[thepeach80]

I'm just curious if truly people can blame their DRs for a birth gone wrong (not talking unwanted episiotimies etc here). I had a hard birth w/ AJ ending in a c/s, but I don't blame my DR. He did what DRs do, manage birth. I blame myself for not being more knowledgable and for standing up for myself and what I wanted. I used the same DR again and he helped me have a great VBAC experience when some DRs would've given me another c/s.

Anyways, I'm just curious b/c there was a post on another board by a mom who wants a new OB b/c she was unhappy w/ her last experience. Turns out she was induced and had a bad epi and had lots of pitocin etc. Her baby was fine though and except for being really numb a while after birth, things went o.k. I just have a problem w/ her blaming her DR for this though. She was also mad b/c her DR let her go 10 days over! If she didn't want that and didn't want to deliver at the hospital she delivered at, why did she agree to it? KWIM? I guess I understand it all stems from not wanting to take responsibility, but I guess it just bothered me.

 

[applejuice]

Legally, they are responsible for the birth outcome until the baby is 19 years old...You can sue the doctor until your child is 18 and your child can sue when he/she is 19.

Ultimately, I believe it is the parents' responsibility ultimately for the outcome of the birth of their children.

That is why I think doctors should butt out, unless their expertise is called upon.

Congratulations on your VBAC; you have probably a better outlook on this than most people.

 

[MamaTaraX]

Perosnally, I think you can't blame anybody. You can'tbe induced if you don't show up. You can't have a c/s if you don't get an epidural or let them knock you out. Ultimately, birth is the choices made by the parents.
I do think that you can have a crap doctor and that can play into a bad birth experience though.

Namaste, Tara
mama to Doodle (7), Butterfly (2), and Rythm (due at home 1/06)

 

[crunchymomof2]

I dont. Because s a previous poster said I let myself be induced and agreed to the cascade of other interventions that were offered to me.

 

[JanetF]

I think it's a complex question but since I work with a lot of women recovering from birth trauma we talk about it a lot. I feel it's about responsibility. I encourage women to look at the decisions they made that put them in the situation in the first place (didn't think about it, chose an Ob without researching, believed rubbish when told it, scared of making a choice outside of family expectations, whatever) but also, and equally importantly, to look at what constrained those choices (being in a hospy, buying into the system, choosing an Ob whatever). The reality, much as many of us deny it, is that if you pick a surgeon you'll usually get surgery so beats me why you'd get all angry about that

 

[CarrieMF]

In some circumstances, IMO, they can be. There has been more than 1 post here(and other places) about a dr doing a procedure without telling the mom, asking permission, explaining it, etc. Some may argue that it's not the dr's fault because the woman chose to see a dr instead of a midwife or having an unassisted homebirth, however midwives are not available in every area and homebirths are illegal in some places.

I do believe that dr's & nurses can be blamed for pushing their own agenda when a woman has clearly stated her choice/answer that differs from what the medical person wants. Again some would say it's the woman's fault for going into a hospital but it's not the woman's fault at all when she has made her choice but is badgered into changing her mind. Most of it that I've seen has happened when the woman is most vulnerable during the peak of a contraction or immediatly after without giving the woman time to regroup.

If a woman goes along with everything the dr says then, imo no they cannot be blamed unless the dr does something which causes trauma or worse.

Most of the time the blame game is often part of the healing/grieving over how the birth went.

 

[Artisan]

ITA that women need to be better informed and make better decisions regarding their care. Stop agreeing to elective inductions and c/s and the like.

However, doctors do bear some of the responsibility, because women make decisions based on their counsel. Women trust their doctors to be a detached voice of reason. (Often incorrectly, but most of North America still thinks this.) Doctors need to bear some responsibility because it is them that push or agree to certain procedures.

 

[Peppamint]

I agree with a lot of what was said. I do feel partially responsible for my first birth outcome... I allowed myself to be induced, AROM at only 4cm, I didn't stand up to the nurse who bullied me and pushed drugs (oy, a legal drug pusher!) and led me to believe I'd stroke if I didn't lay in bed, at the peak of pushing I allowed the OB to cut me when she said "I'd tear anyway" even though my birth plan said I'd rather tear. Yada yada. However, I was buying into the system and the system failed me.

