Concerning teacher behaviors

catinthehat · Nov 15, 2010

My dd is in first grade this year. Her teacher is a second year teacher and as the principle says to me, she has one of the most "structured" classes in the school. I am finding myself increasingly concerned over her behavior management methods and her behavior in general. The biggest, "oh my" moment for me came last week when I came in to visit dd in school. The school has an open door policy for parents, and I had not told the teacher I was coming, but I didn't think it would be a big deal. I walk into dd's classroom and her teacher looks at me with a look of hatred and says, "Can I help you?" I say no, I just came in to see dd, and she just glares at me and turns away and ignores me completely the rest of the class time. I actually sit on the floor because she does not offer me a chair the whole time. Then as I am leaving with dd to go out to recess she stops me and says, "Can you please let me know next time if you are going to come in! I am extremely upset because you are here, and I take it very personally that you came!". I reassure her that I simply came to see my child, and she keeps saying to me(almost freaking out with anger), "I take it very personally, I am really upset..."
I was so caught off guard, that I didn't know what to say to her. Now I feel like, why was she so defensive, what is she trying to hide?
She has done other things that dd has told me about-
-has a rule that if a child tells on another child for hurting, calling names, etc. and the child that did it won't admit to hurting, they both get in trouble until the child admits to what they did.
-when dd came to tell her that someone was hurting someone else, she said, "Why are you such a tattle tale?" dd was crying about this becuase she didn't understand the difference between being a tattle tale and trying to take care of your friends. 
-when I come into the classroom, it is dead silent. None of the first graders talk, and if they do, she is on them like that. It feels like an atmosphere full of shaming, rigidity, and emotional control. 
Is this the norm for public school? I feel like when I talk to other people around here, no one seems especially bothered by this kind of thing(I live in a very conservative area). 
I wrote her an email today asking to talk with her about our conversation the other day. I am really anxious to even talk to her though because of the level of anger and hatred she threw at me last time. And I am concerned about the well being of my child, because to me, this woman seems unstable.

_ktg_ · Nov 15, 2010

I will probably be in the minority - but there are several things that I would be upset with too if I was that teacher. While the school has an open door policy about visiting classrooms, you should have given the teacher notice of when you would be stopping by. Its a professional courtsey, instead of just coming in and sitting down without her knowledge, and she might planned a bit more with the kids to ensure they didn't get too distracted with you there.
 
As for how you handled it - I'm sorry but you lied to her when the teacher asked why you were there. You have concerns and instead of letting her know your concerns and discussing them with her, you didn't give her any information about the concerns. I would be upset too, because I have someone here to "visit their child" but really may have an agenda about concerns which I can't address. 
 
At least this teacher was able to vocalize her concerns that your unannounced presence upset her and may have caused additional distraction and issue in her classroom. I don't think she's unstable, she just shook up confidence wise as to why you were there.

midnightwriter · Nov 15, 2010

Oh gosh, is a teacher is SO shaken up by a parent's visit that she can't hide her *hatred*, she sounds pretty unstable to me. KTG, I can't comprehend your logic at all. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by _ktg_ <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279563/concerning-teacher-behaviors#post_16047623"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I will probably be in the minority - but there are several things that I would be upset with too if I was that teacher. While the school has an open door policy about visiting classrooms, you should have given the teacher notice of when you would be stopping by. Its a professional courtsey, instead of just coming in and sitting down without her knowledge, and she might planned a bit more with the kids to ensure they didn't get too distracted with you there.
 
As for how you handled it - I'm sorry but you lied to her when the teacher asked why you were there. You have concerns and instead of letting her know your concerns and discussing them with her, you didn't give her any information about the concerns. I would be upset too, because I have someone here to "visit their child" but really may have an agenda about concerns which I can't address. 
 
At least this teacher was able to vocalize her concerns that your unannounced presence upset her and may have caused additional distraction and issue in her classroom. I don't think she's unstable, she just shook up confidence wise as to why you were there.
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Chamomile Girl · Nov 15, 2010

No no no no. ktg I cannot fathom why you are defending this teacher's immature display of anger. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by _ktg_ <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279563/concerning-teacher-behaviors#post_16047623"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I will probably be in the minority - but there are several things that I would be upset with too if I was that teacher. While the school has an open door policy about visiting classrooms, you should have given the teacher notice of when you would be stopping by. Its a professional courtsey, instead of just coming in and sitting down without her knowledge, and she might planned a bit more with the kids to ensure they didn't get too distracted with you there.
 
