[babycarrot]

Has anyone been told that they need to teach their babes how to 'comfort themselves to sleep'? In this past week both my mom and ped have said this to me, that we need to start teaching Marsha to comfort herself to sleep rather than always falling asleep at the breast. That does makes sense to me, for the reason of not having the BM pool in the mouth. I'm not sure how to go about doing this without it turning out to be a walk into CIO land. Or if it's really even needed at all. The ped told me that it is a needed thing, the skill of falling asleep on your own. He said that the reason why so many adults are on meds like Ambien is due to the fact they didn't learn good sleep habits as babies. What do you Mamas think?

 

[kavamamakava]

Bunch of hooey.
I have 3 kids. #1 liked to be rocked to sleep but would sometimes fall asleep on his own. He didn't sleep through the night until he was 3 and loves it when I read him to sleep in his bed. #2 has always fought sleep and I would bounce/rock/stroll/drive/pat/sing/pace to sleep but sleeps for really long stretches and only wakes at night when something is troubling her. She's been like this from day 1. #3 is the odd one. She gets mad when I try to rock her to sleep. She likes to be put in bed awake and then babbles herself to sleep. She just turned 4 months old. She sleeps very well at night too. But wakes up at 5:30

I'll go out on a limb here and blame cribs and CIO for Ambien

And whoever gave you the idea that breastmilk pooling in the mouth is a bad thing is full of doodoo. Breastmilk has antibacterial properties and keeps the mouth and teeth protected at night. Plus, it doesn't pool in the mouth like liquids from a bottle do. The nipple is in the back of the throat. When you nursling has teeth, wipe them with gauze or brush them before bed to get food residue off. This will prevent the sugars from food from sticking to the teeth and interacting with any sugars in the milk. Clean teeth benefit from breastmilk. It also remineralizes the teeth.
Read up about it at this dentist's web site:
http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/

 

[babycarrot]

See, that is why I'm kind of confused. Once Marsha is asleep for the night she's out for around 10 hours straight. I think she's doing fine in the sleep department! :LOL

Just trying to get more insight as to why Dr. Mom and Clinic Dr. tell me.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[AugustineM]

My ped and MIL also told me the same thing -- that "learning how to sleep on your own" is important for babies. At first I worried that I would set up a "bad habit" by always helping my DS to sleep, but then I started realizing -- what else would I do? FORCE him to sleep by leaving him alone in his crib to cry to sleep? Um, no way. That's not teaching sleep anyway, that's teaching that you won't come when they cry. I did *try* to lay him down drowsy many times in his early months, just to see if he would go to sleep on his own (I don't think there's any harm in that) but he never did, he always started to cry. So I kept nursing/rocking to sleep, and still do. But I can say that I've seen a change in the way he falls asleep now. He used to fall asleep with the breast in his mouth and it took a long time until I could unlatch him. Now he often won't fall alseep nursing, he'll rustle around in bed, and I'll pat his back, and he falls asleep that way. So, I think that children develop a sleep maturity at different times -- some earlier than later. When they can go to sleep on their own.

Don't worry -- your child will be your child for 50, 60, 70 years. Why rush things?

Oh, and breastmilk doesn't pool in the mouth like liquid from a bottle. The reason is that liquid from a bottle can drip continuously whether the baby sucks or not. Milk from the breast must be actively sucked out to the point of let-down (usually), so it's not like milk just keeps coming out and pools in their mouth while they sleep.

 

[babycarrot]

Thanks, I never knew that about the milk needing to be sucked from the breast but it makes perfect sense! Silly me!

We don't so-sleep so that tosses a new factor into the equation. I tried to co-sleep a couple times when hubby hasn't been home but Marsha and I both need our space.

I'm now realising this is in the wrong folder

 

[kavamamakava]

Nadia needs her space too. She sleeps with her arms and legs outstretched. :LOL
If she's in bed with us, she wedges herself across the bed so she can push against us with her head and feet. Yuck!
She sleeps with Skanda in a full size mattress turned sideways. They have plenty of room now.
I think that learning how to fall asleep comes from knowing comfort when falling asleep. My mom used to sing us to sleep with her guitar every night. Some of a person's sleep habits seem to be genetic too. My younger sister often gets insomnia. I've always been able to sleep anytime, anywhere.

 

[maria423]

I think it's a bunch of hooey too.

