[AntoninBeGonin]

I hear so much about people choosing to circumcise because it is culturally conditioned. What exactly does that mean, though? I was born in the southern US and lived there until I moved to the midwest at 22. Both areas of the country are known for having high rates of infant circumcision, but it is not something I've ever heard discussed by anyone. (Well, I bring it up from time to time, but I don't count.) I didn't grow up hearing my dad, or my cousin, or our neighbors talk about how much they love their circumcised penis. Does anyone grow up with that?

Every sexual partner I've had has been circumised. In fact, until I met my husband I had the vague idea that the term circumcised meant boys had something like a skin-tag hanging from the penis that needs to be removed at birth so they can urinate. That's pretty f'ing stupid when you get down to it, and it shows just how much thought I really put into the issue. When I found out that circumcision is completely unnecessary I was immediately opposed to the practice. It didn't matter at all to me that some men are circumcised, or that all the men I knew at the time were circumised. All that mattered was the knowledge that it is an unnecessary procedure being forced onto unconsenting persons. How is this different for other people? Why is it that I can grow up, changing the diapers and giving baths to a little circumcised boy, date circumcised men, and the very moment I learn the truth about circumcision I become completely opposed to it, while other people, in similar situations to mine, continue to lie to themselves and say it's no big deal?

I guess in short, what I'm trying to ask is, how does cultural conditioning really play a part? Especially with a body part that is hidden from public view, and in a country that is known for it's lack of sexual discussion and information?

~Nay

 

[mothragirl]

when i mentioned that i would never circ a son to my friends they flipped! it's gross, dirty, etc. because they had been taught that. cultural conditioning means that our culture see's a circed penis as normal and healthy.

 

[AntoninBeGonin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothragirl when i mentioned that i would never circ a son to my friends they flipped! it's gross, dirty, etc. because they had been taught that. cultural conditioning means that our culture see's a circed penis as normal and healthy.

I just think it's strange people react like that. To me, a circumcised penis was just a penis. No big deal. Then I learned it wasn't necessary so I was instantly opposed. **shrugs** It's just odd to me that even though no one (that I've ever met) talks about the greatness of circumcised penises, or goes around with their circumcised penis hanging out, it's supposed to be so ingrained.

But then again, everyone tells me I'm weird.

~Nay

 

[eightyferrettoes]

I've always heard intactness, when it was referred to AT ALL, discussed in a negative light. "Hoodies" "cheesy-foreskin (insert ethnic slur here) dick"

: "wrinkly turtlenecks," etc. You have to keep in mind that I have always lived and worked with military guys and, till I became a mom, was usually talked to like "one of the boys."

So when I found out I was having a boy myself, suddenly I realized I needed to look into this circ business and get to the bottom of it. I started with asking people's opinions in my little social circle.

EVERYONE I asked about it assured me "you'll want to get that taken care of, believe me!" while nodding sagely about the inherent nastiness of uncut penises.

Not till I started reading on the internet (and boy did it feel weird to look at penis photos in the university computer lab!) did I realize that my first boyfriend was, in fact, intact. And that sealed the deal for me. I'd always known that all the other boyfriends I'd had were somehow lacking in the skin department, but somehow hadn't connected that idea to circumcision status. I know I was always disappointed when I started foreplay to find that there was just nothing there, but my mind just hadn't made the leap, even after asking one of my previous lovers about the subject. He never really understood what I was asking, I don't think.

Makes me want to ask all the sage advice-givers if they had ever even SEEN an intact penis.

So, yeah. I think there's a lot of cultural conditioning out there, if by that you mean "repeating folk 'wisdom' without question."

I wonder sometimes if people who promote circ on message boards aren't actually intact.

 

[momma2girls]

Well you see the problem is you think too much! And you like to do anything that is NOT 'normal' by our society's standards. That is your problem.

Well that is what I have been told my problem is anyway not just about circ but a lot of things.

Andrea

 

[eightyferrettoes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by momma2girls Well you see the problem is you think too much!

Yeah, lol, there is a LOT of careful non-thinking going on out there.

