saying that we go to war with Iraq over a illusionary yellow cakes.. but a Kim Il Jong can shoot his missles where he wants and we can't do much....because we can't afford to piss off Dad (who's got the wallet?) it is at the very least ironic.

and just so I'm clear.. I don't think we are in position to tell anyone what to do..but it is so weird how we just kind kick our shoes and say 'ah-shucks' after the missles went into the sea...

anyway, I think our future is kind of weak looking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by beccaboomom
What would happen to China's economy if we stopped importing all their cheap plastic???
and...

What would happen if we paid a decent wage here AND built stuff here?
 

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Has anyone given thought to economic theory and tried to project an economy without the rampant materialism we have today; an economy that valued well made things rather than gorging on cheap plastic junk imported from China?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by beccaboomom
What would happen to China's economy if we stopped importing all their cheap plastic???
They could sell them at a higher cost to the rest of the world and be even richer for it?
China is far from dependant upon America. It is very much the other way around.
 

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I hope I'm not ruining this thread for Tracy, but I've been thinking about this over the past week (really longer.)

I went on vacation with the family last week and we had cable we don't get at home.

I watched a show on TLC where they buy someone an entire new wardrobe but that person must allow the fashion people to throw away their old wardrobe.

Those people (multiple women, I saw the show a couple of times,) had absurd quantities of clothing. Even a plain woman who didn't care much about clothing had literally 50 or 80 changes of clothes.

Also, the same week, I saw, "This Old House," and they were going through the original master suite. They had a walk-in closet about the size of my bathroom but it wasn't enough for the woman because she had more clothes that didn't fit into the closet.

Everything in the US is geared like this, big for no reason at all.

Why not nice but not huge?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Has anyone given thought to economic theory and tried to project an economy without the rampant materialism we have today; an economy that valued well made things rather than gorging on cheap plastic junk imported from China?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DebraBaker
Has anyone given thought to economic theory and tried to project an economy without the rampant materialism we have today; an economy that valued well made things rather than gorging on cheap plastic junk imported from China?
You're a hundred years late, Debra. William Morris, Gustav Sticklely and others in the late 1800s and early 1900s established the Arts and Crafts Movement in protest against mass produced Victorian goods. They called for a return to the integrity of an earlier era (as they saw it). A Pre-Raphaelite era. In other words, a golden medieval era.

They began hand-crafting furniture and other goods of simple elegant design without the Victorian flourishes and furbeloes. Unfortunately, only the wealthy could afford them. And soon, these simple straight line goods were being mass produced in factories.
 

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Oh, the Arts and Crafts movement.

I don't think I can help the time in which I was born.

DaryLLL, we're of the same vintage, does it bother you that clothing is the same price *now* as it was in the 70's? Doesn't that suggest something is wrong?

I'm just wondering how we could have a really healthy vibrant economy without the over spending that present economists seem to equate with a healthy economy.

And why can't people be happy with what they have?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have a friend who has a sticekly chair.... the arts and crafts movement is beautiful. If you live anywhere near the Rose Bowl when it is flea market sunday you will see plenty of arts&crafts items. 100 years later and we are all fighting for it. just beautiful. --sigh.

I personally believe we are about 18 months from an economic depression. A big one. And my gut says our debt and how it is tied to outside countries will be part and parcel of the problem. I have never felt right after I went to a large harbor here and read what the USA's main export was....something like cardboard...and used clothes... or something like that...sigh.
 

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The Chinese are rapidly moving out of the production of "cheap plastic junk" and into the production of much higher value-added products, such as electronic goods and automobile parts. http://www.uschina.org/statistics/tradetable.html Many companies that used to manufacture clothing in China are now moving to Africa. They are also getting into the financial sector in a big way. So, while cutting down on our consumption of cheap plastic junk is a good idea in and of itself, it's not going to address the issue.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracy
and...

What would happen if we paid a decent wage here AND built stuff here?
The world would explode.

Seriously, with all of the atrocious human right violations in China, I find it hard to support the idea of them being a world power or in a seat of power at all. And I feel that way about every country with the same record. If you can prove that you will do good by your own people, then maybe we'll be your friend.
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I HATE this materialistic view. Sure, I have a lot of stuff. Not from my own choice, but from my MIL who believes that my children aren't happy unless she sends them a garbage bag full of junk every week.
:

It is disturbing. I give most of it away, and keep maybe one thing a month. It drives me nuts! My dh is also incredibly materialistic. Heck, give me a small farm in the country with the tools to make my own darn house and do things the "right" way, and I would be happy to never shop again.

I think that we have far too high a dependency on China and other countries where we get cheap labor and mass quanitities of junk. It reminds me of the movie The Stand. Where the apocalypse comes, or whatever? And all I could think about is all that plastic and junk everywhere. How long would it take for the earth to look the same and heal itself even a little? Going back a century, you see lots of old houses/cities that are "swallowed up" again by the earth, but I know that that just won't happen with today's stuff.
 

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I totally agree Tracy, I've been wondering for years why we are selling our soul to China. And I've been also perplexed how the conservatives can support this when I always hear them talk so nationalistically. I don't get the whole thing, and it's freaking scary. Walmart ain't helping either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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Originally Posted by mara
I totally agree Tracy, I've been wondering for years why we are selling our soul to China. And I've been also perplexed how the conservatives can support this when I always hear them talk so nationalistically. I don't get the whole thing, and it's freaking scary. Walmart ain't helping either.
 

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I may be wrong, but a big difference between asian nations (is asian ok to say anymore? I can't keep up) is that they are very much "what's best for the nation at the cost of the individual" and Americans are very much "what's best for the individual(or corperation) at the expence of nation".....it's all about big business here, and vacations and owning our own homes, whereas there, it's about creating and sustaining a country that will last forever. Am I even close?
 
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