[myniyer]

I just get so sad when I read posts (not on this forum) like "Ferberize your baby b/c rocking, holding and cosleeping 24/7 just isn't feasible" and how often I hear from people IRL "I used CIO and it was hard but I don't regret it, I never ever thought I would be leaving my baby to cry but there just wasn't any other way." I have had people look me in the eye defiantly and say "Every family is different and this is what works for us" like they are expecting me to argue, when I never said word one to challenge their decision in any way. It's almost as if they feel guilty (I'm sure somewhere inside they do) and are trying to justify themselves to me.

I know parenting is hard. Believe me, I know! We had our own little version of hell thanks to an undiagnosed allergy with DD and I had many many days and nights trying in vain to soothe an inconsolable child. I almost got to the breaking point so many times... but I never ever EVER let her cry alone!!!

I just wonder how on earth a momma could get so disconnected from her own baby and ignore her own mothering instincts to such an extent as to leave that poor baby to cry alone in another room and to tell themselves and the rest of the world that that was perfectly okay.

So how on earth does it happen? Am I just more devoted to my child than these other people? That doesn't seem possible, I love her so fiercely, but don't other mommas love their babies too?

 

[Pukka]

Quote:

and ignore her own mothering instincts to such an extent as to leave that poor baby to cry alone in another room

I knew a woman who let her ds's CIO and thought nothing of it. I don't believe she really had any mothering instincts. She always acted like her babies were such a bother. When her oldest was 2 they moved him to his "big boy room" (his bedroom) and out of the nursery to make way for baby #2. I remember her telling me, like she was miffed, "I thought when he had his own room he'd just play in there and leave me alone."

I said, "He's TWO! He wants to play w/ YOU!" She acted like the thought never occurred to her.

Some people just don't have it in them. I think she was one of them. She had babies because that was the next logical step in her life, ya know? She went to college, got married, bought a house - next step was to have kids, so that's what she did. I don't think she really ever wanted them.

Not to say that is how everyone who does CIO is like that. I'm just giving you one example.

 

[tash]

I couldn't agree more and I ask myself the same questions all the time. I got an email from a friend who just says she's at her wits end because her baby is up every 3 hours and she's not getting any sleep and she's going to try the ferber method because she just can't take it anymore.

This makes me SO sad. I try not to judge, but it's becoming increasingly difficult. I told her that my DD sleeps really well and we co-sleep, but of course-people (including her) think I'm the weirdo.

I don't get it. I don't know how people can let their children cry alone. There are moments when DD cries uncontrollably and I'm doing everything I can to make sure she's okay. Most of al, I'm holding and loving her. I can't imagine leaving her in a her crib all alone to cry and cry until she becomes exhausted. I just think, I'm her mother and it's my job to nurture and comfort her-whether that means nursing all night, holding her 24/7, etc. She needs me!

 

[matts_mamamama]

Just from people I've spoken to IRL, I don't think they (at least the people I know) are disconnected or less devoted or love their babies less, I think they are DESPERATE. I think they have either been told that it's the best way to do it by family or friends and don't really know any better OR that they have simply reached a point that they don't feel they have any other options.

One friend of mine let her baby CIO (2 years ago) and the amount of guilt she feels to this day is amazing. Of course, she feels like it worked at the time, as her son C'dIO for 20 minutes one night, then 10 minutes the next, and then he slept through the night and has since (aside from the usual teething, illness, etc wakings). Would she do it again? I doubt it. Does her experience make me want to do it less (as if that were possible!) Yep.

Regardless, some people feel it their only option. I think it has more to do with influence, pressure and desperation than it does with love or connection.