But really, without the Internet, I'd have circed DS. And I would never have known why I was able to enjoy my first lover in ways I couldn't with my subsequent partners. I just never would have had the information to connect the dots, IYKWIM.

There's just not much info out there in the culture to promote intactness.

Doctors' brochures are totally, totally evasive and dishonest, your family and friends all assure you that circumcision is critically necessary... even if you made a trip to the library, you wouldn't find any real information about it.

The Net is really an amazing force in all of this.

 

[momma2girls]

ITA I can only hope that if my girls had been boys that I would have had the forethought to look into it before having it done but I'm not completely sure I would have.

 

[trmpetplaya]

It's so conditioned that people don't even think twice about it. Or even once, for that matter

: Like my mom told me about my brothers "It's just what they do to baby boys" Oh. Ok. It has to be done. All right. Of course I was like 11 years old and didn't really care THAT much so that satisfied me for the moment. I honestly had never heard anything negative about intact penises until I was already married to one so that was never an issue for me

To me, culturally conditioned means that something is accepted without question. Circumcision is still ingrained in our culture though one (slight) good thing about all those bogus AIDS articles is that people are actually talking about it so it's not quite as taboo at least... tiny silver lining in a big black ugly evil cloud of DOOM

: (ramble, ramble).

I really really hope my daughter(s) find intact men!!! I wonder if I will be able to restrain myself from asking every boyfriend about his circ status

: I have nightmares about grandchildren being circumcised because I DIDN'T ask about a bf's circ status... It's past my curfew, I better go to bed... I have a nasty cough that won't go away too, maybe staying up late on MDC has something to do with it

:

love and peace.

 

[Galatea]

The internet has been huge for getting all sorts of strange info. And I think it means that you and me and most of us are just more open-minded, or able to think outside the box.

 

[jessjgh1]

Quote:

In fact, until I met my husband I had the vague idea that the term circumcised meant boys had something like a skin-tag hanging from the penis that needs to be removed at birth so they can urinate. That's pretty f'ing stupid when you get down to it, and it shows just how much thought I really put into the issue

Nay, I agree with you and can say I had the same vague notion and was pretty immediatly horrified by circ.

But even that vague notion is an indication that we were somehow culturally conditioned and subtle influenced. And then you hear negative things and have some vague notion of needing to clean etc.

It all didn't make sense and looking back I feel dumb about it.

What's even worse is how awfully complicated figuring out how to 'clean' a week old's penis would be-- I can't believe people think they have to do anything. I'm glad I knew this was untrue but Id have to hope that I relaly would have 'realized' when I saw what an intact penis looked like that leave alone was the ONLY thing to do that made sense

Jessica

 

[Tinijocaro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmpetplaya I really really hope my daughter(s) find intact men!!! I wonder if I will be able to restrain myself from asking every boyfriend about his circ status : I have nightmares about grandchildren being circumcised because I DIDN'T ask about a bf's circ status... It's past my curfew, I better go to bed... I have a nasty cough that won't go away too, maybe staying up late on MDC has something to do with it : love and peace.

I can see it now:

We set up an internet intact dating service. I've got two here in Buffalo, NY! I also have two daughters who have grown up seeing intact penises as the norm, so where are all the intact boys? Maybe we could start an intact registry, so when are dd's become interested in boys, they can check to see if they are on the registry!

 

[Revamp]

Culturally conditioned in this instance means seeing a naked baby, fresh from the womb and saying "Wow! He is PERFECT! ...Uh...Well...He will be once we have had that part of him sliced away..."

 

[MommytoB]

Culturally conditioned is either their city state do it so it's the normal thing because that's just what our city/state does or that's what our family does .

To me I never heard of weird names of foreskin til i got on parenting boards and to me I didn't even know of foreskin all I knew was that men and boys in my family were circumcized until i met my x.