BUT....

if you have a toddler running around the house, sometimes it's very difficult to have the half hour to nurse the baby to sleep. There are some great tips in the No Cry Sleep Solution on how to put your baby to bed awake. Basically, you nurse the baby till she's JUST falling asleep (but definitely still awake) and then you put her in the bed. It might take multiple tries, but eventually she'll be able to be placed in her bed and fall asleep on her own. Then you don't have to spend as long nursing her to sleep, making sure she's dead asleep, then putting her in the crib and, if she woke up, starting all over again. (This is what I did with dd, and it was fine, but I didn't have another child to tend to at the same time.)

I found that essential in our home with dc#2. My dd was way too noisy to bring her with when I tried to put ds down for naps, but I don't want to leave her alone for a long time while I nurse him to sleep. So this worked well for us.

 

[katebleu]

personally, the fact that dd taught herself to self comfort at about 2 months is a godsend for me. she sucks on her fist and rubs her hair over her ear. it's really cute. is her perferred method of falling asleep after nursing just to sleep. and it keeps her asleep for longer periods of time. BUT only if she good and out. if she's not mostly asleep, she wakes herself up and is really mad. then we nurse back to just asleep.

(although it's still really, really cute to watcher her madly rubbing her head and sucking on her fist with this 'it worked last time' determination on her face.)

 

[mightymoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria423 There are some great tips in the No Cry Sleep Solution on how to put your baby to bed awake.

: Working with a baby to get them to fall asleep on their own or without nursing doesn't necessarily mean CIO. The NCSS has some great tips on this. If the baby isn't ready though, working on getting them to fall asleep on their own could be a very long process and I agree with the PP, unnecessary.

I found that if I just paid close attention to my DD's development and milestones I often found a perfect window of opportunity for most of these things. At 18 months DD got her own room and a twin bed. We found that she was so excited about the new bed, she was happy to sleep there and a week later TOLD Dh to leave so she could go asleep on her own (bye bye daddy!) - she's been going to sleep on her own ever since. When they are ready, they will make the transition and it will be much easier if you wait until that point rather that trying to push them before they are ready.

 

[Malama]

I nursed both of my older boys to sleep til most of the time they were nursing (into toddlerhood). Both fall asleep just fine on their own now, though the younger one takes longer..... sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.... it's like that thing where everyone asks if the baby sleeps through the night- I don't sleep through the night, so how can I expect my baby to do it???

 

[dianna11]

Oh for pete's sake! Most of the people on Ambien were from the CIO generation! That and they generally have crappy diets and activity levels, and their doctors are more likely to just write out a prescription than treat the problem!

 

[kamesennin]

Oh I wish my little dd would nurse herself to sleep! I love it when she used to fall asleep at the breast. Just the look on her face was so precious! At 7 weeks she found her thumb and there was no turning back, she gets so mad if I try to stuff the boob in her mouth now.

I don't think there is anything wrong with nursing to sleep, by the way. It looks like a wonderful way to fall asleep. I bet they have great dreams too.

 

[kiahnsmum]

Whats Ambien?

Self soothing is one of the most irritating things people say to me, i've heard it so many times that the next person who advises of the needs of babies might need a trip to the ER!

I love feeding my dd to sleep (i have the odd night where i wish dh could do it), my ds who is now 5 is a great sleeper has no problems going to sleep himself, so many people said i was screwing him up and that he would suffer from sleep problems when he was older

:
Go with what you feel is right, as far as i'm concerned its the reason mothers have breasts!

 

[babycarrot]

I really appreciate the input of what you've experienced. I think I may rent or buy "The No Cry Sleep Solution" to read and incorperate some of the ideas. My siblings are coming to town end of next month so I will chat with them too I bet. I am so glad to have 6 nieces and nephews plus all you ladies on here!

 

[justmandy]

Okay, I have a different perspective. I'm on baby #3 and just learned about AP so my first 2 did CIO. I don't feel badly about it, but I don't feel like it's the only/best way either. The way I feel (about all parenting issues) is you need to do what is right in your own heart. No book is right, not AP not mainstream not Dr Phil or Dr Sears. It's mama's and thier intuition. I know when my kids need to be held and I know when they just need to sleep--you know that tired that makes everything else in the world piss them off. I am excited to hear about the no cry method, but I don't think a little crying will ruin them or thier trust in you.