 

[MarineWife]

I agree that I think parents either get desparate or they don't trust themselves when all the "experts" say CIO is good for the baby (most of the time). I can understand how it would be hard to go against what you heard and learned growing up and what everyone else is telling you. What is a mama supposed to do when everyone tells her she's spoiling her child by holding him too much? My dad tells this to me all the time and, although I never did CIO with my oldest, I was very young when I had him and I'm afraid he may have suffered because I questioned everything I wanted to do. The last thing any mama wants is to be a bad parent. That's why I think it's very important for those of us that do co-sleep, practice AP, bf on demand and past 6 months and allow child-led weaning be open about it. The more people see that our children are not spoiled and are actually the ones that are more confident and secure, the more people will realize that practicing AP does not spoil a child. The best way to lead is by example but, if we aren't also open about what we are doing, no one will know how it works.

 

[Mindful Mom]

I can tell you how it happens -- because I did it. We tried it for a little over a week. It didn't work, we felt bad, and we were strongly opposed to letting it be our lifestyle -- so we stopped.

I am one of those people you mentioned who say "nothing else worked". Seriously, we tried everything. Everything. Twice. My entire life pretty much consisted of getting Zoe to fall asleep and to stay asleep. She would only sleep snuggled up next to me (and only me) and she woke with every sound or movement (so sleeping in the sling wasn't really helpful). She wasn't getting nearly enough sleep and, because of that, she was always overtired and miserable. If she was my only child I would have simply sat with her and held her while she slept. No questions. But -- I also have a 2-year old who needs my love and attention. Because Zoe was so difficult to get to sleep and required quiet to stay asleep, I was constantly having to push Ean aside. He became more and more upset with me (and himself, I'm sure -- he didn't understand why I kept shushing him). He's too young to be left downstairs while I sat with Zoe upstairs, so we had to all be together. The last straw was the night I was nursing Zoe to sleep and Ean came in to say goodnight -- my knee-jerk reaction was to shoo him away so he wouldn't wake Zoe. The look on his face broke my heart. I knew something had to change and we starting CIO. I made the best decision I was able to given a crappy set of circumstances. I was not trying to get more sleep, or more time with my husband, or the freedom to go out at night. I was trying to preserve my relationship with my son and keep him from feeling cast aside. I am *not* disconnected from my daughter.

Rightly or wrongly, I do judge parents who use CIO as a matter of course -- like it's just another part of parenting. I think CIO is quite far from an ideal parenting choice, but not every case of CIO is a result of thoughtless parenting. It's not always cruel or abusive. I love my children very, very much and I consider us very attached.

Edited to add -- we went back to co-sleeping and I managed to find a way to help Zoe nap better. She's also needing less sleep these days -- so while she's still not a great sleeper, she's not miserable anymore. I would not consider CIO now that she's not so tired and unhappy.

 

[nankilicious]

I think about this alot too. I have an online friend whose baby was 6 wks old when she had to go back to work. When she came home at night, ''all the baby wants to do is nurse and be in my arms'', so she felt like she was spoiling him and was considering having him CIO. I felt like a very judgemental and intolerant person because of what I was thinking about this situation! I did mention to her that even Ferber says 6 mos is when to do this, not 6 weeks.

Just last night I was over at my moms to use her sewing machine. She was holding my baby, who was fussing. So she got out a blanket and laid it on the floor. Then she laid my DD on it, and walked away. After a few minutes, DD starts crying. I told my mom that leaving her alone wasnt going to work, and she said I was spoiling my daughter, who would *never learn to play alone*.

Yeah. A 4 month old baby is going to *learn* to play alone laying on the floor bawling her eyes out and being ignored. I mean honestly. What exactly is being taught here?

Its all a matter of degrees, too. My mom bf me for 8 mos, and she is pro bf-until the baby is too old-in other words, has teeth. Cant wait to hear what she says when my baby is a toddler and will probably still be bf!

On another board I read, one mom said that she never saw anyone use a sling or cloth diaper in real life. Everyone she knows does "traditional parenting- you know, regular diapers, formula, pacifiers." Traditional? Thats just what she is exposed to, you know?

Sometimes I worry that I am becoming really radical and fanatical, but I just find it really difficult to watch people make what I think are really critical parenting mistakes. I am working very hard on tolerance.

