Cesarean support circle III (moved from Finding Your Tribe)
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First let me say congratulations ladylee.
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I'm so happy for you that all went well and your stay in hospital was a short one.
As for the issue of cesarean deliveries as a forum or subforum I apologize if I have responded in a manner that seemed to be a mere sweeping it under the rug. I will be straightforward. Mothering has never claimed to be everything for everyone and has no intention of trying to be. We cannot offer support for every single interest in the way of separate forums or subforums. We can and do encourage those who fall between the forums by way of title to start support threads for their needs.
To open a forum or subforum for cesarean section would, out of fairness, mean we should also open a forum for other interests such as formula feeding, disposable diapering, and religious circumcision (yes, we have received requests for these boards). That is simply not a direction that Mothering is intending to take. While Mothering has a defined main purpose and adheres to that, we try to make room for support and help in the things AP parents find themselves dealing with as a part of their own personal life choices and necessities for their families that don't really fall under the natural family living topics of Mothering's advocacy. That doesn't mean we can set up separate forums for whatever folks feel they need and we should. But it does mean that within the defined topics that make up Mothering we will try to make room for respectful discussions for things that aren't Mothering advocacy focused but are a reality of life for some Mothering parents.
Now that I've pulled that out from under the rug
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let me explain the new setup. When the question-request arose in Questions and Suggestions to place a cesarean board I discussed the subject with the moderators and the resounding response was that there really isn't a general board to place any sort of birth discussion other than VBAC and Homebirth. I'm Pregnant gives the board a "pregnancy discussion" feel so birthing discussions, whether c-section or vaginal birth, seemed to have fallen betweeen the category cracks and were being placed here and there. That's why we decided to open Birth and Beyond. That forum is intended to host birth discussions of all sorts, including cesarean section. VBAC, Homebirth, and Birth Stories are intended to be subforums within the Birth and Beyond board. But because I'm having a setup problem with the board system in getting it to show subforums I had to place the VBAC, Homebirth, and Birth Stories titles as part of the Birth and Beyond title so they wouldn't disappear. So that's something I am working on correcting. The board is Birth and Beyond and will accomodate c-section discussion for those who need the info and support there. If I can get descriptions working again that will be reflected in the description.
If not having a separate board devoted to cesarean section will cause us to lose support of some of our members I'm very sorry to hear that. But I must say again that we can't be everything to everyone. We do try to make room for respectable discussion of cesarean section for those who need it and if anything inappropriate is being posted in such discussions it should be reported.
| Originally posted by ladylee Our daughter Alena was born September 19th at 7:54 am--7 lbs 13 oz, 19.5 inches!!! We were in the hospital for two days and came home yesterday--we were able to nurse half an hour after delivery and overall, it was a very positive, beautiful, and joyous birth. She's doing wonderfully and I'm feeling good, as well. I must say I'm annoyed by how this forum is set up without any mention of cesarean deliveries other than VBAC--it's very difficult for anyone who is unable to have a VBAC BUT IS STILL A NATURAL PARENT to find support. I suppose I can understand Mothering not wanting to mention the C word without a VBA before it--but I no longer feel particularly interested in supporting Mothering if that's the case. It has been repeatedly asked that there be a *clearly* identified place where we can find support, and I feel this issue has been swept under the rug over and over again. 
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As for the issue of cesarean deliveries as a forum or subforum I apologize if I have responded in a manner that seemed to be a mere sweeping it under the rug. I will be straightforward. Mothering has never claimed to be everything for everyone and has no intention of trying to be. We cannot offer support for every single interest in the way of separate forums or subforums. We can and do encourage those who fall between the forums by way of title to start support threads for their needs.
To open a forum or subforum for cesarean section would, out of fairness, mean we should also open a forum for other interests such as formula feeding, disposable diapering, and religious circumcision (yes, we have received requests for these boards). That is simply not a direction that Mothering is intending to take. While Mothering has a defined main purpose and adheres to that, we try to make room for support and help in the things AP parents find themselves dealing with as a part of their own personal life choices and necessities for their families that don't really fall under the natural family living topics of Mothering's advocacy. That doesn't mean we can set up separate forums for whatever folks feel they need and we should. But it does mean that within the defined topics that make up Mothering we will try to make room for respectful discussions for things that aren't Mothering advocacy focused but are a reality of life for some Mothering parents.