I take some responsibility and I should probably take it all because when the OB recommended the induction etc I didn't get a second opinion or research it, I just took her word for it.

I took responsibility of my second birth... and I would have accepted the ramifications regardless of the outcome. I'll do the same again.

 

[thepeach80]

Quote:

In some circumstances, IMO, they can be. There has been more than 1 post here(and other places) about a dr doing a procedure without telling the mom, asking permission, explaining it, etc. Some may argue that it's not the dr's fault because the woman chose to see a dr instead of a midwife or having an unassisted homebirth, however midwives are not available in every area and homebirths are illegal in some places.

If things had happened w/out her knowing, yes, I would blame the DR to some extent then. That wasn't the case here though, she went to the hospital she was told to even though she didn't want to deliver there and she agreed to the induction and the epi (which btw, a bad epi has nothing to do w/ the DR!) and then the pitocin after the epi. If she agreed, well IMO, that's her problem then.

We are a very medical city for the most part. Attended homebirths are illegal and many people, myself included, are not comfortable w/ UC. There are a few midwives that work in conjunction w/ DRs and if you're not at risk at all, I've heard they're great for the most part (well, I've heard good things about the one set anyways). For a previous c/s mom like myself, they become MEDwives and are managed closely by an OB b/c of policy. This is kind of a hard town for birth options (I'm awaiting the day someone opens a birthing center), but I think you have to do the best w/ what you have and it still comes down to what YOU chose.

Of course this is actually an acquaitance of mine here in town, so there's no way I could tell her all this!

 

[alegna]

As long as they gave consent, I don't blame the dr. It's the old- nature of the beast argument. The only place I can see really blaming the dr. are those cases they wheel a woman into OR yelling I DO NOT CONSENT (which does happen) or if the dr. does things without telling her after saying he wouldn't (breaking water, cutting, etc).

-Angela

 

[Artisan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alegna As long as they gave consent, I don't blame the dr. It's the old- nature of the beast argument.

This brings up the issue of what is truly informed consent? Most women are NOT given all the information with which to make an informed decision. (And yes, many women do not actively seek out information.) Sometimes women do not have the opportunity to seek additional opinions or conduct their own research -- they are told in the middle of their labor what "needs" to happen, but are not honestly informed of the risks. No one says to a woman, "And you understand that by undergoing this elective C-section you are more than twice as likely to die than if you had a vaginal delivery?"

 

[alegna]

IMO it is as much the woman's job to obtain the information as it is the dr. to provide it. So yes, it's the drs. fault if they don't offer the needed information, BUT it is ALSO the woman's fault for not getting that information.

-Angela

 

[Artisan]

Angela, you have to remember that most people's brains don't work the way yours does. You enoy research (as do I). Many many people do not. They would rather be told what to do by a trained professional. Also, doctors know this and prey on a pregnant woman's vulnerability by playing the sick or dead baby card. Pretty hard for a woman to argue with that. It's hard for someone to stand up and say, "No thanks, I will take my chances with a dead baby."

 

[MonicaS]

I used to blame my OB for my c/s, but the more informed I got, the more I realized I share half the blame.

My OB shouldn't have scheduled my induction on my EDD(it was for 5 days later). She shouldn't have broken my water and started an induction when I had no dilation. She should have listened to me at the beginning of my PG when I told her that I ovulated a week later than what that wheel thing said, since I KNOW the day we DTD and got PG. (The induction happened 2 days before I actually would have even been due.) She shouldn't have put on the internal monitors w/out telling me, causing me to not be allowed out of bed to use the bathroom or walk around.

However, it was also my fault that I did no research what-so-ever. The only books I cared about were the ones that said how big the baby was and what it looked like at each stage. I should have questioned everything, but I didn't question anything. I should have tried harder to get my way and walk around. Any knowledge would have been better than walking in completely at the mercy of my OB and nurses. Knowledge is power, and I had no power.

 

[wannabe]

I think you have to share the blame. Sure, your care provider can give you an opinion and recommendation, but it's up to you to consent.

Part of the reason I found it impossible to cope with the pain in my birth was that I was still in analytical mode from having to make so many decisions. But it means I am totally OK with the decisions I made. No-one forced me to do anything.

BUT we are all articulate, intelligent, educated women. Don't the less fortunate ones get to be able to trust their doctor? Wouldn't it be wonderful if obstetrics was evidence based, and you could just do what you were told andbe assured of the safest, gentlest birth possible?