As for how you handled it - I'm sorry but you lied to her when the teacher asked why you were there. You have concerns and instead of letting her know your concerns and discussing them with her, you didn't give her any information about the concerns. I would be upset too, because I have someone here to "visit their child" but really may have an agenda about concerns which I can't address. 
 
At least this teacher was able to vocalize her concerns that your unannounced presence upset her and may have caused additional distraction and issue in her classroom. I don't think she's unstable, she just shook up confidence wise as to why you were there.
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 OP I would report to the principal of the school with both your concerns and what happened when you went to the classroom. The way this teacher treated you is inexcusable and I hope it gets her fired! If she is only a second year teacher she does not yet have tenure. You really need to talk to her supervisor!! I am a teacher and I simply cannot imagine ever treating someone like that. Someone with anger issues like that who is willing to call a child a tattletale should not be teaching. Period.
 
If she has an issue with visiting the classroom only at certain times the proper thing to do would have been to talk to you politely when you arrived. She should also have made you feel welcome no matter what! She is a caretaker for your child after all.

mamalisa · Nov 15, 2010

I think just coming to hang out in class is kind of strange. I'm at school almost daily for PTA things and I never just stop in ds's class. If I'm doing work for his teacher I stop in when I know there's unstructured class time so I don't disturb them. It's really hard to get kids refocused when there's a disruption to the class. Walking in unannounced to visit isn't something that any parent I know would do. Our school is very open to volunteers, parents coming in for lunch or to play at recess (I'm often a ringer for volleyball) but just to come in and observe class isn't done unless there's a concern.
 
BUT, her freaking out and saying she was upset you were there is super weird. Upset why? About what? 
 
Bullying a child into admitting they did something wrong is just bad.
Tattle tale is name calling and unacceptable. Telling to keep someone safe is NEVER wrong.
So I do think that you have things to address, after school in a meeting.

sapphire_chan · Nov 15, 2010

My mom was in my school several days a week when I was in elementary school (volunteering with my little brother)--and I almost never saw her. She'd look in through the door. It is astonishing to me that you would just walk into the classroom like that.
 
For one thing, how exactly are you going to make a proper observation of how the class runs normally if you disrupt things?
 
However, what I think the teacher should have done is told you to leave.
 
And I think, just on your dd's reports alone, that you should get her pulled from the class.

Drummer's Wife · Nov 15, 2010

I do think that showing up, unannounced, and sitting in on the class is inappropriate. The considerate route would have included speaking to the teacher ahead of time to set up a time to come in and observe (or volunteer, which would have helped her out as well as allowed you to witness the classroom dynamics). 
 
That all said, I do agree that her reaction was a bit odd, and overly defensive. She must have felt that you don't trust her and were checking up on her - w/o being upfront about your concerns. I don't at all think she is justified in how she spoke to you about it, but I do think she was caught off guard and sounds rather anxious and possibly stressed out. I would ask her to meet with you when it's convenient for her, or if necessary, discuss your concerns with the principal. 
 
I had an incident at the beginning of the year with my DD's 4th grade teacher and I honestly was too intimidated to approach her (the teacher) about it, so I made an appointment with the principal and we worked things out. I've since talked with my DD's teacher about it, and feel much more at ease with her so I am comfortable going to her first with concerns (which is the way it should be; leave admin out of it if possible, IMO). The principal did suggest I observe in my DD's classroom to help feel better about it all - which I declined - but I promise you I would have set it up ahead of time so that all parties knew I would be there on that day to sit in on the class with the sole purpose of observing.

catinthehat · Nov 16, 2010

Thank you for the replies. Perhaps you all are right that I should have emailed the day before to let her know I was coming in. However, I don't think it is THAT strange that I did it. Lots of parents have time come up when they have an hour they didn't know they would have and they decide to go visit their child. This is only first grade you know, not a highschool chem lab I am disrupting. 
On another note, I made a planned visit earlier in the year and i asked after my hour of allotted time that we had discussed if it would be okay for me to stay a little longer. She looked at me with pure hatred and said, "Fine." I am sorry, but I don't think either of my actions deserve that kind of disrespect. I guess I just don't get why it is such a huge deal for a parent to come in to see there child in first grade without it planned 3 weeks in advance, especially when that is the school policy. I am not at her school 3 days a week for PTA, I am lucky to come in once a month b/c this teacher is total control freak who makes me feel like shit when I ask to spend time with my child.
I believe she rules that classroom through shame, and emotional and psychological manipulation.

