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cross posted in health and healing also.<br>
so my dh is circ and he wants our son to be circ. we are due in about 9 weeks and still haven't really come to an agreement. he thinks that no circ will cause more infections but he won't look at any research that i do and i think really just wants him to be circ because he is and most other people are. here in the south and not circing your son is unheard of. for some reason he is trying to equate circing with baptism. he keeps saying well wwjd. Jesus was circ. he likes to make crazy comments like that i don't think its an actually argument for circing. it just frustrates me that he won't really listen to me about why i don't want him circ and won't read any research about it. he says why when im just going to make the decision any ways. i don't know where he gets that. its not like i've made any big decisions with out him. i don't know why he would think i would make this one with out him. maybe its just becasue i bring it up so often?<br>
so anyways dads if you are circ was your first thought to get him circ? if so what was it that changed your mind?
 

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My husband is circ, but we are not religious. My husband simply thought about it and said "foreskins must have evolved for a reason" and that was that. But I would imagine if you're religious you could say that boys are born with a foreskin because divine power X made them that way.<br><br>
But more important to me, all health and religious issues aside, is that it should not be a parent's choice to make. It is your son's choice. If your son wants to look like "everyone else" and have part of his penis cut off then he can consent to it himself when he is older. It is his human right to not have people removing healthy body parts from him without his permission.<br><br>
I would simply not sign any consent forms, write "I do NOT consent to circumcision" or "do NOT circumsize" on every form, diaper, etc. and make sure baby's pediatrician knows that you do not want him circ'd.<br><br>
Have you tried asking your husband to watch something like the Penn & Teller video about circumcision? I know my husband won't read anything, or even listen to much I try to read TO him, but he'll watch tv <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> .
 

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My husband couldn't conceive of inflicting trauma like that. There were other reasons, too, but those are especially personal. He was circ'd at birth. Once he held DS, he asked, "HOW can they DO that?" He doesn't blame or fault his parents, but circumcision is not something that fits with our family values.<br><br>
He was somewhat ambivalent until he read The Continuum Concept and I had him watch the Penn & Teller vid and watch a circ vid and read a graphic explanation of adhesions being forcibly separated. If the AP/continuum philosophy hadn't changed his mind, the adhesions alone would have.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">he thinks that no circ will cause more infections but he won't look at any research</td>
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Then his opinion is invalid - tell him that right now. Until he can make an educated argument, his argument is not valid. IMO, flip the tables. Say "Okay, I'm willing to hear your side of the argument, please bring me the research that will show me that circ is a very good thing and then we'll talk about doing it again." All of it is debunkable by very valid sources so don't be too worried there, we're here for that <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">he keeps saying well wwjd. Jesus was circ.</td>
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Jesus was Jewish so yes, it's completely logical for him to be circumcised. But the first Christians? They were NOT circumcised. Had Jesus had a son he would NOT have circumcised him. So there went that argument. In fact, they were never circumcised as a *religious* group as it's a purely *cultural* tradition.<br><br>
The real reason your husband wants your son cut:<br><a href="http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html" target="_blank">http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html</a><br><br>
Don't show that to him though.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SaraBravo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9002662"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">he thinks that no circ will cause more infections</div>
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Let's pretend for a moment this was true...that still wouldn't be a reason to cut it off...will your husband want to cut off his son's eyelids on the off chance he gets pink eye? Put tubes in his ears at birth in case he gets ear infections? Remove his fingernails to prevent hangnails? Would he like you to get your labia removed to cut down on female infections? No, this is all absurd. If he were to get a UTI or infection of the foreskin then it can be treated with antibiotics, simple.
 

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Actually the circ rate in the south isnt total.<br><br>
Stats by State <a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/staterates2004/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/statisti...taterates2004/</a><br><br>
By region <a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/</a><br>
Circ rate in the south is around 58.5% and falling since that was back in 04' it is probably closer to 55% now so your son would be far from unusual down here.<br><br><br><br>
My dh was the same way wanting any son circed because he is but I put my foot down and said no way. It wasnt my body or dh's to decide it belongs to my son and the default was leaving him intact. Plus I could never inflict that kind of pain on a child for cosmetic reasons.<br><br>
Have you shown him the video of a circ? Have you watched that video? Anyone who can watch that video and still circ would have to have a screw loose IMO.
 

