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I am curious whether my choices, genes or lifestyle resulted in DS (14 months) having cavities.<br><br>
I am a vegetarian and DS is mostly vegan (until recently). We live in a cold climate area, old house, have a dog, maybe this is tmi - but, my breastmilk has excess lipase in it, nurse to sleep and on demand, excessively given Hylands to DS... And, I have a yuck mouth (lots of cavities) as well. DS also has shown an intolerance to milk and soy products.<br><br>
DH has not had a cavity since highschool. Yes, I know about strep mutans - but, why doesn't DH have cavities. We do kiss. Notwithstanding, I have always been super careful with DS to not share food or utensils.<br><br>
So, with all that, does anyone have anything in common with us? So that we could point to that and say, "AHA! That's why he has cavities."
 

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Dr. Weston Price found a link between nutrition and cavities. His book is now out of copyright protection and can be read online. It includes pictures. Basically, he travelled the world to study what people ate and found that when people switched to modern diets (white sugar, white flour) and moved away from their traditional nutrient dense diets, they got cavities and their children were born with narrowed palates which led to crowded teeth. He found that all the traditional diets he studied were high in fat soluable vitamins A and D and another nutrient he called "X Factor" which nowadays is believed to be vitamin K. Fat soluable vitamins is the key here - we can only get those from animal fats. Vitamins from fruits and veggies are water soluable and must be converted by the body and are poorly absorbed.<br><br><a href="http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html" target="_blank">http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib.../pricetoc.html</a><br><br>
The Price Pottenger Foundation is another source of interesting info. I recommend reading about Pottenger's Cats at a minimum.<br><br><a href="http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/Articles/articles_list.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/Art...icles_list.htm</a><br><br>
Harvard University recently conducted a study that is in line with Dr. Price's research on nutrition during pregnancy. Here is the article explaining the findings. Its called "You Are What Your Mother Ate":<br><br><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4017-you-are-what-your-mother-ate-suggests-study.html" target="_blank">http://www.newscientist.com/article/...sts-study.html</a><br><br>
Also check out the curing cavities with nutrition thread here on this forum.<br><br>
HTH
 

