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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to look into the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. I'm having a hard time understanding all the differences. I've read <a href="http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/catholic_protestant.htm" target="_blank">this chart</a> and I'm still confused. I don't understand what half of it means. For example, the part about Free Will. Is that saying that Protestants believe people can only do evil? That doesn't sound right.<br><br>
Can someone just spell it out in PLAIN LANGUAGE, the differences? Pretend I know nothing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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This is complicated partly because of differences among different Protestant denominations. There was a thread about the whole thing a few months ago, in Religious Studies: <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1190949" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1190949</a>
 

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Thanks. I'll try re-reading that thread and see if I can make any sense of it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Not to complicate the issue but you should really include the Orthodox Church as well.<br><br>
Some issues that made a difference to me (which is by no means all of it.<br><br>
Catholics and Orthodox include the original books of cannon. The Protestants have dropped them out. These include what is known to Roman Catholics as the Apocrypha and to Eastern Orthodox as Deuterocanonical books. (these are almost the same with a few exceptions. it is important to note that what was considered cannon was pretty fluid for several hundred years after the time of Christ.)<br><br>
EO and RC believe the Bible is not the sole athourity on life or God. Church Tradition plays an important role. The Bible was never meant to be a stand alone everything in the world you need to know. Also scripture is to be interpreted through church tradition. Not whatever way our minds percieve it. Most protestants are Sola Scriptura or believe that everything you need to know is in scripture (only the ones they use) and everyone can interpret it themselves any way they want and that interpretation can be their athourity.<br><br>
The function of a Priest in the RC and EO church is different from that of a protestant pastor. And the services have different functions. The Sunday service for protestants happens for reasons I am not quite sure of. Thats one of the reasons I left <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> But the Pastors main function across the lines is to preach a good sermon. motivate/teach/inspire whatever but to preach it. The Priests function is to pray and serve the Liturgy/Mass. He does not interact directly with the congregation the same way the protestant pastor does and the sermon is much shorter (as a general rule 15 minutes is considered long winded. usually closer to 5 to 10 minutes.) Also the resons for differents services are clearly defined. In the Orthodox church the Liturgy is for prayer and cluminates in recieving the Eucharist. Same with Mass.<br><br>
EO and RC are liturgucal. We follow a script for each service. This varies for protestant churches.<br><br>
EO and RC both believe in the bread and wine turn into the body and blod of Christ. Protestants vary on this.<br><br>
EO priests can marry if they marry before they are ordained. Unmarried clergy must remain unmarried. Monastics and Bishops etc may not be married. There are also other restriction on marraige. RC clergy may not marry. Protestant pastors may.<br><br>
the pope. The RC church has a lot of beliefs about the pope that other Chistians do not share. Your best source on this would be the Catholic church. EO believe the pope is just another Archbishop. Back when the EO and RC were part of one church Rome was one of the five principle jurisdictions. The Pope was first in honor amoung equals. Rome insisted he was first in athourity. Do you see the distinction there. it is one of the things that eventually lead the the great schism and the split of the East and West. The four jurisdictions in the East became the EO church and the one in the West became the RC church. The protestants think nothing of the pope.<br><br>
Church structure and leadership. All protestant churchs have different levels of leadership. from nothing to some fairly structured set ups. The EO and RC have a head and athourity structure on down. The EO have a head for each jurisdiction (Russian, Greek, etc) but we have no Head over them. They are just held together by unwavering adhearance to tradition and the Holy Spirit. The Echumenical Patriarch is the first in Honor (having taken the position of Rome when the split happened) but has no real athourity over the other jurisdictions. just the influence afforded by honor.<br><br>
Confession. Protestants confess to God if they confess. RC confess in the presence of a priest but do so annonomously (sp?) and are often given prayers or penance to do. EO confess in the presence of a priest, usually the same one (a Spiritual Father who is like a faith guide or coach) and face to face. While they may be asked to do something to help them overcome a sin or complete full repentence (like give back something they have stolen, go to athourities, stop recieving communion for a time) there is no "penance" to do that is like what the RC church does.<br><br>
both the Catholic and Orthodox church are very specific about what may be used for communion. RC use unlevened bread and wine and EO use levened bread and wine. Protestants use a variety of things.<br><br>
Both EO and RC practice closed communion. In the RC catholic church you may take communion if you are RC (or EO apparently). in the EO church you may only take communion if you are EO and if the priest does not know you or trust you you may still be denied for any number of reasons. The point is to protect you and protect the priest and protect the Eucharist (remember they believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ!!! This is very serious business!). In the EO if you take communion anywhere else you excommunicate yourself. Sometimes you accidently take communion other places and you can get a blessing from your priest to do so in some circumstances but as a general rule....participating in any sacrement outside the EO will excommunicate you. These are very serious matters and should never be taken lightly. In the protestant church closed communion is rare. In the RC first communion is around 2nd grade I think. In the EO church it starts as soon as you are baptized (which can happen as early as 41 days adter birth). In the protestant church it varies by denomination and beliefes about communion, baptism and salvation.<br><br>
