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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The vaccination to help prevent cervical cancer has been on offer here since 2008 and more than 200,000 New Zealand girls have had it.

The scientists say it's safe, but some girls and their families have serious doubts.

They want to know whether Gardasil is to blame for what's happened to them.

In two cases, that was sudden, unexplained death. In others, crippling illness.

Watch the video for the full 3D report

Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/3d/c...accine-2015110813#disqus_thread#ixzz3rCrJ2B6U
 

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Interesting review.

Will be dismissed as unfortunate coincidences.
 
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Cannot be determined via a documentary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The unknown cause of death of the 16-year-old girl who had never woken up after getting Gardasil earlier the same day was very sad and the lack of reviewing the case to determine if the vaccine was the cause was just as sad.
 

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Documentaries can get the word out and affect change. See Blackfish, Super Size Me, Bowling for Columbine, The Inside Job, Thin Blue Line.

I'd like to hear from those parents here that might think it is okay that when a child dies and no known cause is determined through autopsy, that no investigation/review/inquiry is held. Do these parents deserve an answer? How should they proceed with their other children?
 

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Again: we need studies, not documentaries.

Even if there was a question scientifically as to whether eating 10s of thousands of calories a dayfor 30 days would make most people gain weight it wouldn't have been determined via this documentary.

Ive posted stories here before of otherwise healthy teenagers dying suddenly with no explanation even after autopsy. It's rare (that's why they tend to make at least the local news) but it does happen.
 

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Right.

Teacozy do you hear McDonald's saying "would you like that meal supersized" anymore? That's what the documentary changed.

SeaWorld just stated they are phasing out the performing Orca shows. Thanks Blackfish!

I believe Kmart stopped selling ammunition. Bowling for Columbine.

Thanks to the Inside Job, Columbia enacted a policy of public disclosure for outside activities and COI.

As a result of The Thin Blue Line, a man wrongfully convicted for murder was exonerated.


After watching "The Greater Good", a pro-vax friend decided against the HPV vax for her daughter. ( A good thing too because her daughter had a huge lump in her arm previously when vaccinated- a reaction to the Aluminum she was told.)

Maybe the powers that be in NZ can be shamed into holding an inquiry at the very least. Maybe more parents that see it will not vaccinate their daughters with that vaccine.. And maybe parents with injured daughters will unite and demand justice for their children.

What we need is action. What we need are people committed to looking for answers no matter what real investigation points to as the cause. More BS studies prepared and written up by people with conflicts are not what anyone needs.
 

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Ah yes, studies like the recent one in Europe that determined that two specific conditions are not connected to HPV vaccines. However, no attempt was made to figure out if the problems the actual girls are experiencing actually correspond to the two specific conditions. Even though I haven't read the study, I'm quite sure about that.

You see, those awkward and inconvenient Danish doctors did write a paper describing a number of cases and they tried to explain that POTS didn't really match up exactly with what they were seeing.

This is why case studies don't count. They are darned inconvenient, so we'll just say they don't count and ignore them.

There was actually quite a bit of useful information in that documentary. Too bad no doctors in NZ are willing to stick their necks out and compile some case studies about the sick girls. They seem to have quite a bit in common. As do the sick girls in Denmark. And the sick girls in Japan.

None of them matter. Because "science." Although I'd rather cynically translate that as because "profits".

Note that this is a perfect example of teacozy's double standard. She has been presenting the story of the kids with pertussis as important information.

A documentary that reviews the cases of four sick girls and two dead girls, however, can be dismissed. It isn't science.

Hint. Blogs aren't science and they aren't important information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
This young girl in the U.S. went to the doctor for a sore throat and at the same visit (sick visit take note) was vaccinated with an HPV vaccine (Gardasil I assume). She, only a few hours later, fell asleep and never woke up. The family is devastated and knows it's the vaccine. This story is just about identical to the girl in the documentary in the OP, with the same common denominator of their unusual strikingly rapid deaths in otherwise healthy girls after the vaccine, never wakening after falling asleep. Another case where "they just don't know the cause of death." There are more similar cases of deaths being attributable to Gardasil.

