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I've been pouring over the news from the last hour or so. Cho mailed a package to NBC after he shot the first two victims, and shortly before he open fired in the classrooms.<br><br>
I can't shake the feeling that he was horribly bullied and abused during childhood.<br><br>
However, I was horribly bullied and abused by peers in the school system, and I certainly didn't turn into someone who would kill other people.<br><br>
I guess I am rambling on about how I can empathize with the rage, the empty aches and horrendous inner pain, and perceived isolation from the rest of the world.<br><br>
I am NOT justifying what he did.<br><br>
Maybe I'm just trying to say that if we could stop the bullies, we could prevent tragedies such as this..?<br><br>
The bullying factor is one BIG reason we're homeschooling, by the way. Avoidance of violence is another...they are flip sides of the same coin, IMO.
 

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He obviously suffered from mental illness. Which would make him an excellent target for bullying and at the same time, less able to deal with it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> We don't know that he was bullied but it is entirely likely.
 

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We don't know if he was bullied. From what I've read, at least at the college, people tried to befriend him and reach out to him. He refused and ignored most overtures.<br><br>
I was viciously bullied as a kid, and it is one of the main reasons I homeschool.
 

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You bring up a thought provoking idea: are bullies intrinsically bullies (straight out of the womb), or are they <i>made</i> into bullies?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mama in the forest</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7890981"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You bring up a thought provoking idea: are bullies intrinsically bullies (straight out of the womb), or are they <i>made</i> into bullies?</div>
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IMO, bullies are made. They don't have enough adult guidance/supervision in their younger years, and they lose empathy for others as they grow.<br><br>
Those who are bullied can then turn into criminals...all that pent up anger, repressed hurt feelings, etc.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>shaywyn</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7890823"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He obviously suffered from mental illness.</div>
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Mental illness *can* cause this type of behavior. A friend of mine took her life last week. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bawling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bawl"> However, these types of violent acts tell us a couple of things about mental illness. First off, More education needs to be conveyed about mental illness to the general public, and more specifically in educational settings. People need to understand how to identify possible mental illness, and get help. There are numerous options available to mentally ill people, there families, and the general public. If one day people can speak of mental illness without a stigma attached; I think we could make serious headway on issues like this in our society.<br><br>
P.S. Mentally ill people who are undergoing treatment are no more violent than the general public.
 

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The bullying is a huge factor for me in homeschooling, too. I was a typical, average kid in school and was also bullied horribly in high school to the point of serious depression.<br><br>
Just a couple of things..<br><br>
A bully is someone in search of power. Nobody is born a bully. It is a defensive reaction to some way in which they have not had their needs met properly in childhood.<br><br>
The twin girls that bullied me were from a very troubled and neglectful background. They were pretty powerless in their home life and also not doing particularly well in school life; they took it out on me and others in order to gain a sense of control and power.
 

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i think cho was bullied long before college, and by the sound of his video and the way he words it, he was sexually abused and sodomised. His writings in class were a cry for help, not to be racisit, because I'm not, but I know from knowing quite a few korean familys, that its hard enough for the females to admit a rape to their families because of the shame, let alone being a male having it done, and its just my theory but from the way cho worded things, he had it done repeatedly, by rich males. He was a severly distirbed individual, and I'm not giving him excuses, but i feel that his crys for help were glossed over.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>muse</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7892735"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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I am also very wary when people instantly connect mental illness with violent behavior.</div>
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I am not instantly connecting his violent act with being mentally ill. His video and written ramblings and the recounts of his day to day interactions are pretty indicative of a deep mental illness. I have a long background in mental health, including quite a few years working in an acute adult inpatient unit of a psychiatric hospital. However, I am not a doctor.<br><br>
I do understand your position. The vast majority of persons who suffer a mental illness are not violent. And even those with paranoid or violent delusions that could lead to violence, can usually be helped with proper treatment and medication. This is just so sad all the way around. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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Unless he was faking it for the camera, he comes across as being completely delusional. For all we know he was a fullblown schizophrenic. Unless I hear third party accounts of his being bullied, I won't know whether to believe he was bullied or not. I have a relative who is schizophrenic and he is constantly accusing other people of mistreating him and conspiring against him (even me!) when it is total delusion on his part.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>meowee</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7893664"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Unless he was faking it for the camera, he comes across as being completely delusional. For all we know he was a fullblown schizophrenic. Unless I hear third party accounts of his being bullied, I won't know whether to believe he was bullied or not. I have a relative who is schizophrenic and he is constantly accusing other people of mistreating him and conspiring against him (even me!) when it is total delusion on his part.</div>
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This is a good point. A colleague of my husband is schizophrenic. I should have thought of that. The man we know is a fun, gregarious, warm, loving father....but when he has his "episodes," he turns into a quiet, paranoid person who "acts out" by posting delusional ramblings all over the workplace.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RedWine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7893859"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This is a good point. A colleague of my husband is schizophrenic. I should have thought of that. The man we know is a fun, gregarious, warm, loving father....but when he has his "episodes," he turns into a quiet, paranoid person who "acts out" by posting delusional ramblings all over the workplace.</div>
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It's the same with my relative-- he is the sweetest, most caring, gentlest soul you could meet-- when he is lucid. When he has a psychotic break he accuses and suspects everyone around him of the most outrageous things and is often very cruel in his accusations. It's heartbreaking.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RedWine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7891185"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">IMO, bullies are made. They don't have enough adult guidance/supervision in their younger years, and they lose empathy for others as they grow.<br><br>
Those who are bullied can then turn into criminals...all that pent up anger, repressed hurt feelings, etc.</div>
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<br>
I agree.
 