Speaking of baptism. Both Catholic and Orthodox Christans practice infant baptism. Protestants sometimes do infant baptisms (this was the norm until very very recent history) while others will only baptize those who are old enough to make a choice. "old enough" is subjective and vaires from one church to the next and I have seen anything between two year olds and people who were forbidden until they were over 18. Also what one must do/prove in order to be baptized varies in protestant churches.<br><br>
Confirmation. Rc practices confirmation as do many protestants. It is a time of owning ones faith and usually happens in churches where infant baptism is practiced. The EO does not practice any sort of confirmation. The baptized are recieved fully into the church at baptism once and for all. Abviously there is no need for confirmation when one is baptized as an adult or where salvation is a moment in time decision.<br><br>
immaculate conception. This has nothing to do with Christ. RC believe Mary was born without the taint of original sin. She was special. different from other humans who were doomed to sin. EO believe Mary was born as everyone else and chose to live a rightous life because she just loved God that much. Prot. believe none of this.<br><br>
More about Mary. Both the Catholic and Orthodox revernce Mary for a variety of reason and she plays a huge role in doctrine. Both believe she remained a virgin until her death. (chrch tradition in both teach that she served in the temple from the time she was a child, her marriage to joseph was his second and was a marriage more of convinience than pasison. He was to care for her once her parents died but he was much older and had children from a previous marriage.) At any rate....protestants believe little to none of this.<br><br>
praying to Mary and the rest of the saints. The EO and RC both believe in communioon of the Saints. what makes a person a saint varies. There is a very detailed process in the RC church. In the EO church not so much. Martyrdom will make you a saint in the EO church. as well as other things. Both traditions believe the souls of the departed immidiately go on to eternal life with Christ and are as real and alive as anyone on this side of the ever after. So therefor just as you would ask a friend here on earth to intercede for you you can ask a friend in heaven to intercede on your behalf. protestants generally are not ok with this.<br><br>
Statues, icons and idolotry. RC uses statues. EO uses icons (very specific 2d images). These items are aids to worship. They do NOT worship the items or the people they represent. it is not idolotry in and of itself (although like all things these things can become idolotrous in the hands of some people). protestants tend to consider this idolotry. How statues and icons are used varies.<br><br>
Purgatory. many catholics believe it. no EO believe it. no protestants believe it. it is not official doctrine in any church.<br><br>
Sacrements. EO and RC believe the sacrements (they are different in each church although some overlap) deliver devine grace to the recipient that will help them on their journey to salvation. these are not items on a check list to get you to heaven. Protestants vary on this by tradition. Many believe things like baptism are nothing more than symbols and marriage a contract.<br><br>
Sign of the cross. EO go head, heart, right shoulder, left shoulder. RC go head heart left shoulder right shoulder. protestants...very few still use the sign of the cross but Lutherans held on to it for a long time. The sing of the cross acts a simple prayer calling on the Father Son and Holy Spirit.<br><br>
Salvation. Both the EO and RC believe the salvation is a process. Also at no point is there anything one can do or say that will assure their salvation. Many protestants believe that salvation is a moment in time. some say you can never lose it. some say it can be lost. Some think it is as simple as repeating the rights words and believeing God exist and that you have sinned. other think it is more complicated than that. There are probably a million different believes amoung protestants about this (which is probably what is making a simple comparrison so hard.) No body believes officially that salvation can be earned by works or sacrements.<br><br>
speaking of works...The EO and RC believe that works are the manifestation of a living faith. If you ahve no works, you must not have faith and therefore should be concerned about your salvation. Many protestants believe that any works are a lack of faith. Also many believe that it doesn't matter if your faith produces works or not you are saved all the same. But the beliefs vary widely.<br><br><br>
Christs work on the cross. Most of the Western church (protestant and RC) believes in Subsitutionary Attonement.....Christ's death on the cross is the only things that could satisfy the debt we owed God for our sin. The Eastern Church focuses more on Christs victory over satan and freeing people from the grip of hell. taking back what was his. setteling a score. I had read a really good article on this somewhere and can't find it now.<br><br>
Do you have any specific doctrines or practices you have questions about?<br><br><br>
Here is a nother chart that might be more simple.<br><a href="http://christianityinview.com/comparison.html" target="_blank">http://christianityinview.com/comparison.html</a>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you so much! That was very helpful! I've been in a spiritual journey for a while and exploring different paths. I was *raised* as a Congregationalist. But by that I mean that's what my mom said we were, but I stopped going to church when I was 7 and she said I could choose for myself. I became Wiccan when I was 13 after researching it for a couple years. After a few years I started considering myself just a general Pagan. Lots of drama happened when I was an older teen and I found myself in a non-denominational *Christian* church. More drama. In hindsight I can see it was more of a cult than a real church. Due to the abuse I experienced through it I became very afraid of Christianity. Even though logically I know it wasn't truly Christian, it's all I really knew of it. I've tried going to church since then and find myself so nervous and anxious I can't let myself really *believe* anything. I've tried going back to Wicca or Paganism, but it feels so hollow now. Lately I've been intrigued by Catholicism. But I know basically nothing about it. And what I was finding myself through Google was only serving to confuse me more.<br><br>
I do have a question... so, Eastern Orthodox isn't Catholic? Or is it another denomination of Catholic?
 