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I am an advocate of nutrition and Xylitol. But if nutrition were the complete answer than I would have to wonder why my son's teeth have been 'healed' by the use of Xylitol, and in just a few months.<br><br>
And why my teeth feel better, look better and cleaner!<br><br>
You need to read all the research on <a href="http://www.zellies.com" target="_blank">www.zellies.com</a>, <a href="http://www.xlear.com" target="_blank">www.xlear.com</a> and <a href="http://www.epicdental.com" target="_blank">www.epicdental.com</a> among many others, and you will get a clearer picture of what goes on in our mouths to allow cavities.<br><br>
And yes, nutrition plays a BIG major part. But I am so thankful for Xylitol.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lunapier</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10711090"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am curious whether my choices, genes or lifestyle resulted in DS (14 months) having cavities.<br><br>
I am a vegetarian and DS is mostly vegan (until recently). We live in a cold climate area, old house, have a dog, maybe this is tmi - but, my breastmilk has excess lipase in it, nurse to sleep and on demand, <b>excessively given Hylands to DS</b>... And, I have a yuck mouth (lots of cavities) as well. DS also has shown an intolerance to milk and soy products.<br><br>
DH has not had a cavity since highschool. Yes, I know about strep mutans - but, why doesn't DH have cavities. We do kiss. Notwithstanding, I have always been super careful with DS to not share food or utensils.<br><br>
So, with all that, does anyone have anything in common with us? So that we could point to that and say, "AHA! That's why he has cavities."</div>
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We have recently been thinking of the homeopathic sugar tablets being the problem.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saving_grace</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10718436"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Fat soluable vitamins is the key here - we can only get those from animal fats. Vitamins from fruits and veggies are water soluable and must be converted by the body and are poorly absorbed.</div>
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It's my understanding that vitamins A D E K are all fat-soluble and are not acquired through only animal fats. Vit A can be found in a variety of orange-colored veggies and broccoli... We get most of our Vit D through sunlight. We can get K through leafy greens, Vit E can be acquired through vegetable oils, some leafy greens and wheat germ. Am I misunderstanding something?<br><br>
I'll have to check out those links as I'm always interested in learning more about nutrition. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
For the original poster--<br>
My DD is 7.5 yo and has never had a single cavity. She nursed (including nighttime and to sleep--always needed the nipple to fall asleep LOL) until she was almost 4yo. She always drank a lot of filtered water which my previous dentist told me was great for reducing the acid in her mouth. My DH has great teeth. Me--not so much. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> I would have to guess that DD got my DH's genes. Other info related to DD (which don't necessarily have anything to do w/her dental health, but if you're searching for connections, I'll just share our whole life story, LOL) include: she is completely unvaxed, but I did get that darned Vit K shot at birth; I had a healthy pg and natural birth experience; my parents don't have great teeth, but my ILs seem to be pretty good; DD didn't have any dairy or juice until she was about 2yo; didn't give her any fluoride treatments (at the dental office) or fluoride toothpaste until she was about 5yo; I'm not a vegetarian, but lead a mostly organic, whole foods lifestyle (I don't eat beef);I thought DD might have some food sensitivities, so I kept certain foods to a minimum early on; we lived in Colorado until she was about 5.<br><br>
Don't beat yourself up. You're doing the best you can. We can't control everything (pm me if you want to know how I got a hard lesson on that one!) so just continue to nourish your DS and lead a healthy lifestyle. That's all you can do. (((hug)))<br><br>
cindi
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>luv2bamommy2</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10719857"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am an advocate of nutrition and Xylitol. But if nutrition were the complete answer than I would have to wonder why my son's teeth have been 'healed' by the use of Xylitol, and in just a few months.<br><br>
And why my teeth feel better, look better and cleaner!<br><br>
You need to read all the research on <a href="http://www.zellies.com" target="_blank">www.zellies.com</a>, <a href="http://www.xlear.com" target="_blank">www.xlear.com</a> and <a href="http://www.epicdental.com" target="_blank">www.epicdental.com</a> among many others, and you will get a clearer picture of what goes on in our mouths to allow cavities.<br><br>
And yes, nutrition plays a BIG major part. But I am so thankful for Xylitol.</div>
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I hope that happens with us! Please send us your good vibes.<br><br>
We have gone dental regimen/xylitol crazy. Starting with spry, spiffies (during the night-time feedings (yeh, I am nut case), MI paste and finishing up with Tom's flouride free. Right now, I am chewing xylitol gum (DS is too little to chew gum). We are also unvaxed and drink well water (so, there are not many outside chemical influences).<br><br>
I think that I will research more on the nutrition. Thank you, saving_grace for the links.<br><br>
I just feel that the research on cavities in children is so incomplete (as is most things in life). I wish I could have an answer and say, "aha!" And, then work like crazy on the remedy.
 

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I highly recommend you read Weston A Price's books or get on the foundation website to see how lifestyle and diet are related to dental health. You may unknowingly have a predisposition to dental caries (cavities) because of some malabsorption problems in your intestines. However, I think it would be more related to diet and sunlight exposure. You need to be supplementing cod liver oil for vitamin D in the case that your family cannot get adequate sunlight. also, vegetarian diet does not automatically equal healthy diet and sometimes not eating animal products leads one to lean towards over-consumption of sugars which can contribute to dental caries. I am not an exper, but again, I encourage you to look at Weston A Price's information even if you are not a Traditional Foods type of family.
 

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I'm 26 (almost 27) and have never had a cavity. I have two sisters, none of us had cavities as children. One sister got one as an adult though.<br><br>
We were breastfed. As young children we ate very little prepackaged food, my mom made almost everything from scratch (even noodles!) We very very rarely got anything with sugar in it. She also did a lot of homeopathic stuff with us, we were not vaccinated and didn't go to the Dr. much. I'm not positive there's a link, but I would imagine so.
 