 

[Eustacia]

In my own personal parenting universive I have three friends who did CIO (closed the door and walked away). IMO that is child abandonment and their choice of using CIO has led me to keep them at an emotional arms length. I simply cannot stomach the choice they made. What bothers me the most is that hardcore CIO (close the door and never return) isn't recommended by any sleep writer/professional/researcher/expert. I have not read Ferber's book but from what I've heard it does not support the idea of closing a door and never returning to check on the baby. If my friends had done any real research on sleep they would have discovered that child abandonment just isn't recommended.

How does CIO happen? For these three women - each a different story. Mom #1: I believe that she felt that it wouldn't hurt her ds in the slightest to close the door and never return. Not much emotion in it for her. I imagine she thought, "close door, he'll learn, we'll head out to the library tomorrow". End of story for her.

Mom #2: She asked her own parents. They said, 'oh yes, we let you cry. Once you cried for 45 minutes. We were so sad and it was so hard but you learned'. This was all she needed to hear and she put the practice in place on her own ds.

Mom #3: She told me that she asked around and everyone said, 'oh, just let him cry'. They didn't do any research into less invasive methods they just shut the door and let him cry for hours.

These three friends all did CIO on boys. All three boys IMO are sullen, poor communicators, and not very independent. These boys learned at an early age that they couldn't trust their own parents.

It is hard to dissect what people are really thinking when they do CIO. I struggle with your post because you could subsitute a lot of words for CIO and ruffle feathers. For example I use a harness on my dd from time to time. I can just see the post now..."Harness...how does it happen?".

 

[ComaWhite]

Eustacia, there was a discussion a while ago on harnesses;
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=134193

 

[tuscany123]

When DD was born I soon learned I had a High Needs baby. I knew nothing about AP, but I knew what PPD was! I was a wreck, and I did not "fall-in-love" with my Baby until she was close to 3 months. It kills me to even write that out.

As disconnected as I "felt" was from my Baby (thanks to PPD distorting my sense of reality

), CIO was never an option. Even though I did not know it was "wrong" in theory, in practice I knew it was. DH and I tried it for 15 mins once because I was desperate. Even though I badly needed a break from DD, it felt wrong in my gut, and we went to her, and have NEVER tried it again.

I also "hated" BFing, but kept at it, because yet again, in my gut, I just kniew it was the right thing to do. I am glad I kept at it, because now with my DD at almost 8 months old, it is the biggest single joy in my life!

My point is, parents who use CIO know it doesn't "feel" right, but they ignore their instincts. I couldn't have been less ecstatic about the birth of my daughter, but still on some level, I just knew she needed me, and letting her cry alone was just wrong wrong wrong! (She did PLENTY of crying in my arms, let me tell you!!)

Thank God for AP! I got past my PPD (thanks to my DH and a great AP-supporting therapist), and now when I look at my DD I can't even fathom how it is possible to have so much love for one little person.

 

[littleteapot]

I agree on the desperation factor.
I see a lot of moms 'try it' because they 'have no other choice'.
I also think a lot has to do with peer pressure. All your friends do it, your parents did it, and all the parenting magazines advocate it (except for Mothering, of course!). In fact, mainstream mags like Parents often have articles about why you should do it. In their 'baby ABC's' a few months back, C was for "cry it out". F was for "family bed' but they said nothing positive, the blurb beneath it was about the dangers and a snide, "if you really want to do it" type of message. To me it seemed to be there to placate the alternative parents in a "See, we mentioned it!" type of way.

If you were young, this was your first child, you were exhausted and did not know where to look, and all your friends, parents and your doctor were breathing down your neck about why you should do it - would you? I know most of you will answer 'no', and I think that's because most of us are confidant and have the inner strength to pull from... but many may not, and that might be why they resort to it.
I've seen people that I was SURE would end up attachment parents be broken by CIO, even with extremely low-needs children, because 'everyone does it'. Most of these people try to cover it up by saying things like, 'oh it's just a tantrum', 'he's just a little angry at me' or calling it' whining'.

