Mothering Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know where to find out the facts on this?

Specifically, if i were to UC:

At what point do we *have to* take the baby to a hospital or pediatrician?

If we phone an ambulance during or soon after the birth, would the EMT's force us to transfer to the hospital?

If i need medical attention and transfer to the hospital, will they force us to have baby examined? Can they take it away from me or my husband at any point?

If the baby was hurt or if it left us right away, would we as parents be legally responsible for the death?

DH and I had no idea how complicated this would be
: We are both so confident and committed to the idea.... but the details scare me! I worry that these fears will hinder the whole process, so i really really need to find some resources to learn what the legal facts are!!

Any info would be so so appreciated- thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
As health care, constitutionally, is a provincial matter, the laws vary from province to province. As I note that you are in BC, I can shed some light on my experience in BC.

In the last month, the province is starting to take a firm stand on homebirthing b/c of some "shady" (their words, not mine) goings on with the legality of the citizenship of these births. Meaning that they have denied issuing a birth certificate to some children born at home due to questionable residency/citizenship requirements.

Currently, my daughter who is 6 months old, still does not have a birth certificate because they are making us jump through hoops to register her live birth.

Albeit, if I wanted to just take her to a doctor for him/her to declare that indeed she exists, then all would be settled. But as I am philosophically opposed to having medical verification of her birth, I am willing to play their games.

However, I was warned by the Province to warn other homebirthers that it will become increasingly difficult to legally register a homebirth. What that is interpreted to mean is beyond me...

As it is law that all babies are tested for PKU in BC, you will have to get a doctors requistion before going to the lab....meaning a "wellness" check by a doc in order for them to do the req. That was extremely frustrating for us but not something I was interested in taking a chance with. That has been the only time she has seen a doctor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by megviolet View Post
Anyone know where to find out the facts on this?
My first advise would be to join the Canadian UC Yahoo group, if you havn't already, the archives are loaded with discusions about all of these scenarios.

Quote:
Specifically, if i were to UC:

At what point do we *have to* take the baby to a hospital or pediatrician?
Short answer, you don't, at least I don't know of any specific laws that say you MUST bring your baby to see a Doctor. As for the PKU shot, it is mandatory that you get it OR sign an informed refusal form to be filed with the Centre for Womens Health (not sure that's the exact name) who keeps the records of all the results and refusals.

Quote:
If we phone an ambulance during or soon after the birth, would the EMT's force us to transfer to the hospital?
Well, I don't see how they could force you, but I imagine if you had called them there would be a reason, as they aren't Doctors all they can do is stabalize you and bring you to one...

Quote:
If i need medical attention and transfer to the hospital, will they force us to have baby examined? Can they take it away from me or my husband at any point?
I'm sure they would do their best :) if you transfer for yourself and there's nothing wrong with Babe, I would suggest having your Dh bring the baby seperately as apposed to having him/her travel in the ambulance, and don't sign him/her in to the hospital as a patient. Not sure that would be easy, I imagine you'd have to put up a fight, and a call to CPS would probably be likely, not that it wouldn't be likely anyway if there was a transfer for any reason.

Quote:
If the baby was hurt or if it left us right away, would we as parents be legally responsible for the death?
I believe that would depend on the coroners report. I don't know details, bu there was a case in BC recently of a still-born UC, the ambulance was called and the EMTs provided mouth to mouth. My understanding of the results from the coroner is that because of the mouth to mouth it couldn't be said for sure that the baby was still-born...and I have not heard of what happened with the charges brought against the parents.

Quote:
DH and I had no idea how complicated this would be
: We are both so confident and committed to the idea.... but the details scare me! I worry that these fears will hinder the whole process, so i really really need to find some resources to learn what the legal facts are!!
This is one relevant law in Canada, there are more, but I'm not very good at looking for them! There is a woman on CanUC who did the research last year and has said she will put all the relevent laws in the files, but as of yet this is the only one I know..(bolding mine)

Neglect in Child-birth and Concealing Dead Body

Neglect to obtain assistance in child-birth

242. A female person who, being pregnant and about to be delivered, with intent that the child shall not live or with intent to conceal the birth of the child, fails to make provision for reasonable assistance in respect of her delivery is, if the child is permanently injured as a result thereof or dies immediately before, during or in a short time after birth, as a result thereof, guilty of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 226.

That said, how would you prove you did not INTEND for the child to be harmed or die, and you were not trying to conceal the birth? And what constitutes reasonable assistance...we know what their idea is..go to a hospital and have an OB deliver baby for you. But can you show that you were prepared, and that the assistance you had was reasonable for you?

Can you tell that these are all questions I've been asking myself, lol...and I already had my baby!

Points to ponder, eh? Hope that helps, and good luck on your pregnancy and birth!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,492 Posts
I had almost no problems getting my daughters birth verified and and all that. I just phone vital statistics and they sent me a birth package to fill out. I had to get a form notarized and bring along two friends to sign that I was indeed preg., and I did have the baby. that was the only annoying part, paying that lawyer 30$ for signing that paper. (I was in mission, BTW, just across the river from chilliwacky)
I never got the feeling that I was doing something 'illegal'... but maybe I slipped through their cracks. That was in 2004, july. I'm sorry to hear that they're changing the rules about homebirth. I have no fears about doing an UC again in b.c. in the future. They can kiss my ass if they try to bring charges against a natural process like birth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wow, Yola, thanks for all the info! majazama, it's comforting to know that you dealt with 'the locals' and had no problems, i wonder how much has changed....

