[ladylee]

I'd be happy to explain my position more. It's very simple-I do not feel cesarean births (by necessity) are being given fair representation in this forum and am feeling left out. I understand that Mothering is not here to be everything for everyone (I never asked it to be,) as it's so frequently said, but it is also my and other s' right to try and affect positive change for our circumstances and create the best environment for ourselves. If someone who has had a cesarean by necessity browses through the forums they see "Birth and Beyond:Subforums Homebirth, Birth Stories, VBAC." That's not exactly a green light to come on in and find support for their situation. And it seems it's being suggested that what's now being offered in the Birth and Beyond forum is ample enough for us. Even in the former I'm Pregnant forum setup a message would come up saying "cesarean births by necessity" when your cursor landed there. Unless something is wrong with my cursor, I see no such message on the Birth and Beyond forum. I'll go check that now, though.

I feel precisely the way dlb expressed-you can go back and read her observations to know how I feel.

I'm not trying to beat the proverbial horse--I'm interested in seeing if it matters at all to people, or not. If it doesn't matter, that's fine. I certainly want what's best for the group, but as an individual, this is something I'm having a very hard time getting around.

its our family--the VBAC forum exists for people to process their cesareans as they plan for their VBACs. Those of us who did not have VBACs made people uncomfortable in the forum when we discussed repeat cesareans. There was really no place for us, thus the creation of the thread in Finding Your Tribe. Certainly the intention of that group is to help anyone at any stage in their cesarean experience, but it is primarily the only place where those who don't have VBAC as an option can go for support.

I'm done!

 

[its_our_family]

I understand about the VBAC forum...I felt the same way when I asked a question about why they decided to vbac...since I wrestling with my own decision and it was like..duh what else would you do....

As for the new forum...I don't think the subheadings apply to the whole reason for the forum. It is the same as the parenting issues has subheadings for multiples, working parents, and such...it doesn't mean to exclude ppl who aren't in that category. I think the forum as a whole is a very good idea. Those that are uncomfortable with the idea of repeat c/b need to just leave those threads alone out of respect for those in the thread.... but move the thread where you want.... I'll follow right along!

I just don't see what point it will make to move it.... but I guess there isn't necesaarily a point is it?

I've tried to use this new forum to ask ?? about repeat c/b but have not gotten much response.... it seems even those planning a repeat aren't touching the posts....

Quick question c/b scar related.....is baby mvm,nt more pronounced on the incision site? Just curious....

 

[mamaley]

This might be

T but Congrats Ladylee! I've been wondering about how you're doing and how baby is doing. If you posted about it on the sept mamas board, i missed it (but that's not a surprise, as only half of my brain has been functioning lately...).

 

[melixxa]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

LadyLee, I think I understand your concerns totally. Ever since I ended up having a cesarean while trying for a homebirth, I haven't been sure where I 'belong.' I have been hesitant about posting in both Homebirth (thought I might spook people since I know *I* didn't want to hear any negatives beforehand) and VBAC (I am nowhere near the point of VBAC'ing since I just gave birth to my first only 2 1/2 months ago!). And yet I have wanted - and needed - to work through some of my c-related issues and questions. It seemed that Life with a Babe was the only place for me - and that is dedicated solely to issues surrounding the babes, not the moms....

I guess part of not knowing where to go here to voice some concerns ties in a bit too much with those feelings of having failed in some way by having a c-birth to begin with. As in 'I failed in this, and so Mothering no longer has a place for me.'

I have to say, though, that I don't like the idea of being moved back to Finding Your Tribe. The reason is that I never did *find* this thread there to begin with! The fact is that I think Finding Your Tribe is hard to find, hard to navigate. It never would have occured to me that such a thread as this would be there. A while back, I happened to read in another thread that a "cesarean support" thread existed in FYT and I went to look for it. And never did come across it!!

Anyway, I'm wondering if there isn't an easy compromise. Why can't the word Cesarean simply be added to the Birth and Beyond tagline? Of course, I do understand that the Mothering boards 'can't be all things to all people,' but this little subset is obviously representative of some of Mothering's audience. There are more than just a few of us. And that was an excellent point made here earlier that, while disposable diapering and circ'ing are choices and choices only, c-births are often forced on us.

Which is exactly why we need to process them.

I hope I'm making sense here. Feeling a bit sleep-deprived today....

 

[Missgrl]

Quote:

Originally posted by ladylee Even in the former I'm Pregnant forum setup a message would come up saying "cesarean births by necessity" when your cursor landed there. Unless something is wrong with my cursor, I see no such message on the Birth and Beyond forum. I'll go check that now, though.

ladylee~None of the forums do that anymore! Cynthia had to remove that function in order to get the subforums to show up under their heading titles. Some quirk in VBulletin i think.

and thanks for the clarifying

 

[ladylee]

Why can't the word Cesarean simply be added to the Birth and Beyond tagline?-melixxa

This is what I've been asking about also, melixxa.