For me, CIO is the 'close the door and leave' type. Not the 'hold on, let me finish what I'm doing for 2 minutes' type. The type that lets their kids scream until they are hysterical, or vomit, some might even come in to 'check on them' every few minutes and make the child rejoice in the idea that mom is finally coming back... only to leave them again.

I tend not to get angry at someone who CIO's as much as I feel for their child. I feel sadness, and that emptiness and I wonder how lonely and afraid they feel. I want to wrap them up in my arms.

 

[pugmadmama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myniyer ...So how on earth does it happen? Am I just more devoted to my child than these other people? That doesn't seem possible, I love her so fiercely, but don't other mommas love their babies too?

Colicky Baby. Plus husband deploying for six months just ten days after baby's birth. Plus living 3000 miles from family. Plus not having any local friends. Plus dear friend being killed in an accident. Plus Post Partum Depression.

I was an emotional wreck. I was severely depressed. I was alone. But I was/am extremely devoted to my child and I love him as much as you love your child. I've always done the very best I could, even when that wasn't very good.

 

[Mindful Mom]

pugmadmama -- that sounds like it was a tough time. I hope things are better now.

 

[pugmadmama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindful Mom pugmadmama -- that sounds like it was a tough time. I hope things are better now.

Thank you. I should have clarified that that was 12 years ago. Although, now that I think about it, I'm still struggling with depression and my SO is getting ready to deploy again. But, it's a hell of a lot easier to deal with both of those things with a 12 year old than with a newborn.

Thank you again.

 

[tammylc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuscany123 When DD was born I soon learned I had a High Needs baby. I knew nothing about AP, but I knew what PPD was! I was a wreck, and I did not "fall-in-love" with my Baby until she was close to 3 months. It kills me to even write that out.

Totally off-topic, but...

I didn't have a High Needs baby or PPD, but it still took me six weeks to "fall-in-love" with DS. I had been fiercely protective of him since the moment of his birth, but love took longer. Looking back on my life, it takes me about 6-7 weeks to fall into romantic love as well, so maybe that's just the way I'm wired.

Just giving you another perspective so maybe you won't feel so bad.

 

[aprildawn]

i agree with the previous posters who have said some do CIO because they think it's the "right" thing to do. magazines, books, even doctors pressure parents to have the baby going to sleep on their own and staying asleep long before most babies are ready to (IMO).

when dd was about 6 months old our pediatrician told me to start teaching her to sleep on her own or else she'd "never learn." at the next appointment she asked about sleep and i told her dd was waking up once or twice to nurse. i got a lecture from her about it. from then on when she'd ask about sleep my response would be, "she's doing fine." or "sleep is not a problem." she could take from that what she wanted (i assume she thought i meant dd was going to sleep on her own and/or sleeping thru).

i felt A LOT of pressure to do CIO though. some nights, after dd's 1st bday, when we'd be up for the 3rd or 4th time with her wanting to party...not nurse...not comfort...just play, i'd think that we should do cio. i started to believe what the books and doctors were saying. we tried it a couple of times. but her personality changed and it was miserable.

dd just turned 2 and we're just beginning to have more nights of her sleeping thru than we have nights of her waking. but, it's not a problem.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

Probably because so many people say 'well I did it' or suggest it. On another board I post on only about 3 or 4 of us are anti-cio. Everyone else asks about it and when they say they finally did it they get all these happy smilies and congrats uke. That is horrible to be happy that someone used cio and it worked.

I really need to stop reading mainstream boards because I get so aggrevated reading stuff like that. Another post was "if this baby isn't sleeping through the night by 4 months then I am using CIO like I did with my other kids"

. Poor babies.

I try and post something positive so that hopefully other's think about it. One of the members was saying something like 'oh my baby is up half the night he is horrible, he is crying until he pukes urgh what can I do'. I suggested co-sleeping but she is against it.

E is so happy that we co-sleep, if she wakes up at all she sees me snuggles closer and goes back to sleep. Last night I happened to still be awake when she woke up for second, she gave me the biggest smile and then lied back down

.

 

[rainbowmoon]

poor babies..that makes me sick that people think congratulations are in order for using CIO..ugh.