 

[AXEius]

I think this is a very good question. On a day to day basis, circumcision is not discussed. But when i look back and think about anytime circumcsioin was EVER discussed in the 8000+ days between my birth and the birth of my daughter, anything that was said about circumcision was either about how it HAD to be done, just what WAS done, disgust for those who were not circumcised, and derogotory jokes on television about being "uncircumcised". So all though very little information was ever given to me about circumcision 99.99 percent of it was that circumcision was normal, what had to be done,and neccessary. Anything about not being circumcised was disgust, sympathy,gross or refered to as being abnormal. SO,,,,,why wouldnt someone feel that circumcision is normal, healthy and what has to be done? Because not once was it discussed what actually happened during a circumcision, what was lost, or what the negative consequences where. Not once was it discussed that it was normal for a boy to be born with a foreskin and KEEP IT. The inherent benefits of a foreskin where never discussed or the fact that women also had foreskins but where not removed at birth for so called health reasons or the parents disgust for their daughters foreskin. All that being said, i have always had a lingering questioning of circumcison. I believe that was because of my own personal problems with cirucmcision and the grief it caused me. it was explained that circumcision caused my problems but not once was it ever explained to me WHY I had to endure these problems of circumcison. I guess i can see that a person who never had to endure these problems or at least seen them first hand or even heard of them (it actually seems quite common ,though, perhaps mentally denied as a result of circumcision) would not question circumcison and accept it "blindly". Once i finally found out the aspects of circumcision which where never discussed such as WHAT actually happened and WHY it was done, i was appaulled , disgusted, saddened and highly angered. So that is why i cannot identify with the thought process that would allow someone to still support circumcision after learning its aspects that are never duscussed.

 

[LavenderMae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trmpetplaya It's so conditioned that people don't even think twice about it. Or even once, for that matter :

I think this is it!!! I remember when my sister left my nephew intact and how my uncle (he is only 4 yrs older than me) , dh and dh's friends were all kind of laughing about it. My uncle called my nephew the headless horse man.

: That was the first time I thought anything about circ. I don't know if I even realized it was done before then. I was 17 at the time. My dh now is very anti-circ , honestly none of us knew what the hell we were talking about. OH and my uncle has a botched circ to boot (my mom recently told me that).

 

[Revamp]

Ack...In that case it sounds very much like rechanneled envy to me.

How bad a botch was it?

 

[myfairbabies]

Why do some people question and do their own research (with regards to anything) and others are sheeples? I don't know. I babysat a lot as a child, and every single penis I saw was circ'd. My boys cousins were all circ'd. My brother was. I have no idea if my dad is or not. My sisters' boys are circ'd. My dh is circ'd. I have never seen an intact penis irl even though I have 3 nephews that are intact (dh's sisters, never met them).

My friend told me how her sister didn't circ her boys and how gross that was and how she had to clean it (this friend was young and a virgin, so I doubt she had ever seen one before, besides a baby). I remember when she told me that, I thought, why is it gross? Why would someone leave her son's intact if is was so awful? I had no idea what an intact penis looked like. I think when it is all they see (a circ'd) then anything different is not normal, therefore weird and gross. I don't know, I'm just glad I saw the light.

 

[myfairbabies]

My dh didn't even know he was circ'd until he was 14. They were talking about biblical circ in sunday school, and he was like "they cut the end off?!?!" And his older sisters said "hello, you were circ'd!" dh "I was?" sisters "yeah." He didn't want to talk about it after that so I don't think he ever knew what was cut off until he watched the video i showed him.

 

[LavenderMae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revamp Ack...In that case it sounds very much like rechanneled envy to me. How bad a botch was it?

I'm not really sure , my mom just said it did not look right (compared to other circed penises) or heal right. She was a teen when my uncle was born and because of how bad it looked and how much it hurt him she knew then that if she ever had a son he would not be circed (she ended up having two girls though). Although she never even mentioned this fact to me until after I was anti-circ. I wonder if she would have tried to talk me out of it if I had wanted to circ. Also when she had to witness two circs in nursing school it REALLY reinforced how she felt about circ.

 

[Revamp]

The personal affect that this issue has on people always fascinates me...

It is equally horrified when viewed either as a statistic (over a million a year) or as something which impacts on individuals.