**I never did the hard core CIO, I had a friend that did that and I thought it was awful, I did a gentler version that worked for us. Please don't send me hate mail.**

 

[mandalamama]

i believe it's how you interpret"comforting yourself" ... my daughter comforts herself to sleep by rubbing the edge of a favorite blankie, but she does it either in my arms, or beside me on the bed. i don't think co-sleeping and self-soothing are exclusional. Willow has sucked her thumb, chosen a binky, rubbed her blankie, twined her fingers in my hair, or simply made funny little "puppy snuffle" noises

to soothe herself to sleep, while she's stretched out on the bed. so while i'm there for her, she's the one falling asleep on her own. sometimes she'll lie awake and softly babble to herself for a while, i pretend i'm asleep and peek out from underneath my hair so i can watch all the sweet baby whispering! as long as she doesn't realize i'm awake (then she'll want to play), she babbles herself off into Dreamland. i definitely think a baby can soothe themselves to sleep even if they're in our arms, if we just sit back and watch what they do

 

[kiahnsmum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMandy **I never did the hard core CIO, I had a friend that did that and I thought it was awful, I did a gentler version that worked for us. Please don't send me hate mail.**

I'd be interested to know what the gentle version of CIO is.

 

[PinkSunfish]

I hear that a lot too, usually as a justification for doing CIO.

My perosnal view is that when people say that babies need to learn to self settle they really mean "adults need babies to learn to self setlle", which lets face it would be lovely.

My DD does not self settle and hasn't since teething pain hit her at 13 weeks old. I am happy to BF her down to sleep. I assume that she will naturally learn to go to sleep herself or I can help to teach her in a gentle fashion as she grows.

To the OP if your DD BFs to sleep and sleeps for ten hours then don't rock the boat. I haven't slept for ten hours straight since the second trimester

!

 

[jenP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kavamamakava And whoever gave you the idea that breastmilk pooling in the mouth is a bad thing is full of doodoo. Breastmilk has antibacterial properties and keeps the mouth and teeth protected at night. Plus, it doesn't pool in the mouth like liquids from a bottle do. [/url]

I have to disagree here. I have personally seen breastmilk pooled in my DD's mouth as she sleeps, because her style was to stay on the boob pretty much all night and she didn't swallow the last gulp. She developed "bottle rot." It started out mild but as so many people told me it COULDN"T be caries in a BF baby I didn't get treatment early enough and it got pretty bad, she was in a lot of pain. The lesson I took from our ordeal was that there is lactose in BM and lactose is sugar and bacteria that cause cavities digest sugar and produce acid that causes cavities. Plenty of babies can have sugar (from BM or formula or food) on their teeth and never have a problem. It has to do with the balance of good/bad bacteria in the mouth, the ph and amount of saliva, etc. etc. I learned the hard way, exclusive BF is not a guarantee against cavities. We ended up starting to rinse her mouth after all night nursings. sometimes we would get in a good rinsing and she would swallow and not even wake up! Other times she would wake and of course want the nipple back but would then accept other methods to get back to sleep - rocking, walking, back patting/rubbing, singing... you name it. I don't think there is any need to try to "teach" an infant to "put herself to sleep." My feeling was always, she can't walk or talk or use the toilet by herself, but she is supposed to be able to go to sleep all by herself without help from me??? BULL! They will learn to do that on their own schedule, just like they do everything else.

Jen

 

[HydeParkB]

I am currently reading "The No Cry Sleep Solution." I read Dr. Sear's Nighttime Parenting book, but a lot of that didn't work for us because we aren't cosleeping.

NCSS is about teaching/conditioning babies to self-soothe, so that they get the right amount and quality sleep. (As I said, I'm reading it right now - not sure if it will work.) I usually nurse DD to sleep, which is fine with me. But sometimes that doesn't work in the middle of the night. Sunday night, for example, she was up for 3+ hours in the middle of the night, nursed 4 times, but never really fell asleep. After her dad held her for 20 minutes she was OUT. Plus, I think she could nap better, which occurs when I am at work.

The author of NCSS (Pantley?) includes specific advice and methods for families that co-sleep.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that learning to settle doesn't mean the same thing at CIO. (Actually, they seem quite the opposite to me.

)

Jen, thanks for sharing your experience with breastfeeding and dental carries. Poor DD!