[kxsiven]

Doctors speaking anonymously to the BBC said overfeeding a child should be considered neglect in extreme cases:

"We're very lily livered about this as a society. I have seen an obese child taken away from parents return to a normal body weight in a few months."

"I've seen a 10-year-old who could only walk a few yards with a walking stick. Her diet of chips and high fat food could firmly be laid at the parents door. I believe they were killing her slowly. "

"Seeing a 10 year old with diabetes and high blood pressure. He is at risk of heart disease in his 20s - the family will not make changes "

"One 12-year-old boy came into hospital to be put on a diet. His family were caught smuggling in 1lb bars of chocolate for him. "

Obesity has been a factor in at least 20 child protection cases in the last year, the BBC has learned.

Some doctors now believe in extreme cases overfeeding a young child should be seen as a form of abuse or neglect.

Whole story;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6749037.stm

So. In these extreme cases - should officials step in if child's life and health is in danger?

 

[ewp11100]

I was an obese kid, not "I need a walking stick" verity but very over weight. This had absolutly nothing to do with what my parents feed me, or mostly what I ate for that matter. We had salads on table every night for dinner, water or milk to drink, and a garden in the summer. Yes we had desserts/snacks but I proably ate better food then other kids my age. With help from my doctor (the only time I've really liked doctors, lol) as an adult, we figured out I have medical issues. My parents were never told that, and I went to regular ped appointments. I was just the fat kid, even my parents made fun of me. Maybe we should offer advise to dr's about testing obese children for metobolic disorders. or advising parents to ask doctors about testing. I realize a lot of parents over feed their kids cr$p but that doesn't mean we should take all fat kids away from there parents.

 

[umsami]

On many incidences I disagree and think this has a lot to do with the obesity-panic that has suddenly become very popular. Awhile back, the CDC posted statistics that said that obesity caused 400,000 deaths per year in the United States. Well, two very respected statisticians in the scientific and public health field refuted those facts with a few journal articles that were universally acknowledged to be accurate. Know what?? The media remained silent. The Harvard Public School of Health even held a press conference to say that the articles were irresponsible (which is not how things are done in the scientific community.) Demonizing obesity, obese kids, and parents of obese kids is BIG business (no pun intended). In spite of the fact that were learning so much more about the mechanisms involved in hunger, satiety, and obesity. We're learning so much more about genetics and especially among morbidly obese young kids, there often is a genetic reason. A 4 year old or 6 year old isn't going to become super morbidly obese on their own. There are some really interesting studies where they've found leptin deficiencies and such... and just by giving these kids leptin shots, the go from being super morbidly obese to regular weight. In spite of the fact that there is not one study out there... not one... that shows that eating less and exercising more leads to LONG-TERM weight loss. There is not one study out there that shows ANY diet leads to Long-Term weight loss. Period. Short term? Six months?? Yeah. But if you go out to two years, nope.

All the behavior stuff?? You know... putting your fork down after you eat, chewing xyz times, smaller plates. Not one study has shown that these behavioral changes lead to long-term weight loss.

So when the "science" fails... the physicians and the public blame the obese individual or his/her parents. They must not have enough will power, etc. Yet they fail to realize that the beloved formula of weight loss is not absolute. There have been studies (in hospital....controlled environment) that show if you feed the exact same number of calories to a varying population, weight gain or loss will vary by as much as 20 pounds.

That if an obese person does lose weight, their body produces massive amounts of ghrelin (hunger hormone) to tell them they are starving in an effort to try and get them back to their "normal" weight. (One study showed a 25% increase in ghrelin production) Ignoring these signals would be as hard as somebody to ignore the urge to drink water when thirsty. It is believed that because some weight loss surgery affects ghrelin production is one of the reasons that weight loss surgery is the only thing that has shown to have lasting (5-10 years, at least 50% of excess weight loss) weight loss.

There's a great book out there called "Rethinking Thin" by a NYTimes Science writer that goes into all of the studies and science behind obesity. Very interesting.

If we assume that a child is overeating...and one takes the child away from his family... do they really think that will solve the problem? How will that help the child NOT to eat... especially out of loneliness, guilt, etc. It would, in my humble opinion, only make the situation a lot worse.

They're not talking about the kids who are 5-10 pounds overweight, they're talking about the massively obese kids. There's too much out there that shows that assuming that their obesity is strictly dietary related or behavior related is wrong... and so removing them would be as well.

 

[kxsiven]

More to the story;

Doctors say they are now seeing children as young as six months old in their obesity clinics.

They are concerned some parents are supersizing meal portions for very young children and have lost sight of what "normal" weight looks like.

( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6751991.stm )

but what about cases like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwMbJ...elated&search=

 

[No2Circ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewp11100 even my parents made fun of me.

Wow. How abusive of your parents. I'm so sorry.

 

[tboroson]

While I believe 98% of obese kids are probably not victims of neglect/abuse, I hate making absolute statements. The parents who were smuggling in the 1 lb. chocolate bars? There is something seriously wrong there. So, I think this should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and managed appropriately when it *is* the case.