I think that im covered quite a bit just in that i have been receiving prenatal from a doctor, I have registered at the hospital- even stayed in the hospital for a few days due to a minor complication (there never WAS any complication actually but thats a whole other story...
: )
We even had genetic counseling prior to conceiving so there would be no doubt that our pregnancy is planned and wanted.
I am checking out the yahoo group for sure, but my mind is already eased somewhat, so thanks so much.


I guess it is also simplified for us because we will allow the PKU, so we likely will just show up at the hospital a day or 2 after the birth and report it all and let them take some blood and give a quick exam. I imagine that would be enough, and i expect we have nothing to worry about if CPS gets involved (though THAT would piss me off!)

Anyway, I'll share the info with my husband, thank you so much!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,492 Posts
oops, sorry, I didn't see that you were asking about problems during birth...

my advice is if you really feel the need to phone the ambulance during the birth, you can always tell them that you just didn't expect the birth to happen so fast. You were trying to get to the hospital. I think there would be no questions asked, cause UC is very rare.

I think telling them that you were planning an UC, might make them treat you and the baby a lot differently. you know more of an "emergency", because a woman is thinking for herself, heavens forbid.

and if you don't think they have a right to take the baby away (and you need your DH to back you up, cause birth can leave a woman in a very passive state) then don't let them! They say, that baby needs to be examined, and you say, well do it right here on my chest.

I don't know. I think you have to have the strong feeling that all will be well in your birth, to have an UC. If you feel a lot of fears about the what if's, you might be better off w/ an attendant. But it's good to go though your fears, and examine them to see where they all come from, and if there is any merit in them.

best of luck!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
As far as the diffficulty level of registering the birth, I'm surprised that the PP is having such difficulty. I have a package from VS that they have prepared to send for registering Unattanded births.

It contains the usual Notice of Live Birth form and two copies of a Statutory Declaration which must state : The date and place of birth, The childs full name, The mother's full name including her maiden name, The name and address of the person making the Declaration, A statement that the person was present or had knowledge of the birth.
The Declarations must be signed before a person authorised to take affidavits, which could be the agents at the Vital Statistics Office (although I hear they charge more than a Notary...oh, it says 17.00$ per form for the registrar to sign..)

There is nothing on any of the forms that requires a Doctors signature, or asks for any documantation of the child having been seen by the medical establishment.

For he record though, I have yet to register Ds's birth due to lack of funds for a Notary. My Dh is seriously considering just sending them a letter saying if they require the signatures by law he'll be happy to get them when they pay for them. He's philisophically opposed to being told he has to do something, but it's comming out of his pocket. LOL

HTH..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by majazama View Post
I don't know. I think you have to have the strong feeling that all will be well in your birth, to have an UC. If you feel a lot of fears about the what if's, you might be better off w/ an attendant. But it's good to go though your fears, and examine them to see where they all come from, and if there is any merit in them.

best of luck!!!


That is my beleif about the whole thing as well. I have very strong intuitions usually, and i really am quite certain that the birth will be peaceful and uneventful. I DO have fear about all these small details though, and thats why i feel i need to know all the facts and put those concerns to rest. Also, Shaun is a bit worried and i NEED him to not be afraid as well.

I think that we will probably go into the hospital a few hours after the birth, that same day at least. I mean, i will be the first to want to go if i think anything is wrong! But i would very very much prefer to have my baby here than there... It will just make it so much easier i think... just say *ooops! it happend much faster than expected!* That will be our story for pretty much all our family and friends as well (sadly).

Anyway, thanks again for the help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,200 Posts
I took my boy in for a 'check up' at around 10 days PP and was never even asked about the PKU so I didn't do it
:

It was also really easy for me to get all the documents. I just got a package sent to me specifically designed for an unattended birth, got two friends and went down to vital stats office, and then it was done. No problems at all. I'm in lower BC if that makes a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I'm in Ontario, but I really want to join the Canadian UC yahoo group, but can never find it! If someone can send me a link, I'd appreciate it. Our dd was a planned uc last year but we just said we didn't make it. She was born very quickly and we did take her in to get checked out as her lips and fingers were blue for several hours....we are planning for this baby to be a uc as well, but I need some better info...TIA and all the best to all you Canadian mommas! Meg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by snowymom View Post
I'm in Ontario, but I really want to join the Canadian UC yahoo group, but can never find it! If someone can send me a link, I'd appreciate it. Our dd was a planned uc last year but we just said we didn't make it. She was born very quickly and we did take her in to get checked out as her lips and fingers were blue for several hours....we are planning for this baby to be a uc as well, but I need some better info...TIA and all the best to all you Canadian mommas! Meg

PM'd you the link...see you there!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,591 Posts
I will warn that in Ontario, once the child is born, the child's interests are to be 'protected' by Children's Aid, and if you are in the hospital, your baby cannot be discharged without approval of the doctor, or CAS can be phoned. Stupid, but hey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
You are lucky. I wanted to leave the hospital with my DH and my DD, and was told I could leave, Dh could leave, but DD had to stay unless discharged by DR or CAS
: Reading about UC and laws in ontario, we had a hb with dd2, but it was very quick, and if labour goes as quick this time I want to be prepared and know my rights incase we uc.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top