[racheleuphoria]

Starting a new post for this discussion!

Posted by RachelEuphoria:

Thanks, DimitraDaisy. I enjoyed reading that Enki First Grade Readiness document (http://www.enkieducation.org/html/ma...b-sample-b.pdf) and forwarded it to another homeschooling-in-the-future friend. We had planned to use Christopherus, but now I'm thinking I'd like to sample Enki. I have also requested Your Child's Growing Mind from the library. Thanks for the recommendation!

My DD's birthday is Nov 6, and I was thinking of starting 1st grade at 5, almost 6. I know that's considered way too early by Waldorf standards, but it's hard to resist when she's already wanting to write letters and learn to read. Maybe that book will help me understand/decide to wait.

Oh, how I wish I could have her evaluated by a Waldorf teacher. It would be nice to have someone who actually knows her to tell me to wait until she's 6, almost 7. Sigh...

Posted by DimitraDaisy:

Aaah. First Grade readiness is such a big topic. Perhaps we can start another thread about this. I can't tell you to wait until she's almost 7, but I tell you that first grade isn't about learning to read and write. You may want to do that, in fact you may do that, and still need to be in Kindergarten in every other way.

What are your reasons for not wanting to wait? What are your reasons for wanting to wait? And do you have to begin your year in September? You could start in March, with the spring Equinox, and she would be six and four months then. A lot of Enki parents seem to do this. And I have even heard of a Waldorf school who experimented with an "autumn Class 1" and a "winter Class 1". And they were joined for Class 2, apparently! I have to say I don't quite see how this would work, but with homeschooling you have quite a lot of flexibility, so why not?

Posted by BendingBirch:

RachelEuphoria,
I can only offer my support to you as a Waldorf homeschooling mother who has been through the Kindy years and now almost done with First. There is a whole lot more to First Grade than learning the letters and starting to read. If you look at Eugene Scwartz's website www.millenialchild.com he argues there are actually more sensitive windows for math and the need for form drawing once a child approaches 6 and a half or 7 than this window that is going to close for reading.

My child did teach herself to read; first grade has still benefitted her in so many ways. What I have found with small children who can read is that 1-it may replace them wanting to get into their bodies, the hallmark of an under 7 child and you have to really set the tone in this area 2- it sets them on a path where perhaps reading and even foreign languages are easier, but it does not negate the fairy tale stories they need to hear, and there are plenty of ways to incorporate your homeschooling reader into Waldorf first grade 3- just because they like to read does not mean they like to write; Steiner felt all reading should come from writing first. My daughter likes to creatively write her own poems, but as far as her Main Lesson Book goes I would say her writing and wanting to copy sentences and such (without moaning and groaing) probably is close to any other Waldorf first or second grader despite the fact she can read very well and will write longer things on her own.
4- Just because a child can read early does not mean there is much that is appropriate to read for their age. Much of the meatier chapter books do not come for a 7 year old; these books are for a older crowd with protagonists that go through trials and tribulations whom the child can identify with; but a seven year is still very much not ready for that type of identification. 5 - Waldorf moves and teaches through movement, the artistic, and is very hands-on and in our society we have a view of education being mainly reading and writing, which is not even the most effective way to learn things for certain age groups.

What I would suggest is actually reading Steiner himself. I feel "Kingdom of Childhood" "Education of the Child" and even the longer "Soul Economy" are accessible and understandable.

To me, it boils down to this: a child can learn all sorts of things within the first seven years, but SHOULD they? That is the question every parent must decide for themselves. If you believe in the seven year cycles, then you have no problem waiting, you know? And your reading under 7 year old, well, they taught themselves. Children like that suddenly can just read and read fluently and well, my reader is also one of those kids who can just pick up foreign languages as well. She is language oriented. The thing there is to actually protect them from burning out, to find them things that are appropriate, to really focus on the oral storytelling and other things they may be missing or that may be harder for them.

If anything, Waldorf education looks at the WHOLE child. I set goals in about ten different areas, and look at many different things for our educational year. My next child may not read as early as my first, temperament plays into it somewhat, I think gender can as well. The point is though, that the seven year cycles are still the guiding force for the decisions we make as teachers and parents in those first seven years.

Hope that helps a bit, it is just my perspective. Please take what resonates with you and for your family.

 

[racheleuphoria]

DimitraDaisy said "but I tell you that first grade isn't about learning to read and write. You may want to do that, in fact you may do that, and still need to be in Kindergarten in every other way."