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When my now six yearold was three, her pediatric dentist wanted her to go under general anesthesia and have 9 cavities filled, including two crowns placed. I was mortified and got a second opinion, which agreed with the first.So I went ahead with that extensive work, and se was fine. So then my next child comes along and I decide to take her to a different pediatric dentist with a more laid back approach, he would put nitrous on her and fill her cavities a little at a time. Meanwhile, older daughter had all ehr work done at one time, and sealants put on, with no further probs. Now she is six and her sixyear molar has erupted, and surprise surprise there is a cavity in it already. I decided to take my now four year old to the more agressive anesthesia lady dentist, and she says (guess what!) she has extensive decay, needs like 8 crowns, 4 pulpotomies, etc. (My oldest daughter is 9 and has never had a cavity), I then decide while in the office to just have her peek in my 19 month olds mouth, and guess what, it too is cavity ridden. She went under anesthesia this morning and had five(!) crowns placed and two pulpotomies and an extraction. It was terrible, horrible, I;'m glad its over, I am still nursing her, but I want some answers. We have candy occasionally but we are good about their brushing and flossing, but the dentist always makes me feel ashamed. (probably cuz my teeth were so poor growing up, and we were always made to feel it was our own fault somehow). The dentist felt I should wean her but everything I read says otherwise, and I told her that. I thought it might be a combination of genetics (the enamel you inherit), vitamin D, (your body doesnt produce more, I was preg over winter months with the 3 poor enameled children), and perhaps my consumption of diet soda during the last 3 pregnancies. I will go read those studies and am glad to have found this site. I am worried about 4 yearolds upcoming dental surgery.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>NaturalMamma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10729545"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It's my understanding that vitamins A D E K are all fat-soluble and are not acquired through only animal fats. Vit A can be found in a variety of orange-colored veggies and broccoli... We get most of our Vit D through sunlight. We can get K through leafy greens, Vit E can be acquired through vegetable oils, some leafy greens and wheat germ. Am I misunderstanding something?</div>
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Vitamin A is not in vegetables. Beta Carotene in veg can be converted to retinol (true vit A) at a ratio of 20:1 or 12:1 in adults and upwards to 45:1 in children or people with gut damage and other conversion problems (including vit and mineral deficiencies).<br><br>
Which means... that one carrot, <b>if</b> converted optimally, can only provide a small portion of the RDA of vitamin A. And if you believe that the RDA is an adequate minimum for good health I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
Vitamin D has been shown to have many factors influencing its production and absorption by the body. These can include:<br><br>
-where you live (northern US you can only make it half the year or less due to angle of sun).<br>
-sunscreen usage and time of day and amount of skin exposed.<br>
-the type of fats you eat, cholesterol is essential for vit. D synthesis in skin.<br><br>
A recent study on adults in Hawaii showed something like half are vit. D deficient despite having an average of 20 hours in sun. Humans were designed to get D from both food and sun.<br><br>
Vitamin E, yes nuts and whole grains are good sources, I know less about animal vs. vegetable with this nutrient.<br><br>
Vitamin K is very interesting, the vegetarian sources (such as natto and cheese) are actually produced by bacteria. Leafy green veg source of K for the human are not well absorbed by our guts unlike other mammals such as the cow who has a different digestive system.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kellyjoco</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10770011"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">and perhaps my consumption of diet soda during the last 3 pregnancies.</div>
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The phosphoric acid in soda is horrible for your mineral balance.
 