I am starting to now get flak for never putting ds down and picking him up too much...I have been told he is too "clingy"..wtf? he's only 4 months old! how independant do people want babies to be and how is CIO supposed to make them independant? sheesh..

 

[loraxc]

I am about to get flamed to high heaven, but I can live with it.

We have used CIO. It worked. I never thought I would do it, either.

Our baby was getting up at 3 or 4 am EVERY night, and would not go back to sleep (after nursing) without first a half an hour, then an hour, then an hour and a half, then TWO SOLID HOURS of rocking and singing. She never used to do this--it started one night when she didn't go back to sleep after nursing as usual and DH took her out to the living room and played with her. *sigh* She then figured out that we would hang out with her at that hour. She was not hungry, wet, or in need of anything physically--just wanted to be awake. She was then a cranky BEAR during the day and DH and I were both completely and utterly exhausted.

I have terribly difficult BFing issues that I am struggling through, and simply could not cope. I was crying every day and finding myself alarmingly angry at my daughter. I even yelled at her once or twice in the middle of the night. I was not a nice mama during those night wakings.

She cried for 15 minutes the first night, 10 the next, 7 the next and then not at all. It was not heartbroken screaming--it was more the "complaint" cry, sometimes just "ennnh" fussing. No, we did not check on her, although I had an internal limit of 15 minutes that she somehow magically did not go over. She now goes back to sleep quietly after her early AM nursing.

She was tired and not doing well during the day. We were tired and not doing well during the day. We had gotten into a terrible habit by accident; DD was a good sleeper fro birth and I knew this was not naturally "her." I wonder what you all would have done? Seriously, we tried everything before we resorted to this, (including reading no-Cry Sleep Solution about a jillion times, and finding no answers) and I hated doing it, but it did work, and all of us are doing a lot better. By the way, she would cry whether we were in the room or out of it...it was not about fear that she was abandoned, it was wanting to play and interact. Nothing anout her daytime personality has changed for the worse--rather, she is happier and better-rested.

Flame away, but god knows I love my baby like anything in the world and did not do this because I am "unattached." I actually do not really care if I am judged, because I was the one in that dark place and I know I made the right choice. Again, we tried to solve the issue every other way we could

Cosleeping did not solve our problems either, btw...in fact, it made them worse.

 

[ShadowMom]

I just have no sympathy for people who use CIO.

I work full-time and go to school, so no one knows more than I do about being BONE DEAD TIRED. For the last 3-4 months, my son has woken up SEVERAL times each night (I suspect teething because he now has 6 teeth and more coming in). I get so tired, I don't even have any idea now how many times he wakes up. Could be 3, could be 6, I really don't know.

I have never even CONSIDERED using CIO. Am I tired? Yes. Do I really, really wish he would sleep longer? Oh yes, yes I do. But why would I ever leave him alone in a room to cry??

I blast my a/c on the way home from work sometimes so I won't get sleepy. At work I have to really focus to get stuff done.

That's part of being a parent. I'm a mom now and my son needs me. I feel that this is one of my first defining moments as a parent (that, and bf'ing).

I've had as much pressure as anyone to "let him cry", especially from DH. Do I feel he would necessarily be permanently scarred long-term if I did that? No, probably not, babies don't have very long memories. But I don't care. I would be violating the trust he has in me, and I'm just not going to do that.

Now, all of that said, there's CIO and then there's CIO. There's a difference between a baby making a little irritated noise and then going back to sleep after a few seconds, and a baby who's awake and crying and wants his mama/dada and is only going to get more upset and angry the longer it goes on.

Oh, and I have news for people who use CIO. All babies wake up a few times a night. Your baby is probably not getting better sleep. He/she is just not crying for you when they wake up. Read anything on how infants sleep and it describes how easily they wake up and how it's normal to wake up a few times. I have seen a lot of posts describing how much better sleep their baby gets after CIO (thereby justifying the method) and I just don't buy it. CIO is mainly for parents, not for baby.