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The short version is from the start there was one church. That was happy and loving for about a thousand years and it was very clear what was good doctrine and bad doctrine and heretics were delt witrh swiftly. but the part in the West grew seperate from the parts in the East, seperate by geography, language and culture. Eventually, about 1043 everything blew up and there was a mutual excummunication between the West and East. There were several key doctrinal differences. The pope, a change in the Nicean creed, amoung other things. Then it got really ugly blah blah and Rome split off from everyone else. The archdiocese of Rome became what is now known as the Roman Catholic church. The archdioceses in the East became what is known as the Eastern Orthodox church. There was a small split amoung the Orthodox (I forget when) and the group that left is the Oriental Orthodox. Shortly after the split from the east the there was the Reformation in the west with the protestant breaking off from the Catholic church. But was was known as protestantism then still looked a whole lot like the Catholic church. But because the whole protestant spirit spread like wildfire and now there are literally millions of protestant churches each with their own ideas and doctrines.<br><br>
here is a really good timeline. <a href="http://www.saintjamesmodesto.org/timeline.html" target="_blank">http://www.saintjamesmodesto.org/timeline.html</a><br><br>
Its complicated. the Eastern Orthodox church is Catholic but not Roman. We are completely seperate. but have not always been. We used to be one church for about the first 1000 years of Christian history.
 

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I sent you a PM too. Actually I think I sent it twice. Sorry.
 

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Unfortunatly the chart is wrong, besides being hard to understand if you don't know the lingo.<br><br>
I'm not sure that it is really a great method even if it was accurate - it doesn't give much of a feel for how each group really thinks. And as Lilyka pointed out, it doesn't mention the Orthodox, who in some ways closer to Catholics, and in some closer to Protestants, but are different than either.<br><br>
You can usually separate Protestants into a few groupings though.<br><br>
There are the Lutherans who came out of the German Reformation, and other groups related to them (some of the national churches in Europe.)<br><br>
The English Reformation which includes the Anglicans, and the Methodists who are a branch off of them.<br><br>
The Radical Reformation, which gave rise to groups like the Mennonites or Amish.<br><br>
The Calvinists<br><br>
You might find <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:protestantbranches.svg" target="_blank">this</a> chart useful when considering Protestants.
 

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Hey just to confuse the issue a bit. I am practicing roman catholic. We have in our archdiocese a married priest. He has his own parish. He was a Lutheran minister for years before he converted. It is rare but priest can be married under these circumstances. Also you can become a priest if you are a widowed.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk"> Subbing
 

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The Lutheran convert is beautifully surprising. I think some of the hardest conversion stories I hear are people who wish to convert but to do so means leaving their profession as a pastor. How beautiful the church would make a way for him!<br><br>
The widowed thing makes perfect sense.<br><br>
How does the Catholic church handle divorced people who wish to enter into the priesthood? Especially if the divorce was before conversion or if the spouse was unfaithful? This may be another thread entirely....
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilyka</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15432714"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">How does the Catholic church handle divorced people who wish to enter into the priesthood? Especially if the divorce was before conversion or if the spouse was unfaithful? This may be another thread entirely....</div>
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That is a good question. A lot would depend on if you were married in the Catholic church or had your marriage con validated. If you did not have either of these things done you are not considered married i.e. you are living in sin and cannot partake in communion etc (even if you were married civil). So it would not matter much if you got divorced as the church never considered you married in the first place. On the other had if you were married in the Catholic church and you would have to get an annulment through Rome (as well as divorced two separate things). If you are granted an annulment then your marriage never existed so that would leave you single so I suppose you could become a priest. I have not heard of it before but I am not sure how many priest would announce I was married before in this kind of situation. I am not 100% on this...just reasoned it outloud based on what I know of church law.
 