Now that I've pulled that out from under the rug
If not having a separate board devoted to cesarean section will cause us to lose support of some of our members I'm very sorry to hear that. But I must say again that we can't be everything to everyone. We do try to make room for respectable discussion of cesarean section for those who need it and if anything inappropriate is being posted in such discussions it should be reported.
Congratulations Ladylee! It seems as if everything is going smoothly. Let us know how things are going with you and your new addition and the rest of family.
To all of you mamas who don't feel supported here: don't leave MDC.
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You have my support and you are a resource of information for me. I also think that it is important for other natural parenting mamas to read your feelings, ideas, opinions...about c-sections.
I'd go on, but I need to get dressed. I don't think I can go out walking in just my underwear and the shirt I slept in. I should throw on some shoes at least.
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To all of you mamas who don't feel supported here: don't leave MDC.
I'd go on, but I need to get dressed. I don't think I can go out walking in just my underwear and the shirt I slept in. I should throw on some shoes at least.
Cynthia, thanks for the congratulations.
The board is Birth and Beyond and will accomodate c-section discussion for those who need the info and support there. If I can get the descriptions working again that will be reflected in the title.
The exclusion of cesarean deliveries in the title was exactly what I was objecting to--thanks for clarifying that it will be part of the Birth and Beyond description.
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One more thing, and sorry to be a nudge, can we get rid of the word "section" and use "delivery" instead? Language is so powerful, I know I don't like to feel like I'm an orange being sectioned.
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The board is Birth and Beyond and will accomodate c-section discussion for those who need the info and support there. If I can get the descriptions working again that will be reflected in the title.
The exclusion of cesarean deliveries in the title was exactly what I was objecting to--thanks for clarifying that it will be part of the Birth and Beyond description.
Thanks MamaOui-for both the good wishes and the support
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I have pictures! From my three year old daughter's perspective:
http://www.picturetrail.com/alenarane
I have pictures! From my three year old daughter's perspective:
http://www.picturetrail.com/alenarane
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25,974 Posts
Sorry. I guess I'm out of check with what the appropriate terminology is. Will make a note to avoid use of the term "section".
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Let me correct myself to say that it won't be placed as a part of the title but a apart of the description. The other boards will be removed from the title and each made a subforum within Birth and Beyond.
Let me correct myself to say that it won't be placed as a part of the title but a apart of the description. The other boards will be removed from the title and each made a subforum within Birth and Beyond.
Congratulations Ladylee!
I must say Cynthia, that one difference between a c-section forum and circ and bottle feeding would be the fact that issues such as circ and bottle feeding tend to most often be a matter of choice (exept perhaps in cases where someone cannot breast feed), whereas a c-section is often something that happens to us dispite our wishes. In my case, I *tried* my best to avoid surgical delivery, despite cervical scarring and a spinal/pelvic deformity, I really, truely tried, and it is so hurtful when my births are not considered as worthy of mention as a v-back would be.
It just hurts that VBAC can be a part of the title, but Cesarean can't. Like my births aren't worthy of a mention, but those who have "succeded" at VBAC are.
Sorry if this may not seem quite clear. MDC can do what it wishes, I have no right to demand otherwise, but this does really hurt.
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In any case, its not like someone would spend two days in pain trying not to circ, like I spent in labor trying to not be cut open.
DeAnna
I must say Cynthia, that one difference between a c-section forum and circ and bottle feeding would be the fact that issues such as circ and bottle feeding tend to most often be a matter of choice (exept perhaps in cases where someone cannot breast feed), whereas a c-section is often something that happens to us dispite our wishes. In my case, I *tried* my best to avoid surgical delivery, despite cervical scarring and a spinal/pelvic deformity, I really, truely tried, and it is so hurtful when my births are not considered as worthy of mention as a v-back would be.