I find this statement very helpful. I would really, really like to learn more about what is supposed to happen in Kindergarten. I don't mean the activities. From what I've read, we're encouraged to do more of what we're already doing (drawing, painting, storytelling, playing outside, relishing the seasons, etc.). But, what is happening in her during kindergarten that prepares her for first grade? And, I mean prepares her holistically, not just to read, write or do math.

DimitraDaisy said, "What are your reasons for not wanting to wait? What are your reasons for wanting to wait? And do you have to begin your year in September? "

Reasons for wanting to start 1st grade early: I look forward to teaching! She is a verbal child and repeatedly expresses desire to learn to read. She already writes (I taught this to her before I learned about Waldorf); just doesn't know how to spell. Society/Parents/Friends feel like I'd be holding her back by not nurturing these interests. The fact that I graduated high school at age 16 with honors may play in here too, though somewhat subconsciously? Her birthday is oddly placed (Nov). If we wait until the following year, she'll be almost 7. I have considered starting her in Jan or March, but it'll throw off the seasonal aspects of the curriculum. It'd take extra work to fix that, but perhaps that's the right choice.

Concerns with starting 1st grade early: What is she missing out on? What other areas (besides reading or writing) should we be investing time in? Is she mature enough for the stories, for the sustained work, for the math?

Bending Birch said about her daughter, "She is language oriented. The thing there is to actually protect them from burning out, to find them things that are appropriate, to really focus on the oral storytelling and other things they may be missing or that may be harder for them."

My daughter (4 and 1/2) is language-oriented too. She'd like me to read to her all day long (but we don't). When I write poems on our chalkboard she memorizes them immediately with gusto and pretends to be reading them. I originally started writing them for MY reference. She memorized this in about 10 minutes (I taught it to her with hand motions too):

My lady Spring is dressed in green.
She wears a primrose crown.
And little baby buds and twigs are clinging to her gown.
The sun shines if she laughs at all.
But if she weeps, the raindrops fall.

She loves to recite it and the other poems she's learned to anyone who will listen.

I wonder how I can tell if she's "in her body" enough or what things are "harder for her" so that I could focus on them. I guess the things that are on a conventional checklist are easy to cross off. For being in her body, she does skip, balance, jump from logs to logs, free dance to daddy's guitar music, enjoys one imaginative ballet class per week, copy dances that big kids do at our church's children's program, etc.

One thing that's more challenging to her is coloring. She's only just drawn her first attempt at a human figure and doesn't easily come up with drawing ideas or shapes. We color together regularly... It's just that I'd like more "goals" for improvement or understanding of areas of growth to devote 2+ more years to Kindergarten.

Help me to understand

 

[DimitraDaisy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria I would really, really like to learn more about what is supposed to happen in Kindergarten. I don't mean the activities. From what I've read, we're encouraged to do more of what we're already doing (drawing, painting, storytelling, playing outside, relishing the seasons, etc.). But, what is happening in her during kindergarten that prepares her for first grade? And, I mean prepares her holistically, not just to read, write or do math.

That is a very good question! As I have said a lot of times, I am not a kindergarten teacher, and I have to say I didn't quite know how to answer at first. So I did a bit of reading, partly through some Enki guides, and one of the things I found is this:

Quote:

"First of all, in order to become an effective learner, he must have the neurological integration used in later academic skills. Then he must be able to work cooperatively in the group under the teacher's direction, without becoming wild, withdrawn, or controlling. Next he must be able to self-direct, working / playing constructively both alone and with his peers, with minimal adult guidance, not only birthing new ideas, but bringing creations and undertakings through to completion. Finally, he must be able to to relax enough to take in new content with interest, allowing himself to fully enter the rich variety experiences offered in the [Enki] kindergarten program."

Here http://www.whywaldorfworks.org/11_Ef...eReadiness.doc is a long list of first grade readiness signs, which goes beyond the usual "skips, can reach over head to touch ear" kind of thing. Some of it is a little too far-fetched or perhaps just coated in anthro-terms, but it's pretty exhaustive.

This extract (from http://www.jaxwaldorf.org/kindergarten.htm)

Quote:

One day, as she was turning six, she set a scene as usual, but then closed her eyes and played it all in her mind. I have seen six year olds in my kindergarten classes go through this same transition when they build their houses but cease to take any toys into them. They are now able to create everything they need in their mind's eye, so to speak. It is quite a contrast to four and five year olds, who take as much as they can into their houses, leaving scarcely enough room in which to move. When such a stage has been reached, one feels the child is ready for studying the academic subjects which demand a capacity to hold an image of a letter or a number and call it up at will. Such a feat of memory is simply not possible for the younger child. He may compensate by developing little aids to jog his memory, but this is not the same as having a true readiness for the activity.

talks about something kindergarten teachers talk about, the emergence of memory and goal setting. So children start saying things like "today I build a house with Annie and tomorrow we are going to go back and finish it"; and then they do. It amazes me that we attempt to teach children before this kind of thinking emerges. It amazes me even more that children, obviously, are able to learn before this thinking emerges! It does make me think that Jane Healy is probably right though and younger children do learn with different parts of their brain.