Missgrl-ok, thanks for telling me that.

Again, my concern is that people know where to find us.

Thank you, mamaley! I need to visit the September thread.

itsourfamily--I didn't notice any pronounced movement at the incision-I had three years between my first cesarean and this pregnancy.

 

[cynthia mosher]

I can insert a description for the Birth and Beyond board that would reflect the inclusion of cesarean and other birth related discussions. The subforums would then follw beneath that. Would that make you, ladylee and others with the same feelings, feel accepted and validated here in this forum? Or is this a deeper issue? When we had cesarean included in the description of I'm Pregnant there was still a move to the Tribe board for a separate thread so it seems to be a bit deeper than a mere description need.

This is something I'll be discussing with Peggy O when I speak to her soon.

 

[MamaOui]

Speaking as someone who has had a c/b and a VBAC, I can totally understand what ladylee, dlb, melixxa, etc...are trying to say. Even after a VBAC, I had c/b issues that I wanted to process and discuss and I didn't know where to do that here. Some of those issues were about my positive feelings I had with my c/b. I just wanted somewhere for support and not posts telling me why most c/b's are unnecessary or how I could avoid a c/b. I'm guilty of some of that here, because I thought that women posting in VBAC would be looking for alternative info.

But sometimes we just need support and we are lucky that MDC provides us with the forums to get the information we need to help us make informed choices (although it seems that most c/b mamas didn't choose their c/b's). Now that the Birth and Beyond section lacks a subcatergory for c/b mamas, I can understand why there feels like no place for these mamas to process, discuss, and yes, celebrate their births.

There are times when I feel like the scarlet letter should be C not A. There's all this guilt attached to it. Or the other end of the spectrum is there is so little thought put into c/b's that it's seen as no big deal to a lot of mainstream people. As an APing mama(and as a mama trying to be as natural as I can be), I felt that I had very little support in processing my c/b. I would have loved to find a board like this, with a c/b forum, to help me.

 

[MamaOui]

I posted at the same time that you did Cynthia. Seeing the word cesarean would be a big help to mama's looking for support.

 

[its_our_family]

You know... I never really thought about my feelings toward my c/b (have I mentioned how glad I am someone pointed this out! It makes me feel that the birth of my son was a lot less medical

) was realy bothering me. I knew when I firt came home i was upset about it. That I had failed but I brushed it off trying to encourage myself with thoughts of... "It was fort eh best" "At least Tracy is here and healthy" I know these are both true but I was using them as an excuse to not let lyself feel upset.

I do have positive thoughts of my labor and delivery of my son...even if it wasn't what I expected. It wasn't a horror story it was a beautiful story....

In fact...I'm going to add my unexpected wonderful c/b story to the birth stories forum.... I'm not ashamed of how my son was birthed or disappointed in myself. And I think that maybe writing his birth story so everyne can see it is a good step......

 

[wwhippetcrazy]

I think that it would be nice to have the cesearian added....although I think cause I dont' post enough lately I don't really have the feeling of not belonging in the Birth and Beyond forum, regardless of the subheading (just my feelings)...I haven't had the time I want to browse the forums as much and maybe would feel differently if I did, as all I usually have time to do is reply and look at threads I get emails for kwim??

I don't know if maybe it's denial or just no real time to look at the issue, but I'm ok with my sections, although now just typing this I do get a feeling of "what if", so I guess it is more of a no time to look at it....that and we've had so many things happening since Yanic was born...between Evy, potty learning, trips home, dh's unhappiness at work and looking to move "home", the possibility of moving home and living with his parents for ?? months, and just the daily grind...I guess I haven't really dealt with it yet....on the other hand, I really believe that all things happen as they are suppose to, even if they don't make sense at the time, there is a reason...after all....all experiences make us who we are right now. and for the most part I like who I am (that would be the optimstic person in me) kwim??
I don't mean to down play anyone elses feelings at all! And I hope that I don't cause I do learn, and enjoy everyone on these boards and feel a sense of "belonging" with all of you in this thread especially, no matter where the thread is located.

Take care and talk soon,
Jen

 

[dlb]

The bottom line for me is that it hurts deeply when I see "v-bac" as a sub-forum, but not c-birth. I lived with condescending comments and attitudes regarding my births for years now, and the fact that somehow "finally doing it right" and "yes you can, yea you did" stories are considered deserving of a sub-forum, but c-births are not, and will risk being buried, is a continuation of that smug attitude.