It just hurts that VBAC can be a part of the title, but Cesarean can't. Like my births aren't worthy of a mention, but those who have "succeded" at VBAC are.
Sorry if this may not seem quite clear. MDC can do what it wishes, I have no right to demand otherwise, but this does really hurt.
In any case, its not like someone would spend two days in pain trying not to circ, like I spent in labor trying to not be cut open.
DeAnna
Cynthia, I understand what you're saying and I have no intention
of leaving thse boards (I get too much out of it and I LIKE to be a fly in the ointment
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I totally agree with dlb, and this is the exact problem I had with
Peggy's response when I wrote to the magazine a year ago
(posted that story above in this thread).
I highly doubt that most of us here on this forum would have had an elective, scheduled cesarian for convenience. I for one went
through 34 hours of contractions, was still not dilated and my son wouldn't descend at all. I burst into tears when
I finally agreed to let the doctor do the cesarean. I felt like a failure and that feeling comes back when it is implied all cesarians are unnecessary.
of leaving thse boards (I get too much out of it and I LIKE to be a fly in the ointment
I totally agree with dlb, and this is the exact problem I had with
Peggy's response when I wrote to the magazine a year ago
(posted that story above in this thread).
I highly doubt that most of us here on this forum would have had an elective, scheduled cesarian for convenience. I for one went
through 34 hours of contractions, was still not dilated and my son wouldn't descend at all. I burst into tears when
I finally agreed to let the doctor do the cesarean. I felt like a failure and that feeling comes back when it is implied all cesarians are unnecessary.
Count me in on this thread! And congratulations, mamas of September babies - LadyLee and Treelove.
I've actually been watching this thread for awhile, not sure if I should contribute. You see, 9 weeks later, I feel like I've come to terms with the fact that my homebirth turned into a c-birth. Without going into the whole (loonnng) story here (I plan to post my account to Birth Stories at some point), I believe that my cesarian was necessary. I didn't feel like I was railroaded into anything - hospital, drugs, interventions - and believe I got good guidance the whole way through. I trust my midwife's judgement about transporting (not to mention my doula and also my sister, a nurse and mom of 5, who was also there), and I ended up in a hospital that is demonstrably supportive of going it the natural way. In fact, the OB who ended up operating on me was a friend of my midwife's and someone she really trusted - as I did by the end. (Long story short: We transported after over 12 hours of labor due to late decelerations. I was in a great deal of pain. At the hospital, it turned out that I was not dilated in the least. With pitocin I dilated, but stopped as soon as the drip was cut off (due to more late decels). Then, 42 hours into the labor, there was thick dark meconium.)
Anyway, the issue I am dealing with now is what my body did wrong, what *I* did "wrong." Why didn't I dilate at all? Since I didn't, why did it hurt so much the whole time? Had I forgotten everything I'd read and done in preparation for 10 months? Did I "give up" as soon as I got to the hospital (part of me says I did). You see, I made the conscious choice not to even consider a transport. I was so sure it wouldn't happen. I was so certain that my labor and my son's birth would play out beautifully at home - I was sooooo prepared: mentally, physically and spiritually. But I wasn't prepared for the hospital.
As a result, I had absolutely no game plan for laboring and delivering at the hospital. Even though I had the fantastic support of my midwife, my doula, my DP and my sister there - and later the best of OBs (and some great nurses - the first of whom had been a homebirth CNM in another state for 20 years before moving here, where she had been forced to choose between being a nurse and being a midwife) - I myself did not feel like I had my *own* support, if YKWIM. I myself asked for an epidural about 4 hours into the pitocin drip (and over 24 hours after labor had begun). Meanwhile, I had never even considered the prospect of drug interventions beforehand.
My experience afterwards could not have turned out better. Even though my DS ended up with pretty bad meconium aspiration and refused to nurse for more than 4 days, I *was* nursing for the first time as soon as I got into the recovery room (thanks to my mw). Bf'ing has been no problem ever since, and DS is now in the 90th or upwards percentile for everything.
So I'm torn: I feel grateful that we came out of everything OK. But I also feel disappointed in myself, that I "couldn't" do it. That, when people ask, I can't say "I had a homebirth/waterbirth." And: What will happen next time? If I couldn't do it under ideal conditions, how will I perform in my post-cesarean world?