Finally, here's a quote from an article it today's Independent [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...-1665355.html] that someone sent me a link to -- just for the shake of the coincidence!

Quote:

"Claire Jagger, a primary teacher in Cornwall, said: "I have taught in Finland, Lapland and Russia and have seen firsthand the way in which their seven-year-olds start school ready to learn. "They are emotionally ready, socially able, physically content and mature enough to deal with the curriculum in school, bringing good solid life experience and a thirst for learning."

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria Reasons for wanting to start 1st grade early: I look forward to teaching! She is a verbal child and repeatedly expresses desire to learn to read. She already writes (I taught this to her before I learned about Waldorf); just doesn't know how to spell. Society/Parents/Friends feel like I'd be holding her back by not nurturing these interests. The fact that I graduated high school at age 16 with honors may play in here too, though somewhat subconsciously?

In a way, none of these reasons have to do with your daughter! Apart from the fact that she expresses a desire to learn to read, that is. And it's not a given that a child needs what a child wants. It's up to you to figure it out. As you are, obviously, trying to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria Her birthday is oddly placed (Nov). If we wait until the following year, she'll be almost 7.

For a start, nearly seven is not a problem. In my class there was a child that was seven already at the beginning of the year; there's also a little girl who turned seven in December. She's a genius. She doesn't miss a thing, no connection goes unnoticed, she only needs to hear something once to get it, she memorises long poems on day two (and thereafter corrects me if I get it wrong), she can use words like 'sarcastic' and 'tedious' perfectly appropriately and unselfconsciously. I could go on and on. She was not harmed by waiting until seven in the slightest. She keeps informing me that she loves school because she loves learning. Of course this is only an example, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria I have considered starting her in Jan or March, but it'll throw off the seasonal aspects of the curriculum. It'd take extra work to fix that, but perhaps that's the right choice.

I don't know if it is that difficult; I don't know if you have a specific curriculum in mind, but it doesn't seem too hard to do to me. You could take a normal summer break, just do a few months of Grade 1 either side of it. You could even do 3/4s of Grade 1, then 3/4s of Grade 2 and start Grade 3 "normally", in September. You could even do half of Grade 1, and, if your daughter seems ready, move on to Grade 2 in September. All this sounds very complicated, but I just want to tell you that there are options!

Also, I was under the impression that your daughter was already 5 and you were thinking about what to do in September... It seems that's she's only 4 still, so I'd suggest you give yourself a break and sleep on this question for another year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria Concerns with starting 1st grade early: What is she missing out on? What other areas (besides reading or writing) should we be investing time in? Is she mature enough for the stories, for the sustained work, for the math?

I think these are very good concerns, they're exactly what I was trying to say! She needs to be ready for form-drawing (which is difficult as I said), for maths (all four processes), for needle knitting, for long recalls, for being able to re-create a story in art... Grade 1 done properly is hard work, and not an extension of Kindergarten with academics! A child may well manage this earlier that six and a half or seven, but will they manage them competently and confidently? Will they be nourished by them? As the teacher in the Independent article says, waiting until children are ready really works: you can go really fast once you begin, and you can build good working habits since there is little struggle involved.

I seem to have written an essay again

I need to keep off this board if I am ever to get my actual, real essays done...

But anyway, I hope this helps. I didn't mean to lecture you, by the way. I'm just trying to find the answers to your questions.

 

[racheleuphoria]

DimitraDaisy,

That was wonderful, exactly what I needed to hear. I'm going to save all this to read over and over again when I get self-conscious about waiting on 1st grade. You were right about most of the reasons for not wanting to wait not actually having to do with Aria. I especially love the concept that she may enjoy learning/school more and be more nourished by 1st grade if we wait to start. There is nothing wrong with graduating high school at 19. The fact that I graduated at 16 actually put me in some situations that I wasn't ready for, emotionally, as a matter of fact.

It seems like it is so much easier to delay academics in other countries. Here in the US, my very respectful family is already puzzled that I removed the handwriting practice books and stopped the phonics reading program, both of which I initiated when she was 3-almost-4. Not that I decide based on what they think, it just get's disorienting.

