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i saw this on another board today and wanted to get thoughts on this. If it's been already discussed, please show me where, thanks<br><br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5707a1.htm?s_cid=mm5707a1_e" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=mm5707a1_e</a><br><br>
My take, I'm interested to know how many cases happen and how severe they are. Right now I'm planning not to vax our kids any more, but if measles becomes more and more common, we may reconsider. We don't travel or go to big events much, but we socialize with people who get around much more than we do. It would take a lot more measles before I'd get worried though.<br><br>
The vax is pushed hard
 

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My problem here is with this quote from your link (bolding mine):<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">PADOH reviewed vaccination records for 481 players, coaches, translators, and event staff members at the compound; 292 (61%) either had <b>documentation of 2 doses of measles-containing vaccine</b> or history of measles disease, or were born before 1957 and were, therefore, considered immune. The remaining 189 (39%) were offered measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine or serologic testing</td>
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So as long as the people had a piece of paper that said they got shots, they were automatically immune? It would have been interesting if they did serologic testing on that group to see just how many of the "immunized" were actually still immune to measles.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KBecks</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10737551"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">but if measles becomes more and more common, we may reconsider.</div>
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But why? What's the big whup with measles?
 

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No one should be able to do the risk analysis for some else's family. Some people are ok with measles, some people see nothing to fear and are not bothered by the percentages on complications.<br><br>
On the other hand, some people are.<br><br>
I don't think anyone can judge those on the "other side".
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>carriebft</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10738588"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No one should be able to do the risk analysis for some else's family. Some people are ok with measles, some people see nothing to fear and are not bothered by the percentages on complications.<br><br>
On the other hand, some people are.<br><br>
I don't think anyone can judge those on the "other side".</div>
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I wish various governmental and medical organizations saw it that way. They have their risk analysis all wrapped up and it indicates that everyone needs to be vaxed for measles except for a tiny group who would drop dead more or less immediately (at least that is my read of the contraindications list). Nothing in there about religious beliefs or families doing their own risk analysis.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>oskie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10737997"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br><br>
So as long as the people had a piece of paper that said they got shots, they were automatically immune? It would have been interesting if they did serologic testing on that group to see just how many of the "immunized" were actually still immune to measles.</div>
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The wierd thing is that cases 6 & 7 each had 2 documented doses of MMR. So In August they are ASSuming that everyone with documentation is immune, but then 2 people with documentation end up with measels in September. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>carriebft</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10738588"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No one should be able to do the risk analysis for some else's family. Some people are ok with measles, some people see nothing to fear and are not bothered by the percentages on complications.<br><br>
On the other hand, some people are.<br><br>
I don't think anyone can judge those on the "other side".</div>
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i agree.<br><br>
but it seems that the respect is not extended to both sides.<br><br>
one person does the risk-benefit analysis and vaccinates. yay! what a reasonable, civic-minded citizen doing their duty.<br><br>
another does the same analysis and chooses not to vaccinate. and this person is branded as an irresponsible selfish freeloader who rides on the coattails of herd immunity while "endangering" the herd. (meanwhile the logic of this is asinine and a topic for another thread...)<br><br>
there is a fundamental lack of respect for people who are exercising their right to fully informed consent and decision making.<br><br>
and that is a problem.<br><br>
in addition, reports like the mmwr above just continue to foster xenophobia.<br><br>
stuff like this happens. people get measles. isn't it a wonder that disease outbreaks don't happen more often around massive international sporting events like the olympics for instance, where there are hundreds of thousands of athletes, spectators and media from all over the world congregating in one place?
 

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Well, I hope eventually when it becomes more mainstream to research vaccination and look at your own situations that people will become less hostile. I don't agree with such beliefs (hostility because you read your family's risks one way and another sees their own family's risks another way).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Benji'sMom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10738725"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The wierd thing is that cases 6 & 7 each had 2 documented doses of MMR.</div>
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That's the thing, what is the effectiveness?
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KBecks</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10739085"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's the thing, what is the effectiveness?</div>
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Isn't it only effective 1/3 of the time? Or am I thinking of the wrong vax?
 

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I don't have the details on San Diego but I have them for Switzerland. The incidence of a VAD does not affect my vaccination choice.<br><br><br><br><br>
Here is the information on the Switzerland <b>Measles</b> outbreak:<br><br><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp</a><br><br>
483 cases total for <b>November 2006- July 2007</b>.<br><br>
Quote:<br>
Six percent of the 445 cases for whom a detailed questionnaire had been submitted were vaccinated against measles (18 with one dose and nine with two doses), 87% were unvaccinated, and the vaccination status of the remaining 7% was unknown. There were 43 cases (10%) requiring hospitalization. Among 445 cases for whom information about complications was available, four cases were reported with encephalitis (1%), all among children, 29 cases with pneumonia (7%, median age 10 years), and 31 cases with otitis media [earache](7%). No deaths were reported.<br><br>
<br><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edition/v13n08/080221_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp</a><br>
Switzerland Measles Outbreak - From <b>Nov 2006 to Feb 2008</b>:<br><br>
"1405 cases<br>
1319 cases for which detailed information available**<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edition/v13n08/080221_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp</a><br>
Switzerland Measles Outbreak - From Nov 2006 to Feb 2008:<br><br>
"1405 cases<br>
1319 cases for which detailed information available**<br><br>
Hospitalizations** 104 -- 7.9%<br>
Pneumonia** 63 -- 4.8%<br>
Otitis Media (ear aches)** 62 -- 4.7%<br>
Encephalitis** 6 -- 0.5%<br><br>
The proportion of vaccinated patients has been low for all ages (Figure 4). There were 104 cases (8% of 1,319 cases for whom information about hospitalisation and complications were available) who required hospitalisation. Six cases were reported with encephalitis or suspicion of encephalitis (0.5%), all among children. No deaths have been reported." The average age is eleven.</td>
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I wonder how we all came to fear measles so much?<br><br>
When I had measles my mother did not even call the doctor. Nor did I when my three children had it. The first time we became concerned about measles at all was when my grandson came down with measles 10 days <i>after he had been vaccinated</i> for it. They had tricked us into being afraid of a childhood infection that we have never been afraid of before.
 

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It's not always fear and many are not "tricked". I can really only speak 100% for us, but it's not fear in our case. I don't tremble about measles, but we look at the possible risks and then at the vaccine and our family situation...we decided to opt for the vaccine. And it's not because someone is telling us to " be afraid!" or whatever.<br><br>
I suppose if you categorize any acceptance of risk as "fear"....but I don't. I saw risks in switching to cow's milk for my daughter at one year, but I did not "fear"...I just looked at the facts and made a decision based on what we felt was best and the research we had done.<br><br>
It's the same idea here.<br><br>
It's just simply looking at facts and at our own situation and making a decision. One person may look at the stats Emmeline posted on the switz outbreak and think one way and another person another way....even if they have not been tainted by cdc fearmongering.
 

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Carrie - I understand totally where you are coming from because you have done the research but MOST people who vax have not done that research and are vaxing out of fear. Before I did my research and was planning on vaxing, I really feared all diseases like Mumps, Measles, etc.<br><br>
I personally look at the study above and can't understand how anyone would find that scary <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> No one died and the only serious case were the 6 encephalitis cases. We don't really know if that caused any brain damage or if they fully recovered.
 

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I'm perfectly okay with anyone who does the research and decides to vax. But doing the research means more than reading a few pro-vax items in a book, magazine or on the web, just as doing the research against vaxing involves more than reading a few anti-vax items.<br><br>
The CDC pages for parents have some seriously distorted statistics, designed to terrify parents into vaccinating.
 
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