Sorry for my wordiness....
I've actually been watching this thread for awhile, not sure if I should contribute. You see, 9 weeks later, I feel like I've come to terms with the fact that my homebirth turned into a c-birth. Without going into the whole (loonnng) story here (I plan to post my account to Birth Stories at some point), I believe that my cesarian was necessary. I didn't feel like I was railroaded into anything - hospital, drugs, interventions - and believe I got good guidance the whole way through. I trust my midwife's judgement about transporting (not to mention my doula and also my sister, a nurse and mom of 5, who was also there), and I ended up in a hospital that is demonstrably supportive of going it the natural way. In fact, the OB who ended up operating on me was a friend of my midwife's and someone she really trusted - as I did by the end. (Long story short: We transported after over 12 hours of labor due to late decelerations. I was in a great deal of pain. At the hospital, it turned out that I was not dilated in the least. With pitocin I dilated, but stopped as soon as the drip was cut off (due to more late decels). Then, 42 hours into the labor, there was thick dark meconium.)
Anyway, the issue I am dealing with now is what my body did wrong, what *I* did "wrong." Why didn't I dilate at all? Since I didn't, why did it hurt so much the whole time? Had I forgotten everything I'd read and done in preparation for 10 months? Did I "give up" as soon as I got to the hospital (part of me says I did). You see, I made the conscious choice not to even consider a transport. I was so sure it wouldn't happen. I was so certain that my labor and my son's birth would play out beautifully at home - I was sooooo prepared: mentally, physically and spiritually. But I wasn't prepared for the hospital.
As a result, I had absolutely no game plan for laboring and delivering at the hospital. Even though I had the fantastic support of my midwife, my doula, my DP and my sister there - and later the best of OBs (and some great nurses - the first of whom had been a homebirth CNM in another state for 20 years before moving here, where she had been forced to choose between being a nurse and being a midwife) - I myself did not feel like I had my *own* support, if YKWIM. I myself asked for an epidural about 4 hours into the pitocin drip (and over 24 hours after labor had begun). Meanwhile, I had never even considered the prospect of drug interventions beforehand.
My experience afterwards could not have turned out better. Even though my DS ended up with pretty bad meconium aspiration and refused to nurse for more than 4 days, I *was* nursing for the first time as soon as I got into the recovery room (thanks to my mw). Bf'ing has been no problem ever since, and DS is now in the 90th or upwards percentile for everything.
So I'm torn: I feel grateful that we came out of everything OK. But I also feel disappointed in myself, that I "couldn't" do it. That, when people ask, I can't say "I had a homebirth/waterbirth." And: What will happen next time? If I couldn't do it under ideal conditions, how will I perform in my post-cesarean world?
Sorry for my wordiness....
(((melixxa))) , congtratulations on the birth of your child.
Your story sounds so similar to mine it's scary!
Sometimes, even when we set up all the "right" conditions
for a non-interventive birth, things go differently from how
we planned.
To paraphrase Janet Balaskas (mother of the active birth movement) , "all births are 'natural' births," even if some of us end up requiring medical help for the safety of ourselves and our babies.
Your story sounds so similar to mine it's scary!
Sometimes, even when we set up all the "right" conditions
for a non-interventive birth, things go differently from how
we planned.
To paraphrase Janet Balaskas (mother of the active birth movement) , "all births are 'natural' births," even if some of us end up requiring medical help for the safety of ourselves and our babies.
{{{{melixxa}}}}
I think all of us c/s mammas feel a tad of what you are saying!
I know I do and mine was 3 years ago and it was a matter of life
and death for my ds! That is why this Birth and Beyond forum was
created.....to offer support for moms that have birth and 'after'
birth related issues. No matter how much later the issues exist.
I think the "defeated" feel of having surgical births if perfectly
normal and difficult to understand for those moms that don't
have experience with it. Pregnancy and birth come so easy for some
and so hard for others...and it's hard to relate to the one that
doesn't correspond to you. KWIM?