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Hi there - I think the Penn and Teller video is very good for guys (it convinced my brother to leave his son intact), but if your dh would be offended by off-colour humour, it might not be for him.<br><br>
However, I've bumped a thread called 'Why Was I Circumcised' Michael Schapp ask his mother...<br><br>
That has a link to a great video about circumcision - made from the point of view of a circumcised guy. I think it is excellent, and might be just the thing your dh could relate to (not too heavy!).<br><br>
Good luck with talking to him...this is a decision about your son's penis, so it should be your son who makes the decision about what he'd like his penis to look like/how he'd like it to function/etc. I know you know that, but sometimes Moms can feel like they are 'making this decision' by themselves when they refuse to let their dhs have their son circumcised.<br><br>
But leaving your son intact is the default - by leaving him as he was born (with all of his healthy, functional body parts intact), you are just doing the right thing - not violating his rights to his own body.<br><br>
Which can take a lot of courage and determination in some parts of the States, sadly - so good for you! And please come back here for any support/information you need.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Fi.</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9003075"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
The real reason your husband wants your son cut:<br><a href="http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html" target="_blank">http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html</a><br><br>
Don't show that to him though.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br><br>
Definitely read this. (But it's just for YOU to read and think about. Not to show your dh.)
 

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When we found out our baby was a boy, I said "I guess we'll have to discuss circ now" He was confused by that, like most people he thought it was just "one of those things" that happen after birth...akin to taking the baby's footprints. I calmly explained that not it's most certainly NOT a given, and there are in fact some big debates about it.<br><br>
Then I sat him down at the computer with a video of a circ being done and told him that if he could sit through that, then be the one to hold our son's hand while they do that to him, and then also be the one to change every diaper while it heals--putting the vaseline and gauze on-- then *maybe* I would consider it.<br><br>
That clammed him up pretty quick!<br><br>
I've found that my husband doesn't respond to starts and figures and studies very well. It's all way too overwhelming to him (as it is to me sometimes) He also can't quite wrap his brain around the idea that American's have been intentionally doing something WRONG to generations of babies. He thinks that if it really wasn't worth it, the medical community would have put a stop to it by now. He doesn't buy into any conspiracy theories.<br><br>
BUT, he is logical. I was able to discuss biology and evolution with him and he responded to that. It also helped my case when I told him that if for some reason our son needed a circ at any age other than newborn, the hospital would treat it as a true surgery, with general anesthetic and post op pain control. He found it disturbing that they don't do that to newborns.<br><br>
Anyway...it'll depend on what your husband will respond to. Understand your man...know where his thought process is coming from. Then you can swing him around to what you know in your heart is right.<br><br>
PS: I've never heard of a marriage falling apart over a circ debate, so hold your own!!
 

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Chronological history of the "reasons" people used to justify male genital mutilation (MGM):<br><br><a href="http://www.icgi.org/2007/04/medicalization-of-circumcision-an-online-slide-show/" target="_blank">http://www.icgi.org/2007/04/medicali...ne-slide-show/</a>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>veganf</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9003128"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Let's pretend for a moment this was true...that still wouldn't be a reason to cut it off...will your husband want to cut off his son's eyelids on the off chance he gets pink eye? Put tubes in his ears at birth in case he gets ear infections? Remove his fingernails to prevent hangnails? Would he like you to get your labia removed to cut down on female infections? No, this is all absurd. If he were to get a UTI or infection of the foreskin then it can be treated with antibiotics, simple.</div>
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I like your wording. I'm gonna use it on my sister (due to have a boy around Chirstmastime.)
 

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<span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>First off, I'm not trying to start any debate. NO DEBATE.</b></span><br><br>
I had a ton of fun with the bible this afternoon, and here's what I found (just as a little wwjd ammunition, if you need it!)<br><br>
Acts 15:1-11<br><br>
Ok I love these 2...<br><br>
Romans 17:17-29 but really vs. 29 “Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart – it is spiritual and not literal."<br><br>
Galations 5:2 “Listen! I, Paul, am telling you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.”<br><br>
I also agree about NOT consenting. Write "I do not consent to circumcising my son" on Everything. Actually, Buy a pad of sticky notes, write it like 20 times and sticky everything and write it on the papers. Every paper. Height and weight, write it. Sticky note it to his forehead when they hand him to you (ok, wait till they clean him off<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">). Sticky it on the front and back of his bassinet.<br><br><br>
I really doubt it is a sticking point for your husband. And if it is, you have to decide if you want your husband enough to be with him after he cuts your perfect baby boy.<br><br><br>
Good job for thinking about and discussing it BEFORE the birth of you baby and have a blessed birth!<br><br>
eta Wow, this sounds harsh, I have nothing but hugs and sympathy for you. And I do really mean, blessing on you and yours!
 