Why people are choosing to turn a blind eye to these cases is absurd, considering these same people's children may also be affected by the mandating of this dangerous vaccine. How much more do people need to see to say something is just not right.

http://fox6now.com/2014/08/07/the-o...o-the-doctor-kill-a-healthy-12-year-old-girl/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Curious, what reasons do the provax on this forum use for not watching documentaries such as the above? I find it interesting that the provax easily dismiss these documentaries, indicating causation or coincidence can't be determined by such; however, at the same time, these same individuals don't seem to bring themselves to actually watch the documentaries. Why? What's the harm in actually watching and hearing what the opposition is saying? Seeing real girls and their parents who claimed the vaccine harmed them. Without a reasonable explanation as to why the avoidance of these documentaries, I'm going to assume it's because if faced with the true cases of harm after Gardasil, by watching such documentaries, in which the links appear more obvious, denying a link actually exists between Gardasil and such cases becomes more difficult, therefore it's much easier to avoid and continue to deny and state that the "science speaks for itself" while ignoring what people are actually saying.

I'm thankful for documentaries. I'm trying to figure out why others wouldn't be; @samaxtics pointed out all of the reasons why documentaries are helpful above.
 

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What's even more odd about not watching (and commenting anyway) is that some if not most documentaries/investigative reports usually present the opposing side too. The Greater Good for example had Offit and other provax people. How many provax people here watched that documentary?
 

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Right.

Teacozy do you hear McDonald's saying "would you like that meal supersized" anymore? That's what the documentary changed.

SeaWorld just stated they are phasing out the performing Orca shows. Thanks Blackfish!

I believe Kmart stopped selling ammunition. Bowling for Columbine.

Thanks to the Inside Job, Columbia enacted a policy of public disclosure for outside activities and COI.

As a result of The Thin Blue Line, a man wrongfully convicted for murder was exonerated.


After watching "The Greater Good", a pro-vax friend decided against the HPV vax for her daughter. ( A good thing too because her daughter had a huge lump in her arm previously when vaccinated- a reaction to the Aluminum she was told.)

Maybe the powers that be in NZ can be shamed into holding an inquiry at the very least. Maybe more parents that see it will not vaccinate their daughters with that vaccine.. And maybe parents with injured daughters will unite and demand justice for their children.

What we need is action. What we need are people committed to looking for answers no matter what real investigation points to as the cause. More BS studies prepared and written up by people with conflicts are not what anyone needs.
And what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? The OP asked "Cause or Coincidence" so that is the question I was answering. If the question is "can documentaries influence individual people into doing/believing XYZ" then my answer would be yes, sure they can. Just like the "Jabbed" and "Vaccines: Calling the Shots" documentary likely influenced some people to vaccinate their kids.

Whether we should keep Orcas in captivity is an ethical (and maybe legal) question, not a scientific one so my point still stands that you cannot determine a question of science by a documentary or television segment.
 

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Teacozy, I suppose one needs to watch documentaries to understand the point. Perhaps the genre doesn't appeal to you?

Have you or have you not watched the piece in the OP?

Obviously you haven't watched Blackfish because you would know there is a scientific element to the issue.

But carry on talking about something you haven't seen.
 

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Whether we should keep Orcas in captivity is an ethical (and maybe legal) question, not a scientific one so my point still stands that you cannot determine a question of science by a documentary or television segment.

Unless they cite science, interview scientists, or otherwise make a scientific case. :shrug

Did they?
 
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And actually, we rely on science to determine the ethical questions of whether or not to keep orcas in captivity. All of those scientific matters about their needs, their behavior, their breeding habits, etc. are critical to answering these questions.

On that note, we cannot answer political and ethical questions about vaccines without scientific information, e.g. whether or not to recommend Class C vaccines to all pregnant women.

Science and ethics can be pretty tough to separate.
 
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Another question where science and ethics can get crossed is the value of case studies for identifying new syndromes. You can't carry out the "big" studies until you have some clues of what you need to look for. But there are definitely people whose financial interests would be hurt if a new syndrome was clearly identified and linked with certain profitable vaccines. Which may explain the reluctance to consider case studies.
 
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