 

[Marsupialmom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6751991.stm

Quote:

They told the BBC that in extreme cases overfeeding a young child should be seen as a form of abuse or neglect.

In some cases this is very true....then there is medical condition. It would be sad though if a child has a medical condition making them obese to be taken away from the family. It would be a sad way for the child to finally get diagnosed.

I am leary of using obesity as a reason to take a kid away from family but can see it be a reason to get involved in some cases. These would be more like cases that would also fall in the catagory also as medical neglect.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6749037.stm

Some doctors now believe in extreme cases overfeeding a young child should be seen as a form of abuse or neglect. I hope they stress extreme meaning rare, once in a while, et.

Quote:

One 12-year-old boy came into hospital to be put on a diet. His family were caught smuggling in 1lb bars of chocolate for him"

If this child was under medical care for diabetes would would be yeh parental neglect. Why not obesity (this is assuming his obesity fits the extreme catagory)?

 

[umsami]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kxsiven Doctors say they are now seeing children as young as six months old in their obesity clinics.

That is just whacked to me. Umm... 6 months... so the baby just finished breastfeeding (or started solids) and now s/he's obese??? That shows the obesity hysteria in my mind. And usually, if a child (and no, I don't mean an infant) is obese, the general consensus of most experts is to try to limit weight gain, rather than to have him/her lose weight... so that hopefully they "grow into" their weight. I can't see any respectable health professional suggesting that any 6 month old (or any infant/toddler) be put on any sort of restricted diet. That is just sick and wrong, IMHO, and could lead to a lot more problems. Instruct the parents to avoid/limit fast food, potato chips, sweets, etc... but that's just common sense. I really worry that some weight-obsessive individuals will read articles like this and will limit their infant's breastfeeding... or put their 18 month old on some strict diet.

As for the parents smuggling chocolate bars into the hospital, yes.. that is bizarre, but I highly doubt that is the norm, even among parents of overweight or obese kids.

 

[tireesix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami That is just whacked to me. Umm... 6 months... so the baby just finished breastfeeding (or started solids) and now s/he's obese??? That shows the obesity hysteria in my mind. And usually, if a child (and no, I don't mean an infant) is obese, the general consensus of most experts is to try to limit weight gain, rather than to have him/her lose weight... so that hopefully they "grow into" their weight. I can't see any respectable health professional suggesting that any 6 month old (or any infant/toddler) be put on any sort of restricted diet. That is just sick and wrong, IMHO, and could lead to a lot more problems. Instruct the parents to avoid/limit fast food, potato chips, sweets, etc... but that's just common sense. I really worry that some weight-obsessive individuals will read articles like this and will limit their infant's breastfeeding... or put their 18 month old on some strict diet. As for the parents smuggling chocolate bars into the hospital, yes.. that is bizarre, but I highly doubt that is the norm, even among parents of overweight or obese kids.

I have known mums giving their kids coca cola, chocolate, ice cream and crisps before they hit six months, add formula to it and those stupid yoghurts etc used to wean babies and its no wonder they become obese..........

 

[Storm Bride]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami As for the parents smuggling chocolate bars into the hospital, yes.. that is bizarre, but I highly doubt that is the norm, even among parents of overweight or obese kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tireesix I have known mums giving their kids coca cola, chocolate, ice cream and crisps before they hit six months, add formula to it and those stupid yoghurts etc used to wean babies and its no wonder they become obese..........

I think there's a big difference between ignorant parents thinking it's okay to feed their kids junk food, and parents actually sneaking 1lb. chocolate bars into the hospital where their child is trying to lose weight. The first are probably "just" ignorant, and education can probably remedy a great deal of the problem. The second are being...willfully blind, I guess is the way I'd put it.

 

[Benji'sMom]

I would say if the state wants to get involved, work WITH the parents first, do the medical work up, work on the healthy eating, etc. Then if you have parents who are feeding them the 1 lb. chocolate bars anyway, then evaluate that case to see if the parents are really physically harming the child.

I have a SIL with a kid who was really overweight from probably 3yo on up. He's a teenager now. The pedi always told her to feed him healthier but there was really no support. I guess SIL could be blamed for not sticking with it, and providing the junk. But if we really want to turn things around, let the state provide some on-going support because she really had none. It was just maybe one meeting with a dietitician or nutritionist, then she's left to totally change their lifestyle on her own. And I'm not sure she even knows how to cook anything, because MIL never really cooked.

 

[KentuckyDoulaMama]

I havent read all of the replies....

I think you can not mae a generalization here. Each child & family are different.

In my family we have raised/are raising 7 kiddos.
We eat mostly vegetarian, I almost never buy things like chips, pop, ice cream, ect....I try to make any treats as healthy as possible when we do have them.

We have two tall thin kids, two short thin kids and two avg height overweight kids, the other is pretty much "normal."