GuildJenn · Nov 16, 2010

I see a lot of language that is hard to interpret. Like that she looked at you with hatred - that could very well be and I wasn't there, but I do wonder if it's a misinterpretation. She may have been taken aback and have a face that has a particular look or whatever. So I wonder what exactly made you go to hatred and whether there might be some history or other reason that you would say that. It's a very strong statement.
 
For other things:
 
-has a rule that if a child tells on another child for hurting, calling names, etc. and the child that did it won't admit to hurting, they both get in trouble until the child admits to what they did.
 
I see that your DD said this, and this would concern me. However I am aware that 6 & 7 year olds can misinterpret. Have you asked the teacher about this policy? I would definitely want to know.
 
-when dd came to tell her that someone was hurting someone else, she said, "Why are you such a tattle tale?" dd was crying about this becuase she didn't understand the difference between being a tattle tale and trying to take care of your friends. 
 
That is harsh, although I do believe in making the distinction (telling is when you get someone out of trouble, tattling is when you get them into trouble - and standing up for a friend is a good thing). Same thing though - I think you need to ask, because there may have been more to the story; if it was the 12th complaint that day, although I don't agree with the phrasing, it may be understandable.
 
-when I come into the classroom, it is dead silent. None of the first graders talk, and if they do, she is on them like that. It feels like an atmosphere full of shaming, rigidity, and emotional control. 
 
You probably have good instincts on this, but I also know that with my son's Montessori, people have interpreted it that way when really it is just...quiet. So again, I don't know if you have all the information.
 
I would definitely request a talk with the teacher and if she is equally defensive when you've given her the courtesy of speaking to her directly and with warning, I'd go to the principal.
 
Is this the norm for public school?
If everything is as described, no, not really - although the way you dropped in would have put a number of teachers I worked with off.

sapphire_chan · Nov 16, 2010

You're right, it isn't a high school chemistry class, because in a high school chemistry class you'd have to make some real effort to totally distract the 14-18 year old students from being able to accomplish the assignment (they'd probably talk about you just walking into the class, but they'd still get stuff done), while merely opening the door on a first grade class room could result in any number of the 5-7 year olds becoming distracted and unable to concentrate--often long after you've left.
 
The teacher seems to have the typical new teacher difficulty with dealing with noise, so the inevitable rustling when something new (like a random parent) would likely have been quite disturbing to her.
 
Now, are you absolutely, 100% sure that she was looking at you with hate and not just staring at you while she thought about the situation? Personally,if someone I hated asked if they could stay longer, I would tell them to go away. I wouldn't say that it's fine for them to stay where I'm working. But I might just stand there glaring at you for a bit while I figure out if the next part of what I'm doing will work with you there.
 
If, looking back on things from that perspective, you still feel that she hated you for a simple request like that, then why haven't you already gone to the principal about it?
 
 
 
And no, I don't think you needed to announce before you observed the class--only before you entered the class. Especially since you have concerns about the teacher. Why let her see that you're observing?
 
Also, it feels a bit entitled to me to expect the teacher to interrupt her teaching to move a chair over for you. (I'm assuming there were chairs available, because you wouldn't have expected her to go fetch a chair.)

stik · Nov 16, 2010

You've described this teacher as looking at you with "pure hatred" a couple times. I would be wary of reading too much into a teacher's facial expression. I teach high school students all day, and I make some pretty weird faces when I'm nervous. Parents aren't allowed to randomly drop in to my classes, but they would make me pretty nervous if they did. As a teacher, I like to focus on teaching my students and maintaining a positive environment for learning. I think that's pretty obvious to the most casual observer, but I know that there are some parents in my community with malicious agendas, and young teachers are often seen as easy targets to these people. Parents don't typically drop by classrooms because they want to visit with their kids. It's rude to chat with them during class, for one thing. Teachers don't typically have time to play hostess and find people adult-sized chairs. No matter who else is in the room, they are personally responsible for monitoring 25 children. For comparison, the school superintendent dropped by my classroom this morning. I completely ignored her - I had 30 students to teach and they have a test tomorrow. I don't care who they are, adult passers-by are not among my job priorities. 
 