I spent quite a bit of time last night reading about Enki (including the portion you quoted). Thanks for pointing out that resource. I'm going to keep looking into it. Maybe their Kindergarten program will help me figure out what to do with ourselves for two more years.

Rachel

 

[PrincessDoll]

I really am enjoying reading through the enki pdf file. I've never read too much into Enki but I must say my interest in now piqued. I'm curious now why so many people who like Waldorf like Enki curriculum.

 

[melamama]

Hi, I haven't been on the boards for a while but was browsing and noticed your post.
I have a third grader who I hs'd with Enki and Christopherus. (I used Enki mostly and then rounded out with Christopherus).
I started 1st with my dd when she was 6 (Feb. birthday). We then moved during 2nd grade and now she goes to a W. school. She is one of the youngest in her class. There is a real difference between the ones who started 1st grade at 6 and those who started closer to 7. My dd doesn't struggle in school now; and was one of those 5yos who really wanted to write letters, wanted to read, etc. She was very verbal and my dh was pushing to start her on 1st g. material.
She would have benefitted from me waiting. There is so much to holistic schooling then academic readiness. Kindergarten is about getting them into their bodies, really grounding them in the work of the world. In our American society we buy too much into more earlier is better. There is SO much to do with a kindergartener and I'm not talking about readiness activities or even working on their drawing.
Movement, simple watercolor painting, finger games, songs, housework, walking, outdoor play, nature activities.

I have a just turned 6 ds who will do another year of K in Sept. and start 1st when he is 7.

As someone who started out more Waldorf, then found Enki and embraced it, and now sends their kids to a Waldorf school I'll tell you why I liked Enki--it's Waldorf-y without the anthroposophy (and I loved the Buddhist influence), and Enki satisfied my dh's more Western academic leanings (the skill building, etc).

 

[racheleuphoria]

Melamama,

Thanks for your post. Have you considered buying the Enki Kindergarten materials or have you already? How helpful have they been over above the usual waldorf resource books like Christopherus' Joyful Movement and A Child's Seasonal Treasury, etc.?

Rachel

 

[melamama]

I have the Enki kindy materials.
I haven't looked at them lately, but I remember what was most important about them for me was the way I could use them for more earth based/pagan type celebrations instead of the more christian based W. festivals. I really felt like the Enki devoted more time to teacher re-energizing and that was also important to me.
I love all of the Christopherus materials!
I think I used All Year Round, A Child's Year, and Circle Round more than A Child's Seasonal Treasury though.

 

[bendingbirch]

Around here, the Waldorf schools take children for first grade at ages 6 and a half or seven; I think many times the issue for girls who are more "academically" oriented do not come up until later with the social/emotional maturity of issues in middle school and high school. I have one friends whose child did start first grade rather early, had done well academically, but has been very out of sync socially with her peers. And because Waldorf is so much more than just academics, they really do need that longer attention span, more fine motor skills and concentration for knitting, modeling, drawing, painting and all those things.

Waldorf Kindergarten, at least from my homeschooling perspective, is more about the MOTHER sharpening her skills for what you will need - your own skills in wet on wet painting, storytelling, modeling, music. It is about establishing a strong rhythm of inbreath and outbreath to your day. It is about outside time and learning the flora and fauna of your area. It is about figuring out your own relationship to the festivals and how to start bringing them at home.

In the Waldorf Kindergarten, homeschool and at school, the children DO learn "academic" concepts - colors through seasonal changes and circle time verses and songs, numbers, physics through building outside with logs and other natural materials, memorization of verses and songs that is the foundation for later writing and reading, fingerknitting and other arts and crafts to develop hand eye coordination and fine motor skills. They are learning all the time, and even doing no direct "academic" work. My daughter met all the public school standards for Kindergarten in our area with no focus on academic work at all....Waldorf Kindergarten is carefully planned to provide the sensory and gross motor experiences the child needs, the protection of the senses, the establishment of rhythm for healthy development. The Kindergarten does progress as well, the six year old has more complex projects and stories than the 4 year olds in the class, but it is still a mixed group in a school environment.

Again, you can look at my blog (www.theparentingpassageway.com) and under "Waldorf Kindergarten" or "Children Under Age 7" I have many, many posts that address this. Other places to start would be to read Steiner himself, and there are several good books that address the Kindergarten age "You Are Your Child's First Teacher", "Heaven on Earth" and "Beyond the Rainbow Bridge" all come to mind. Lots of mainstream works, such as the books by the Gesell Institute,also support much of what Waldorf does in the Kindergarten for even the 6 year old!