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For my dh, watching a video opened the door. He saw how horrible it was, then he was willing to read the articles (or at least listen to me tell him about them). Now he tells all his friends how they should never circ
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>notyetamommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9005777"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">For my dh, watching a video opened the door. He saw how horrible it was, then he was willing to read the articles (or at least listen to me tell him about them). Now he tells all his friends how they should never circ</div>
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Us too. My dh was very adamant that ds would be circumcised, no matter how much info I gave him that it was unnecessary, until I made him see the video, and he finally admitted that he did not want to do that to our son.<br>
It was a major source of argument for us during my pregnancy, so I get how you feel. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I was prepared to make the decision not to circ regardless of what he wanted, but it really helped to have him on my side.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Microsoap</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9004349"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Chronological history of the "reasons" people used to justify male genital mutilation (MGM):<br><br><a href="http://www.icgi.org/2007/04/medicalization-of-circumcision-an-online-slide-show/" target="_blank">http://www.icgi.org/2007/04/medicali...ne-slide-show/</a></div>
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This is EXCELLENT information Microsoap! Its great for sharpening my arrows! ThankyouThankyouThankyou!<br><br><b>captivatedlife</b> I LOVE that you want to stick NO CIRC signs all over your baby, hospital bassinet and darn near everything!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Have you seen this site? It has a "Refusal Form" Doctors have to sign. And signs you can make stickers with!<br><a href="http://www.circumstitions.com/Refusal.html" target="_blank">http://www.circumstitions.com/Refusal.html</a><br><br>
Download the form in Word (*.doc) format... At the bottom of the page it has links for your options on how to print it out. I was going to do this tonight for my SIL, take it to Kinkos and print the signs on adhesive back paper making stickers, but she wrote me an e-mail moments ago saying that she has had enough information to make an informed decision and asked me politely not to send her anymore stuff. I'm really bummed. I wanted to send this to her. Oh well.
 

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I would tell him that if he refuses to look at any research then he forfeits the right to have any say in the decision. That's just the way it is. He can't decide for your son to have an unnecessary surgery without even researching it in any way. That's ridiculous.<br><br>
At the very least he needs to come up with a valid reason to have it done because your position is the default. You should not be having to defend leaving your son the way he's born. Your dh needs to be defending his position of wanting to chop a perfectly healthy bit of your child's genitals off for no reason whatsoever. The fact is that unless your son has frostbite, gangrene, or cancer of the foreskin AT BIRTH (I'm sure even your dh would agree that having those conditions at birth would be highly unlikely) then there is no reason.<br><br>
love and peace. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>trmpetplaya</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9008676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would tell him that if he refuses to look at any research then he forfeits the right to have any say in the decision. That's just the way it is. He can't decide for your son to have an unnecessary surgery without even researching it in any way. That's ridiculous.<br><br>
At the very least he needs to come up with a valid reason to have it done because your position is the default. You should not be having to defend leaving your son the way he's born. Your dh needs to be defending his position of wanting to chop a perfectly healthy bit of your child's genitals off for no reason whatsoever. The fact is that unless your son has frostbite, gangrene, or cancer of the foreskin AT BIRTH (I'm sure even your dh would agree that having those conditions at birth would be highly unlikely) then there is no reason.<br><br>
love and peace. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"></div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: and if he thinks this is to prevent stuff...then maybe he would consider removing your newborns son's breast tissue as well...as it would seriously reduce the risk of breast cancer and don't forget his appendix...he really doesn't need that either and he might someday have appendicitis...why not take care of his tonsils right away as well?<br><br>
I would agree with writing I DO NOT CONSENT on everything as well...there are also newborn onsies available with "Do Not Circumcise" and "Do Not Retract" on them.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Fyrestorm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9013053"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would agree with writing I DO NOT CONSENT on everything as well...there are also newborn onsies available with "Do Not Circumcise" and "Do Not Retract" on them.</div>
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Really? Where can I find that?<br><br>
~FW
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>fruitful womb</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9015261"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Really? Where can I find that?<br><br>
~FW</div>
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Cafe Press<br><br>
Here are a few<br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/endcircumcision" target="_blank">Shop</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.101448646/pNo_101448646/id_17054050/opt_/fpt____________CX_________K_______H/c_670/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.68537724/pNo_68537724/id_13762904/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_20516438/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_20509726/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_19610124/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_17649694/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_18946272/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/buy/circumcision/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_17976741/opt_/fpt_____________P/c_736/" target="_blank">Onesie</a><br><br>
There are a TON more...this is a good atart though. I didn't find it..but there is a really cute one that says "It's Whack to hack...leave me intact"
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Fyrestorm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9013053"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: and if he thinks this is to prevent stuff...then maybe he would consider removing your newborns son's breast tissue as well...as it would seriously reduce the risk of breast cancer and don't forget his appendix...he really doesn't need that either and he might someday have appendicitis...why not take care of his tonsils right away as well?<br><br>
I would agree with writing I DO NOT CONSENT on everything as well...there are also newborn onsies available with "Do Not Circumcise" and "Do Not Retract" on them.</div>
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haha funny you should say that about his appendix cause dh had to have his appendix removed when he was young.
 
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