You should definitely talk to the teacher about your concerns about tattling vs. asking for adult help with interpersonal issues. Send her a polite email. I would let the quiet classroom go - it sounds like the teacher is trying to create an environment that fosters focus and concentration. That's a good thing. If you want to observe the class, you should be frank with the teacher about your agenda and your concerns.

mum4vr · Nov 16, 2010

I am a teacher, and I am a parent.
 
Wherever my child is, I can be. period. All immature feelings and taking things personally aside. If a parent cannot be where their child is announced or unannounced, someone feels they must hide something every every single time. No exceptions.
 
Yes, it may be disruptive, yes it may bother her that she didn't have notice, but ummmm... YOU gave birth to that child (or went thru an entirely different, but also painful and rewarding adoption process!) in great pain and peril of your life-- she is YOURS and you have a right to be where she is. To me this pre-empts the rights of a teacher to have an (imaginary) interuption-free day (there are ALWAYS interuptions with or without an unexpected parent popping in). I'm glad your DD's school has such a great policy that supports the parent-child bond in a public school!
 
I do not understand anyone defending this teacher's behavior at all-- especially when school policy clearly allows for unannounced visits from parents!
 
Parents pop into my classes ATT, and they are greeted warmly, given a seat near their child, and class goes on. Even a 2nd year teacher should be able to manage classroom interuptions better than the description-- and leaving anyone sitting on the floor!? terrible behavior!
 
IMO the OP was not lying to the teacher about her visit-- she WAS there to see her DD.
 
It is WAY past time to schedule a mtg with the principal and the teacher to discuss all these issues, and prolly to reassign DD to another teacher.

catinthehat · Nov 16, 2010

Thank you Mum4vr. I totally agree, she is my child, and I do have a right to be with her when I choose! I am not a malicious woman trying to target a second year teacher. I am a loving parent who senses things are amiss with this teacher, and wants to know what is going on in my child's classroom. My dd's teacher last year was hated by lots of people in the area,but to me she was kind and to my dd she was kind. That is all that mattered to me. When my husband and I would come in to visit she would have us read a story, etc. 
I hear what you all are saying about the look of hatred and how that could eb misinterpreted, and I will keep that in mind when I have a meeting with her. 
I have talked to the principal twice already, and she said she will stop by her class more often b/c she found some of the things I descirbed upsetting and inapropriate.

spedteacher30 · Nov 16, 2010

It sounds like you have spoken to the principal twice, dropped in unannounced once, and haven't yet spoken to the teacher about your concerns. Is that true? When I was teaching, I would have been pretty upset with a parent--not to mention the principal--for the timing of these events. I would guess that the teacher is frustrated that she knows from the principal that you have concerns, maybe even what the concerns are, and feels that you are not being honest and upfront.

Petie1104 · Nov 16, 2010

I have to say, my first response at hearing what your dd described would be to contact the teacher and ask. I don't think you should have walked in first and then asked. BUT, I do think you had a right to visit. I ALSO know that most teachers have times that are more appropriate than others. Walking into ds's 1st grade class between 10-1030 it was DEAD silence because it was a time when they were being taught a specific subject (math for his class) walking in between 2-220 was a bit more activity because it was more a winding down time and centers where talking is allowed as long as they kept it under control. So sitting in for an hour isn't really something to judge the class on. Personally, if I was a teacher of 20 kids, I would demand no talking during teaching. I would hate to have a parent judge the happiness of the class by that.
 
OK, so I also see a lot of subjective language in your post. With that, if what you said is true, then I think a couple things should happen. You should address your concerns with the teacher and if you get nowhere with that, then take it to the principal. But give the teacher a chance. As a parent with a very obedient mellow child, I was concerned when he came home and told me he got into trouble for something I thought was unreasonable. BUT, when I went to the class and talked to the teacher I was reassured because she explained it fully and it wasn't at all what ds had said it was. I've also had that happen with dd. Often times things that kids say aren't the whole truth, so don't assume too much and give the teacher a chance to explain. Now, if she says, "yes, I do punish both because I wonder if the tattler lied to get the other into trouble" well, then definately take that up with the principal. If she says, "that happened once and this is the circumstance that was involved" then you may find that she explained it and there is no need for concern.