This month a Waldorf Kindergarten most likely would be focused around celebrations of Passover or Easter and Spring. Circle and verses would pertain to these seasonal changes, here we are focusing on verses to do with gardening, doing gardening and Easter crafts, and storytelling as related to Easter or Spring themes. Every day has an activity, whether that is baking, wet on wet painting, crafts or woodworking, gardening, housekeeping. Keep asking questions, but I have a feeling some of this reading will help you figure out what you need for the Kindergarten Years.
If you are looking for more of an overview of curriculum throughout the first eight grades to see how Kindy fits in, you could try "The Waldorf Parenting Handbook", or "Waldorf Education: A Family Guide" or for more specific to homeschooling, Donna Simmons' Kindergarten works and Curriculum Overview. Her website (Christopherus) also has many introductory articles to Waldorf there as do many other websites.
Hoep that helps,

 

[Angierae]

This is a wonderful thread. I know I will be coming back to it for refreshers. Thanks you for all the info and links.

To the OP I wanted to say that we do an off season schedule, based on my child's age. (I wanted my child's birthday to be in Nov., its so hard to find the right fit for each child.

) It wasn't too hard to adjust the seasons, I remember doing that as a child in the southern hemisphere. But I don't use a curriculum, so its really just changing my idea of new grades starting in the fall. Also, we don't really "do school", so our schedule is loose. I introduce things 2 or 3 times a week, and we go all year round with no summer break. I don't see a reason to break from what is essentially a lifestyle.

My DD1 has a late summer birthday. In our public school, she would have started first grade 2 weeks after turning 6. In our Waldorf school she would have waited until after she turned 7. I felt like she was ready to start 1st grade after she was 6.5. It may seem nit picky, but I see both of my girls making big changes at their half birthdays. This child is mature emotionally and intellectually, but slightly immature physically. Her body is too mature and her brain can't quite control it yet. She is very tall for her age, lost teeth early, has huge feet she trips over, is scared of falling from her height, etc. It looks like she has to grow into herself, if you know what I mean.

One of the things I love bout hsing is that I can do what I like, so we started 1st grade in March 08, when she was just past the 6.5 mark. She taught herself to read in February 08, while we were babymooning and she was bored and snowed in. Then we started working on knitting and some saints. Kept up our usual seasonal festivals and crafts. Talked more about numbers, etc. Added a few things to our weekly rhythm. Nothing too academic, but it seemed to fit with first grade.

This year, I think we will start 2nd grade in June. We are finishing up looking at 1st grade concepts, as we went kind of slow with a new baby. Her physical side seems to have caught up, and the emotions are going to the 2nd grade level. I think we may use the same schedule with DD2. She will be 5 in May, and I think we will start Kindergarten next spring when I imagine DD1 moving into the 3rd grade concepts. We like it this way! Spring is the time of new beginnings in so many ways. We usually have a lot of down time in the winter with holidays and traveling, and I have more time to plan in the winter when we are in the house. Good Luck!

 

[racheleuphoria]

Angierae,

Thank-you for your post. It is encouraging to hear how you've made your "grade" schedule your own as a homeschooler. It's true that spring is a time of new beginnings. What an uplifting way of looking at it.

Do you think you will continue working without a curriculum? Just curious

Rachel

 

[Angierae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by racheleuphoria Do you think you will continue working without a curriculum? Just curious

I'm not really sure what qualifies as a curriculum. I doubt I will work off a prepackaged one, at least while my children are young. (When they are older, I imagine them choosing a curriculum if they want to.) Currently, I do make a "plan." I research stories I want to tell them, crafts to work on, what day we should, knit, paint, bake, etc. I have verses and props ready for circle time. I own books on form drawing and math and fables, etc, and I get ideas for activities from them. So far, waldorf homeschooling has been pretty close to unschooling for us. The girls ask for circle time on most days, but some days they do not want to do it. They always want to do art, but sometimes only for 5 minutes. Yesterday all they did is play "robin hood" in the backyard. Some days Anna reads or knits for a large part of the day. But as they get older, I think academics may become a stronger pursuit, but so far we are just figuring it out as we go along!

 

[bendingbirch]

I also write my own curriculum, I write starting now for the fall so it is open and go by then when we start.
Also, I like the point of being able to start when your child is six and a half or seven, I know several mothers that start a grade in January, do half the grade and take the summer off and then come back in the fall and finish the second half of the grade then.
These are the wonderful things about homeschooling!