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I have a question regarding converting to EO vs RCC for a divorced/remarried person. Do both require an annulment? Can you receive communion without an annulment and/or without being officially married in the church? What about if your current spouse is not a Christian, much less willing to convert?<br><br>
I hope I'm not taking this thread too far OT. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">
 

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Your spouse does not need to convert or even be a christian to get married in the Catholic faith. He/she does have to agree to raise your children Catholic. I am not even sure if that is cannon law or just something some priest ask.<br><br>
The annulment only comes to play if they were married in the Catholic church. If they were not married in the Catholic church in the eyes of the church the marriage did not exist. Do not confuse the word annulment with divorce. Annulment is religious and divorce is legal i.e. state govern.
 

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Something else I thought about in terms of confession. In the protestant tradition I grew up in (I cannot speak for all of them and I am sure it varies...) if confession was brought up, talked about or thought about it was more or less admitting you were a sinner and did indeed sin. Because we are human and we have no hope of being anything else. So it was mostly "I know I am a sinner and I know i need God to save me from death hell and the grave". In the Orthodox church (and most likely Catholic but I am not sure) when we confess we are talking about specific stuff. I did this and here is why. It is supposed to be a brutally honest look at our actions and motivations as well as true repentence (true sorrow, making amends and turning from that sin). It is confessing like confessing to a specific crime in court. (although it is also a really sweet and gentle sort of thing. as hard as it is, I love confession, well the end of it anyway when he is saying the prayers of forgiveness over me..... Preparing for it is probably harder than actually doing it. Anyway...I could go on for along time about the merits of the sacrement of confession and reconciliation but I will spare you. Just wanted to point out that confession means something very different to Catholics and Orthodox than it does to many protestants.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mum4boys</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15432771"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your spouse does not need to convert or even be a christian to get married in the Catholic faith. He/she does have to agree to raise your children Catholic. I am not even sure if that is cannon law or just something some priest ask.<br><br>
The annulment only comes to play if they were married in the Catholic church. If they were not married in the Catholic church in the eyes of the church the marriage did not exist. Do not confuse the word annulment with divorce. Annulment is religious and divorce is legal i.e. state govern.</div>
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Thank you. That makes sense. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Purple Sage</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15432763"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have a question regarding converting to EO vs RCC for a divorced/remarried person. Do both require an annulment? Can you receive communion without an annulment and/or without being officially married in the church? What about if your current spouse is not a Christian, much less willing to convert?</div>
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In the EO church this is all on a case by case basis. What is best for the person and their journey and what is best for the marriage. All I can do is relate how it was all handled for me.<br><br>
First of all there are no anullments in the Orthodox church. and weather or not a marriage needs to be blessed if husband and/or wife convert depends on the jurisdiction. Civil marriage is considered valid and binding though. Having your marriage blessed just takes it to a sacremental level. Our wedding ceremonies are completely different and have different expectations that what most americans expect or know of marriage ceremonies.<br><br>
So I was converting without my husband. My priest asked me to wait. I don't know what would have happened if I said no. he may have questioned my rediness to convert if I could not accept his guidence on this.....but I am a pretty submissive person so i said ok. and I agreed with his reasoning. His reasoning was that we should pray that we could convert as a family. Also there was some question as to weather or not the girls would be allowed by my husband to convert as well. Anyway, so wait we did.<br><br>
A few months later my husband told me he was having an affair and had been for many many years with the same woman. My priest gave me a blessing to seek a divorce if I chose that and we scheduled our chrismation (A sacrement given after baptism which is how you join the church officially) and the childrens baptisms were scheduled for a few weeks out. Since it was clear (regardless of my choices for my marriage) that my husband was not going to join the church with us and was in no way capable of being a spiritual head for our family my priest saw no reason to delay things any longer or seak my husbands consent to baptize the children. By the time the actual baptism rolled around I had filed for divorce. we were about two weeks into it. that made him and his family at the baptism more than a little awkward. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I should not have invited them ....it was a dissaster.<br><br>
But so when I converted I was not yet divorced but I still recieved communion. Recieveing communion and my need for the healing and sanctifying and strengthening properties of the Eucharist was one of the main reasons our joining the church was not delayed. My priest agreed I needed it. And then once the divorce was final i was still of course ok to recieve.<br><br>
So while I was married and my husband was not with us on the road to converting I was fine and while I was divorced (now) I am also fine.<br><br>
Converting while married if your spouse does not want to convert is hard. Not because the church hates you but because they seek to bring your whole family in together. It is not at all uncommon though. They take more of a "lets give it a little while" approach. But it does not appear that my status as married outside the church with an unbelieving husband or divorced effected my ability to be in good standing. there are many divorced people at my church and several us started out married converts.<br><br>
So that is how the Orthodox church handled this case. They have been so good to me through all of this. There has been no judgment or restrictions put on me because of my husbands unbelief or his acts which led to the break up of our marriage. I know a couple of divorced people were just sent away by their spouse <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> forced to leave. So it is not just me getting a break because my xh committed adultry. And we are not only allowed to join the church but we could become monastics as well as fill some other positions in the church. I could never be a priests wife and if I remarry my husband could never become a priest officially (there are always room for exceptions when the Bishop feels it is necessary).<br><br>
I could get remarried in the church. (as a matter of fact my priest is very hopeful and encouraging to this end and has not mentioned anything as far as me needing to do anything to tie up loose ends in my first marriage. although he has given me dating advice...so cute!) It is not the same as a first marriage. It is seen differently and the cermony and such are different. My first marriage would always be a part of me. It can never be "undone". and I could get married a third time in some special circumstances. I am not sure what they are. but never ever a fourth time under any circumstance. and all marriages count even those from before you joined the church.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mum4boys</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15432771"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your spouse does not need to convert or even be a christian to get married in the Catholic faith. He/she does have to agree to raise your children Catholic. I am not even sure if that is cannon law or just something some priest ask.<br><br>
The annulment only comes to play if they were married in the Catholic church. If they were not married in the Catholic church in the eyes of the church the marriage did not exist. Do not confuse the word annulment with divorce. Annulment is religious and divorce is legal i.e. state govern.</div>
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See, with the Orthodox, a person who is Orthodox BEFORE getting married can ONLY - no ifs, ands, or buts - marry in the Orthodox Church a Christian baptized in the name of the Trinity, if the other half of the couple isn't Orthodox. The non-Orthodox half of the couple has to be a baptized Christian. If Jewish, Muslim, or atheist, no go. If you get married outside the Church - whether it's a civil ceremony, in a non-Orthodox Christian body, or even another religion's ceremony, you're "outside the Church." You've excommunicated yourself. You can't partake of any of the sacraments, you can't serve as a godparent, and you can't be buried from the Church. How long the excommunication lasts depends on your bishop.<br><br>
However, if only one half of a married couple converts AFTER marriage, that's not an issue, although it could create some interesting pastoral issues in parishes where your exact situation is not known.
 