There is so much that comes into play in sitations like these. It drives me crazy that I am such a health food nut and yet I have two overweight kids. I am small framed and thin, dh is average build and thin except for a beer belly.

We could all do better to get more physical activity in, I am thin, but out of shape.

I guess I'm rambling, my point was you can't assume any reasons why a child may be struggling with weight. No one should assume that because a child is overweight, the parents are being negelectful.

On the other hand, I'm in the medical field and I do see so much ignorance in regards to parenting & nutrition. It sounds like a couple of the families had some major food issues.

My bro was the fattest infant/baby/toddler his ped had ever seen, the pics of him are amazing. Yet today he is a tall, very thin guy. So weird....

Also, it irks me to no end to see lots of very thin, healthy looking kids running around eating nothing but processed junk and fast food & drinking sodas and energy drinks while here I am reading & expanding my knowledge and cooking and buying all the right stuff yet I have two fat kids!

:

 

[Arduinna]

ITA with everything umsami posted

 

[kxsiven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tireesix I have known mums giving their kids coca cola, chocolate, ice cream and crisps before they hit six months, .

You got to be kidding!

:

 

[tireesix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kxsiven You got to be kidding! :

Unfortunutely not........ Apparently it is 'cute' to see them with ice cream around their mouths and smothered in chocolate.

 

[Marsupialmom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami That is just whacked to me. Umm... 6 months... so the baby just finished breastfeeding (or started solids) and now s/he's obese??? That shows the obesity hysteria in my mind. And usually, if a child (and no, I don't mean an infant) is obese, the general consensus of most experts is to try to limit weight gain, rather than to have him/her lose weight... so that hopefully they "grow into" their weight. I can't see any respectable health professional suggesting that any 6 month old (or any infant/toddler) be put on any sort of restricted diet. That is just sick and wrong, IMHO, and could lead to a lot more problems. Instruct the parents to avoid/limit fast food, potato chips, sweets, etc... but that's just common sense. I really worry that some weight-obsessive individuals will read articles like this and will limit their infant's breastfeeding... or put their 18 month old on some strict diet. As for the parents smuggling chocolate bars into the hospital, yes.. that is bizarre, but I highly doubt that is the norm, even among parents of overweight or obese kids.

I have to disagree about a ristricted diet for babies kind of........well it should be ristricted to whole nutrutious food. My daughter's friend that is diabetic was bottle feed and litterally off the charts at a year (when we met). I know she was taking 7-8 8 oz bottles of formula at a year and would only eat ice cream, chicken nuggets, fries. She was getting 2-3 bottles of formula plus whole cows milk at 2 years. She was long needing to be restricted from the crap and so much formula. Since being diagnose diabetic she has lost tons of weight because her diet has been restricted. The sweets are just treats, like they should have been all alone. She is 6 and finally on the charts.

I don't think the chocolate bar is abnormal....family can be the worse enabler of obesity.

 

[Calidris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tireesix I have known mums giving their kids coca cola, chocolate, ice cream and crisps before they hit six months, add formula to it and those stupid yoghurts etc used to wean babies and its no wonder they become obese..........

Yep, but I also know of some very chunky 6 month old totally breastfed babes. Like so many other things, it is a slippery slope once they start.

The child that is so obese he needs to walk with a cane? Some sort of intervention is clearly needed. the parents that smuggle 1lb chocolate bars to their child in hospital (anyone else think of Dudley Dursely here?) the parents obviously have some sort of problem themselves. But how long til some doctors are trying to put 6 month old EBF babies on diets (and then threatening with CPS or whatever like they might do for FFT)

 

[umsami]

BTW, here's an excerpt on the whole genetics and obesity thing
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/he...&ex=1181966400

Try bugmenot.com if you need a password.

Quote:

"The scientists summarized it in their paper: "The two major findings of this study were that there was a clear relation between the body-mass index of biologic parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that genetic influences are important determinants of body fatness; and that there was no relation between the body-mass index of adoptive parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that childhood family environment alone has little or no effect.""

Quote:

"The researchers concluded that 70 percent of the variation in peoples' weights may be accounted for by inheritance, a figure that means that weight is more strongly inherited than nearly any other condition, including mental illness, breast cancer or heart disease."

 

[kxsiven]

"The researchers concluded that 70 percent of the variation in peoples' weights may be accounted for by inheritance, a figure that means that weight is more strongly inherited than nearly any other condition, including mental illness, breast cancer or heart disease."

Is there some mutation happening in our genes because obesity is exploading in western countries(and in China)?

The fact that so many kisa are so verweight will cost lots of money to healthcare in 20 years.

All that because of genes? I find it hard to believe. Ofcourse genes have some effect but there is no way genes can explain the current situation.

 

[marybethorama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calidris Yep, but I also know of some very chunky 6 month old totally breastfed babes.

I knew a baby who was very chunky at 6 months. He had rolls of fat everywhere. By the time he was 1 yo he was slim and he still his 8 years later. It was just the way he grew.