Belia · Nov 16, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by mum4vr <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279563/concerning-teacher-behaviors#post_16048412"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> Wherever my child is, I can be. period. All immature feelings and taking things personally aside. If a parent cannot be where their child is announced or unannounced, someone feels they must hide something every every single time. No exceptions.
 
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 Really? My kid had surgery last week, and I wasn't allowed to be with him. Why?? So the doctor in whom I trusted his care could do his job.
 
The degree of seriousness may be different, but the basic concept is not. I agree that the OP's language in describing this teacher is pretty judgey, and I would be pretty put off if I were interrupted in my job in such a way. I think there was probably a way to get the information you're looking for (basically, observing the tone and tenor of the class) in a more collaborative way.

sapphire_chan · Nov 16, 2010

If I had a child in a school, and another parent insisted on walking into my kid's class whenever they felt like it, I'd be very angry. I believe parents have a right to be with their children at any time, but that means you can pull your kid from class to be with you. Not that you get to disrupt all the other kids.

catinthehat · Nov 16, 2010

I have found most of the replies here to be extremely irrational and almost like you are just playing the devils advocate. I have a hard time believing that most of the mothers here would not have acted in the same way I did if they were in a similar situation with a teacher. I DID confront dd's teacher at the conferences sevral weeks ago about several things dd had told me about and she TOTALLY denied all of them. So, I am left with the options of A. teacher is lying, or B. dd is lying. I know my child, and I do believe she can exagerate sometimes, but she doesn't make things up and pretend to be cry about them. So, what would you do? 
The first time I met the teacher, my intution said "uh oh". And every experience I have had with her since then has reenforced that feeling. I wanted to go into the classroom and have a kind, welcoming interaction with her, I DON'T LIKE drama or confrontation(especially not with someone who seems to dislike me so much!). But alas, she verbally attacked me in front of my child because I came in to her classroom without warning. Again, it is school policy parents are allowed to do this, and I think this is the reason for the policy, don't you?
Again, I think many of you seem especially antagonistic towards my post, and I can't help but wonder if it is your own stuff that is making you react so strongly to me coming to visit my daughter at school. 
I will think twice before posting on MDC again. I feel attacked, and it feels unwarranted. I can understand someone saying, "I think it is impolite to drop in without calling first". Fine, your right. But the severity of most of these posts I find excessive and downright wierd coming from this group of "attached parents".

purslaine · Nov 16, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by catinthehat <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279563/concerning-teacher-behaviors#post_16049466"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I DID confront dd's teacher at the conferences sevral weeks ago about several things dd had told me about and she TOTALLY denied all of them. So, I am left with the options of A. teacher is lying, or B. dd is lying. I know my child, and I do believe she can exagerate sometimes, but she doesn't make things up and pretend to be cry about them. So, what would you do? 
The first time I met the teacher, my intution said "uh oh". And every experience I have had with her since then has reenforced that feeling. I wanted to go into the classroom and have a kind, welcoming interaction with her, I DON'T LIKE drama or confrontation(especially not with someone who seems to dislike me so much!). But alas, she verbally attacked me in front of my child because I came in to her classroom without warning. Again, it is school policy parents are allowed to do this, and I think this is the reason for the policy, don't you?
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The truth is you cannot change a teacher, any more than you can change any adult. You may complain, she may get discipIined, etc, but all of this takes time and what is happenning to your DD in the meantime? I doubt she is going to stop doing something or have a personality about face because you say so. It is also possible that you have taken an irrational dislike to the teacher (just saying! I really do not know the situation)...but in any event it does not matter. The bottom line is you do not trust her and you seriously question how she runs the classroom.
 
I would work on changing my DD's class or school. 
 
Hang in there! School drama sucks.

karne · Nov 16, 2010

I need to say that I do not think that a parent's need/right to have total access to their child during the school day, during instructional time, supercedes the rights of the other children in the classroom. I send my child to school to be in school with the teacher, not in class with student's parents. I think it is amazing that folks don't get how hard teachers work to maintain the focus and rhythym of their classes, esp. in the early grades. I can't imagine walking in unannounced, anywhere, and expecting someone to stop instruction, acknowledge me and provide seating. The teacher's job is to teach, not take care of the needs of the parents during the day.
 
I find all of this a little underhanded, and lacking in respect. If you need to see the child that badly, take them out of school, and let the classroom be for the children's needs, not the parent's.

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