But like I said, MDC can do what it wants. But I still wanted to express my pain. I wanted a v-bac so bad, even tried with a midwife at her home, and still ended up with a necessary transfer and then c-birth. If I could have, I would have changed things. I couldn't. But my births were still special, still an accomplishment, still births.

I know mdc can not be "all things to all people." But just a quick glance at this thread would show that we are a large segment of the birthing population, not just an obscure subset. And I would have to ask if somehow the politics behind being against intervention are being considered more important than our feelings.

It really hurts to feel like an outsider, because of something I couldn't change.

Sorry to vent, this is something I feel very strongly about, and have for nearly 16 years. It started when my first son was born, after a horrible, long labor during which he never even dropped, even after I did everything I could. My sil, who wasnt' there, who did not hear the comments from the hospital staff about how well I tolerated the labor, how very calm I was, that it was because I "just didn't relax enough." That kind of attitude is so prevalent in the natural parenting community, the very idea that anyone can birth naturally, if they only try. The smugness. The superiority. And the invalidation.

It just plain hurts, and I wanted to make that clear.

DeAnna

 

[Hikaru]

(((dlb)))
Ditto everything you said. Keep talking, we are here to support you.

Its-our-family wrote:

>>>>I willsay to Hikaru that I have had that thought of "of course you can VBAC!" But I'mmnot saying do it if you arent comfortable. To me it is like parenting. We have to make an educatated decision on what we do with our births as well as our parenting.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What bothers me about that kind of comment is that, realistically, maybe I can VBAC maybe I can't. I was NOT going to even
entertain the possibility of a cesarian the first time, yet I ended up with one. If I am not realistic this time, if I were set on a VBAC and had to have a cesarian again, I'd feel even more like a failure than I did the first time. I am not being negative, I am just accepting the fact that I'll do my best but ultimately the safety of
my baby is what matters most. It isn't a matter of "comfort", it is
a matter of knowing that even under the best conditions this is not something I can control 100%.

I think putting cesarian as a subforum would be a validation of our
experience. As I said before I am not leaving these boards no
matter what, because I just get so much out of being here.
But it would be really nice to be acknowledged and included.

As for moving the thread, Ladylee, I understand your point of view but I think we are more obvious and will reach more Mamas if we stay here. It's worth a bit of discomfort to me to let people know..."We're here, we needed cesarians, we're AP,
Get used to it!" KWIM?

BTW, just for the heck of it I searched Yahoo Groups under "cesarian" and got nada. It seems like Mothering is still the
best place for us to get support! There really do seem to be a lot of us here.

Hikaru

 

[MamaOui]

" It's worth a bit of discomfort to me to let people know..."We're here, we needed cesarians, we're AP,
Get used to it!" KWIM? "

:LOL

 

[MamaOui]

dlb, I had a beautiful labor with my c/b and when I mention that to most other women IRL, it's like they just sort of tune out. I will always remember those days of contractions and hours of pushing fondly, as I was surrounded with wonderful support and I felt like a goddess. And the end of those days resulted with the arrival of an amazing human being. Quite a contrast from my VBAC experience, which is a whole other story, but the end result was still an amazing human being.

 

[ladylee]

Agreed that more people will be able to find us here-staying in Birth and Beyond is fine with me. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.

Cynthia, I would also like to see some mention of Cesarean as a necessity in the forum heading.

I hope everyone shares their birth stories here!

Just wanted to mention-someone I know said something very helpful about the importance of taking ownership of one's birth-whether it be natural, medicated, or cesarean. And I think it's never too late to take ownership of our births and turn them into positive experiences.

 

[Missgrl]

Quote:

Originally posted by MamaOui ..... but the end result was still an amazing human being.

That's all that really matters

 

[its_our_family]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hikaru What bothers me about that kind of comment is that, realistically, maybe I can VBAC maybe I can't. I was NOT going to even entertain the possibility of a cesarian the first time, yet I ended up with one. If I am not realistic this time, if I were set on a VBAC and had to have a cesarian again, I'd feel even more like a failure than I did the first time. I am not being negative, I am just accepting the fact that I'll do my best but ultimately the safety of my baby is what matters most. It isn't a matter of "comfort", it is a matter of knowing that even under the best conditions this is not something I can control 100%. /B]

This is what I'm saying...sorry if it didn't seem that way. I've tried to get the "of course you can" attitude out of my head. I'm trying VBAC but am preparing myself for another c/b. I'm not sure how I'll feel though with another one.....

I have my birth story all typed I jsut have to move it over

 

[its_our_family]

here is my birth story...well, my sons birth story...but you know what I meant

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=89346

 

[TreeLove]

you guys rock! love this discussion