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Wow! I need a head spinning smilie! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> Lots of info here! I'm really tired tonight so I'm going to read most of it tomorrow. I may very well be back with more questions. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Purple Sage</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15432763"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have a question regarding converting to EO vs RCC for a divorced/remarried person. Do both require an annulment? Can you receive communion without an annulment and/or without being officially married in the church? What about if your current spouse is not a Christian, much less willing to convert?<br><br>
I hope I'm not taking this thread too far OT. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"></div>
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In the case of the Catholic Church, you mean a situation where the person is divorced and remarried, both outside the Catholic Church.<br><br>
An important issue would be whether the husband and wife in the first marriage were both baptized, and if either was baptized as a Catholic, where they married. These things could make it much easier to have the marriage declared invalid or in the case of the unbaptized, dissolved.<br><br>
But in <span style="text-decoration:underline;">all cases</span>, the CC assumes the first marriage is valid. Until this is proven not to be the case, there can be no recognition of the second marriage.<br><br>
So, in such a case, the person could still convert, but would be expected to refrain from living as married partners with the spouse until the first marriage was declared invalid, and the second one convalidated.<br><br>
Especially if there are children it is considered ok to still live together, but no sex.<br><br>
The difficulty here is that you cannot go to confession, take the Eucharist, and be confirmed, if you are living in an adulterous relationship and intend to continue to do so.<br><br>
And it can't be guaranteed that the first marriage will be declared invalid - it might not.<br><br>
Also, the non-catholic spouse no longer needs to promise to raise the children catholic.
 
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