I think Mothering and the community does a great job by
supporting all types of birthing/feeding and diapering etc. That's what
is so great about MDC and why we are all here and growing in
members. I think we will all benifit by having this forum and thread
so we can support each other with the different feelings we have.
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I think all of us c/s mammas feel a tad of what you are saying!
I know I do and mine was 3 years ago and it was a matter of life
and death for my ds! That is why this Birth and Beyond forum was
created.....to offer support for moms that have birth and 'after'
birth related issues. No matter how much later the issues exist.
I think the "defeated" feel of having surgical births if perfectly
normal and difficult to understand for those moms that don't
have experience with it. Pregnancy and birth come so easy for some
and so hard for others...and it's hard to relate to the one that
doesn't correspond to you. KWIM?
I think Mothering and the community does a great job by
supporting all types of birthing/feeding and diapering etc. That's what
is so great about MDC and why we are all here and growing in
members. I think we will all benifit by having this forum and thread
so we can support each other with the different feelings we have.
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4,300 Posts
haikiru and ladylee (hope i spelled those right)
thanks for writing what you did above, about mamas who have birthed via cesarian, and are natural mamas, etc. i was glad you posted that. in a way, it made me feel less hard on myself for a myriad of things i wont blab on about right now...and i found the other posts about people assuming you should try to have a VBAC especially thought provoking. all and all i am glad i came back to this thread tonight because this discussion is very supportive in my opinion.
which leads me to also wanting to thank Cynthi Mosher for her post also....and i wanted to say that if it werent for these boards i dont know what i would have done after my c-section. i perspnally didnt need a specific C board, there were pletny of places for me to post questions like under health and healing, PPD, life with a babe, etc. I got a TON of help and support , which , in an internet kind of way helped me through the most difficult time of my life. i am in total deep appreciation of that! its nice that the boards are getting organised in new ways , so it is easier for someone too find stuff on any given topic, but i dont persoanlly think a specific board for every interest is needed, when we are all free to post questions, etc, on so many of the boards, and people will respond within our threads....and i cant imagine it being possible anyway...ibesides. if stuff got too catagorised there woud be less inter-mingling on the boards, because each board would be so specilised. KWIM?
ok this is off topic a bit, sorry
thanks for writing what you did above, about mamas who have birthed via cesarian, and are natural mamas, etc. i was glad you posted that. in a way, it made me feel less hard on myself for a myriad of things i wont blab on about right now...and i found the other posts about people assuming you should try to have a VBAC especially thought provoking. all and all i am glad i came back to this thread tonight because this discussion is very supportive in my opinion.
which leads me to also wanting to thank Cynthi Mosher for her post also....and i wanted to say that if it werent for these boards i dont know what i would have done after my c-section. i perspnally didnt need a specific C board, there were pletny of places for me to post questions like under health and healing, PPD, life with a babe, etc. I got a TON of help and support , which , in an internet kind of way helped me through the most difficult time of my life. i am in total deep appreciation of that! its nice that the boards are getting organised in new ways , so it is easier for someone too find stuff on any given topic, but i dont persoanlly think a specific board for every interest is needed, when we are all free to post questions, etc, on so many of the boards, and people will respond within our threads....and i cant imagine it being possible anyway...ibesides. if stuff got too catagorised there woud be less inter-mingling on the boards, because each board would be so specilised. KWIM?
ok this is off topic a bit, sorry
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8,390 Posts
ladylee and treelove--CONGRATS!!! I'm glad everything went well for you! (btw--my baby sister turned 20 on the 19th!!!)
It seems I missed quite a bit...not sure I really want to chime in on it though...
I willsay to Hikaru that I have had that thought of "of course you can VBAC!" But I'mmnot saying do it if you arent comfortable. To me it is like parenting. We have to make an educatated decision on what we do with our births as well as our parenting.
As for calling c/s c/b........ I also have issues with this. Because when I was pg with ds I was so used to the idea f birthing my baby that I felt that my son was delivered...not birthed.... this is an issue I'm still working on....