 

[alegna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reader Angela, you have to remember that most people's brains don't work the way yours does. You enoy research (as do I). Many many people do not. They would rather be told what to do by a trained professional. Also, doctors know this and prey on a pregnant woman's vulnerability by playing the sick or dead baby card. Pretty hard for a woman to argue with that. It's hard for someone to stand up and say, "No thanks, I will take my chances with a dead baby."

Well.... since we're talking opinion... my opinion is, like it or not (and lots of times I don't like the research part, but I feel I am obligated to do it...) that people have a duty to be informed. If you want to be told what to do, then you live with someone else's decisions

-Angela

 

[Unreal]

It was my fault I didn't deck the sOB from my first pregnancy within the first few months of care.

But I was 19 and quite alone and come from a family where you do what the doctor tells you and you do it respectfully without causing trouble.

*shakes head sadly*

Everything else about the birth? I pretty much blame him.
He chose which hospital I would deliver at (a high risk maternity ward, since he had other high risk patients due within the same period as me)
He chose to never tell me I had to actually register at the hospital (he just said--this is where you'll go.)
He chose to never offer me information about childbirth classes, even when I asked (politely)
He chose to refuse to remove the fetal monitor when I asked about about it
He chose to keep upping my pitocin, rather than let me get up and walk around.
He chose to offer morphine for pain management (due to the pitocin, due to being unable to walk around, due to the monitor)
He chose to flat out lie to me before he broke my water--telling me it would speed labor up and that what I was feeling now was as bad as it was going to get

I should have figured out he was a butthead when he kept dismissing my questions in our 5 minute prenatal appointments.
I should have fired his butt and found someone new (although he was the only ob within walking distance, and I didn't have a car....which is why I chose him...)

So, do I share the responsibility for how the birth went? Yes.
I should have figured out that he wasn't supportive of a natural birth.
Did I know how to persue other options? Did I know it is okay to tell a Dr 'NO!'?
Nope.
As for staying home? I never even knew it was an option. Honestly!

I've come a long way...largely due to treatment I received at the hands of that sOB...
And I do accept some of the blame.
But I lay most of it on his doorstep.

 

[thepeach80]

Quote:

BUT we are all articulate, intelligent, educated women. Don't the less fortunate ones get to be able to trust their doctor? Wouldn't it be wonderful if obstetrics was evidence based, and you could just do what you were told andbe assured of the safest, gentlest birth possible?

Yes, it would be wonderful if we could trust any DR implicitly (is that the word I want) and not have to worry about it (my brain would be less full), but unfortunately it's not going to happen. It's not just obstetrics. I've been to 2 different GI drs w/ my son and both had very different ideas on what they should do to treat him and what as wrong w/ him. I sought out that 2nd DR b/c I didn't agree w/ the first. I did my research and have kept doing it in the search for an answer. Anyways, I don't believe there is anyone in the US that can't do their own research (o.k. we'll limit that to my city as that's what I know best). All our public libraries (there are 6 I believe) have books and internet access. We have several nurse lines you can call and ask questions. There are more OBs than you could skake a stick at (funny expression I never got) so you can see basically any DR in town! We have public transportation to get you to where you need to go.

 

[Artisan]

Also keep in mind that when people do research on a tpoic, they often consult "trusted" sources that parrot the prevailing obstetrical wisdom. So someone may think they are doing research, but in reality they aren't.

 

[MamaTaraX]

Quote:

Well.... since we're talking opinion... my opinion is, like it or not (and lots of times I don't like the research part, but I feel I am obligated to do it...) that people have a duty to be informed. If you want to be told what to do, then you live with someone else's decisions

Most people don't eventhink they NEED to do research. Why should they? Women have babies all the time. You get pregnant, they come out. What's to research? That's a pretty darn common mentality. I think it is our obligatoin to do our research, to learn what we can, to put ourselves in the hands of care providers that we are knowledgeable about and trust. THer eality is that we dont'. Not just for birth either. We blindly go to all kinds of doctors, specialists... And when something goes wrong, we promptly blame whatever care provider we were seeing at the time.

I can't articulate correctly tonight, I quit.

Namaste, Tara
mama to Doodle (7), Butterfly (2), and Rythm (due at home 1/06)