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I do think that Cho was mentally ill. I am not really sure about his home life and whether or not he was bullied in school.<br><br><br>
I've been following an interesting thread on another board, in which many posters (including me) have shared how they were bullied (not necessarily physically, but also emotionally) by rich, popular kids that were often looked upon highly by most adults, but who can be very vicious when adults aren't listening.<br><br>
This is NOT an excuse for the bullied to go on some rampage. It is hard to express in words. But, we as parents and teachers and mentors need to be aware that bullies come in many forms.<br><br>
I wonder if Cho was treated as an outcast at all because he was Asian, and/or b/c his family was not wealthy? I heard that his parents worked at a dry cleaners; I also heard that his sister graduated from Princeton and has a very good job.<br><br>
I've just seen and heard so many cases of rich, popular, entitled kids being racist, classist, etc. and turning their noses up at everyone who doesn't fit their little mold.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mama_kass</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7891238"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First off, More education needs to be conveyed about mental illness to the general public, and more specifically in educational settings. People need to understand how to identify possible mental illness, and get help.</div>
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But people HAD indentified him as troubled and reported him, yet no action was taken.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>elizam</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I wonder if Cho was treated as an outcast at all because he was Asian, and/or b/c his family was not wealthy?</div>
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Everybody has crap happen to them in life. We get a choice what to do with it. Do we want to use it to become stronger people, or do we want to use it to destroy?
 

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I don't know if he had been bullied, but I think he was a bully. Taking pictures of women's lower bodies in class with a cell phone? Sending stalking emails? Writing terrifying screenplays for other students to read?<br><br>
Years ago, I met Nikki Giovanni when I worked for Ohio State. She didn't strike me as a weak or judgmental person. She described him as "mean" and said if he wasn't removed from her class she would leave Virginia Tech.<br><br>
Bully. A mentally ill bully. But a bully.
 

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Oh no... he was possibly autistic. He was diagnosed with autism as achild according to an aunt:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/vtech.shooting/index.html?section=cnn_latest" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/vte...ion=cnn_latest</a><br><br>
"Oh no" because there is already so much bad press about autistics.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>chfriend</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7896145"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't know if he had been bullied, but I think he was a bully. Taking pictures of women's lower bodies in class with a cell phone? Sending stalking emails? Writing terrifying screenplays for other students to read?<br><br>
Years ago, I met Nikki Giovanni when I worked for Ohio State. She didn't strike me as a weak or judgmental person. She described him as "mean" and said if he wasn't removed from her class she would leave Virginia Tech.<br><br>
Bully. A mentally ill bully. But a bully.</div>
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I agree with you. In no way am I trying to justify his actions by my musings. Just trying to figure out if society as a whole can theoretically keep someone from turning into a person who does such things.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Linda on the move</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7896068"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Everybody has crap happen to them in life. We get a choice what to do with it. Do we want to use it to become stronger people, or do we want to use it to destroy?</div>
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I'm not quite sure I agree with you. My husband's colleague probably doesn't feel he has a choice when he starts to feel that everyone's after him. He posts his ramblings to keep people from hurting him (so he says).
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>elizam</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7895587"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I've been following an interesting thread on another board, in which many posters (including me) have shared how they were bullied (not necessarily physically, but also emotionally) by rich, popular kids that were often looked upon highly by most adults, but who can be very vicious when adults aren't listening.<br><br>
This is NOT an excuse for the bullied to go on some rampage. It is hard to express in words. But, we as parents and teachers and mentors need to be aware that bullies come in many forms.<br><br>
I wonder if Cho was treated as an outcast at all because he was Asian, and/or b/c his family was not wealthy? I heard that his parents worked at a dry cleaners; I also heard that his sister graduated from Princeton and has a very good job.<br><br>
I've just seen and heard so many cases of rich, popular, entitled kids being racist, classist, etc. and turning their noses up at everyone who doesn't fit their little mold.</div>
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You can't assume that his manifesto accurately describes the way other people treated him, though. Psychopaths and (people with other personality disorders) commonly distort social experiences through a pathological lens. For example, they commonly believe that they deserve special treatment and exaggerated respect, thinking that the people around them should recognize their obvious superiority, or that they should have access to the best of everything without having to work for it. From that worldview, other people's normal, ordinary behavior becomes cause for resentment.<br><br>
It's like the Columbine killers, Harris and Klebold. Initial portrayals depicted them as poor, stepped-on bullying victims who finally snapped when they couldn't take any more abuse. Later, a different picture emerged: they went around school giving the Nazi salute, talking about how much they admired Hitler, and denigrating minorities. The video they made before the shooting showed them to be obsessed with violence and excited about how famous they would be.<br><br>
It's very easy for those of us who felt bullied or rejected as kids to identify with anyone who presents themselves as a victim of social meanness. But some people are socially rejected for excellent reasons. If you had a teenager, would you want him or her to be friends with someone like this - someone obsessed with violence, overflowing with resentment, unfriendly, inclined to push too far when turned down romantically? Can you really blame his fellow students for keeping their distance from him?
 
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