My other thing is that I'm thinking about maybe becoming a doula as my kids get older. But i told dh I wasn't sure i ould do it in good conscience but he said I was being stupid. That jsut because I didn't push him out myself it didn't mean I didn't experience hard labor. I just didn't get anywhere and that my birthing experience was as valid as anyone elses! (I love my dh
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I also think some c/b (
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) are necessary! I think mine was. In my situation. Ds had no decels or anything. I was more of the concern. My ob was afraid I was too close to rupture to go on. One of things that has helped me accept how my experience unfolded is that without the medical intervention of a c/b that me and my son may have died. That 100 years ago we would have died.....
It seems I missed quite a bit...not sure I really want to chime in on it though...
I willsay to Hikaru that I have had that thought of "of course you can VBAC!" But I'mmnot saying do it if you arent comfortable. To me it is like parenting. We have to make an educatated decision on what we do with our births as well as our parenting.
As for calling c/s c/b........ I also have issues with this. Because when I was pg with ds I was so used to the idea f birthing my baby that I felt that my son was delivered...not birthed.... this is an issue I'm still working on....
My other thing is that I'm thinking about maybe becoming a doula as my kids get older. But i told dh I wasn't sure i ould do it in good conscience but he said I was being stupid. That jsut because I didn't push him out myself it didn't mean I didn't experience hard labor. I just didn't get anywhere and that my birthing experience was as valid as anyone elses! (I love my dh
I also think some c/b (
Thank you for the congratulations, everyone! Congratulations Tree Love, can't wait to hear more from you, and welcome melixxa!
Can we open up a dialogue about where to house this thread? My personal feeling is that I do not want to be here in the Birth forum after all-for various reasons, and would prefer to be back in finding your tribe. I'd like to hear what others feel and see if anyone else would be interested in doing this, or if it matters to you at all.
dlb--I also feel the same way-thanks for writing what you did. This is why I would rather be back in Finding Your Tribe.
Have a great day everyone!
Can we open up a dialogue about where to house this thread? My personal feeling is that I do not want to be here in the Birth forum after all-for various reasons, and would prefer to be back in finding your tribe. I'd like to hear what others feel and see if anyone else would be interested in doing this, or if it matters to you at all.
dlb--I also feel the same way-thanks for writing what you did. This is why I would rather be back in Finding Your Tribe.
Have a great day everyone!
Quote:
With all due respect, can I ask why you are feeling this way? Isn't this a main
reason we opened this forum?
Do you mind explaining your feelings a little more
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| Originally posted by ladylee Can we open up a dialogue about where to house this thread? My personal feeling is that I do not want to be here in the Birth forum after all-for various reasons, and would prefer to be back in finding your tribe. I'd like to hear what others feel and see if anyone else would be interested in doing this, or if it matters to you at all. |
reason we opened this forum?
Do you mind explaining your feelings a little more
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8,390 Posts
I honestly think this thread will serve its purpose more in this forum than any other. I think that those that are 'browsing" are more likely to come across support from c/b moms in birth and beyond forum than in finding your tribe.
I guess I see your point but I guess i don't see what the issue really is. I understand that VBAC isn't always an option and I think that maybe that it could be removed as a description for this forum... but lets face it...repeat c/b is in the minority. More and more are wanting vbac becasue more and more women are realizing their c/b were unnecessary and from mismanagement ...at least that is what I've come to understand.
I'm not sure what the point would be of moving the thread...I thought it was for support for women who have experienced c/b and anticipating a vbac as well as those that are planning a repeat. The point is to get support through what we've been through and issues that we face that those who had vag births don't. Or am I wrong?
I guess I see your point but I guess i don't see what the issue really is. I understand that VBAC isn't always an option and I think that maybe that it could be removed as a description for this forum... but lets face it...repeat c/b is in the minority. More and more are wanting vbac becasue more and more women are realizing their c/b were unnecessary and from mismanagement ...at least that is what I've come to understand.
I'm not sure what the point would be of moving the thread...I thought it was for support for women who have experienced c/b and anticipating a vbac as well as those that are planning a repeat. The point is to get support through what we've been through and issues that we face that those who had vag births don't. Or am I wrong?
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