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It also seems to me that the breastfeeding community downplays the absolute necessity of vitamin D supplementation for the breastfed infant... and instead quotes sunshine as being adequate without studies to support such. It makes me very angry that rickets is the test of D deficiency... rickets is the very worse end of the spectrum! You can still have numerous effects from low vit. D and its necessary roles in regulating calcium and phosphorus in the body w/o having rickets.<br><br>
Recent studies out of Harvard show that a mother needs to be consuming 6,000 IU of vitamin D (30x the RDA) per day in order to transfer "enough" D thru breastmilk. This is 2 tablespoons of high vitamin cod liver oil. I'm sure the fact that most women are deficient in D as shown with blood testing plays a factor. As with the infants liver stores of D at birth.<br><br><b>Up to 70% Americans Vit D Deficient</b><br><a href="http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/v...deficiency.htm</a><br><br>
Vitamin D is also unique in that it's a hormone as well as a vitamin... it regulates gene expression too. So when you say tooth health is genetic, that doesn't mean vit. D does not play a large role as well. In addition to other genetic influences, a concept which is very interesting to me.
 

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You know I'm beginning to wonder if there is a relationship to the dairy/soy intolerence. My dd had the same thing until 18 months old and now she has some problem teeth. Neither dh nor I have any cavities and that was true even before we became good brushers/flossers, so I'm not sure I totally get the whole "strep mutans" thing since our dd does have some cavities. Of course, our dd also nurses a lot at night and the ped dentist we took her to blamed her weak enamel on that. I just don't know either . . .
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JaneS</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10772748"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It also seems to me that the breastfeeding community downplays the absolute necessity of vitamin D supplementation for the breastfed infant... and instead quotes sunshine as being adequate without studies to support such. It makes me very angry that rickets is the test of D deficiency... rickets is the very worse end of the spectrum! You can still have numerous effects from low vit. D and its necessary roles in regulating calcium and phosphorus in the body w/o having rickets.<br><br>
Recent studies out of Harvard show that a mother needs to be consuming 6,000 IU of vitamin D (30x the RDA) per day in order to transfer "enough" D thru breastmilk. This is 2 tablespoons of high vitamin cod liver oil. I'm sure the fact that most women are deficient in D as shown with blood testing plays a factor. As with the infants liver stores of D at birth.<br><br><b>Up to 70% Americans Vit D Deficient</b><br><a href="http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/v...deficiency.htm</a><br><br>
Vitamin D is also unique in that it's a hormone as well as a vitamin... it regulates gene expression too. So when you say tooth health is genetic, that doesn't mean vit. D does not play a large role as well. In addition to other genetic influences, a concept which is very interesting to me.</div>
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I really agree with you. I was really against giving Vit D supplements, after reading that I could give my baby adequate amounts of sunshine and that it would be able to store throughout the winter months.<br>
Because I surrounded myself with most things 'natural' I kept hearing the same thing...breastmilk IS the perfect food, no matter what 'they' say. It felt nice to believe that breastmilk was perfect...but I'm realizing that it's not that breastmilk isn't perfect, its that our indoor lives aren't perfect, and unless we are outdoors ALL day, we won't be able to get sufficent Vit D.<br><br>
We started giving ds Vit D drops at around 18 months. I'd love to give him CLO, but he has so many allergies, that wouldn't be an option.
 

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Wow--what's the earliest recommended age to supplement with vitamin d drops ( I have a 3 month old and fervently hope to avoid decay in this kid!)? Do they have other yucky ingrediants in the drops?
 

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As far as I know, you start at birth. My drops are from Whole Foods...doesn't look like there's much in them. And they don't taste like anything, just water.
 

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Oh!~biy we are in Northern CA and getting lots of sun now, ds is very fair, if I expose him to sunshine everyday, like doing his tummy time near a window, I should be able to skip the drops, right? One of the links from this thread went to an article where it said we can make like 20,000iu with just a little sun expsure each day...?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Wildflower</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10777825"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Oh!~biy we are in Northern CA and getting lots of sun now, ds is very fair, if I expose him to sunshine everyday, like doing his tummy time near a window, I should be able to skip the drops, right? One of the links from this thread went to an article where it said we can make like 20,000iu with just a little sun expsure each day...?</div>
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Your DC needs to be outside exposed to the sun.
 
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