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Hi everyone,<br>
I'm interested in hearing some thoughts from other homebirthing, extended breastfeeding, basically AP families. My husband and i are in the midst of a separation, have been in separate bedrooms for a year (a whole other story) and I staretd working evenings and weekends so we could feed our kids. Basically my husband puts our 3 kids to bed 5 days a week. They are 2 girls (9 adn 7 years old) adn a 3 year old son. Long story short, we have always been very open with our nudity, had a family bed forEVER, all my kids breastfed until they were at least 3, etc.. I recently discovered taht my husband has "massage night' with the kids, which they love. We used to massage them when they were babies, but have not so much as we have all become busier. I was in the room when this was happening one night and felt uncomfortable because my older daughter is 9 and was naked (not at all unusual in our house), but her body is starting to change and frankly, it made me uncomfortable. Not with my 7 year old and 3 year old, but with her. I told him it made me uncomfortable and asked him not to give her a full body massage with oil, he says I have a problem. It might be different if we got along, but we basically haven't talked aside form arguing for a year adn I feel like he is a stranger and felt an overwhelming protective instinct towards my children. anyone have any thoughts? can you recommend any books or websites about healthy sexual development and boundaries? I don't think there has been abuse here but I can't ignore my gut feelings. Anyone have hubbies who massage their older kids? Thanks, Lux
 

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My DD is only 3 and still gets massages from Daddy (although not totally naked...) so I don't really know the answer for older girls. I wonder, though, about your DD's feelings. At that age, I was so conscious about my body, etc. Is she comfortable with it? Rationally, I'd go with her comfort level. Emotionally, it seems a little weird to me, honestly.<br><br>
If you think the divorce will get nasty and there will be a custody battle, I would definitely be taking note of stuff like this to use to your benefit. Kind of slimey to do, I guess, but you have to protect yourself, YK?
 

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My kids are much younger than your two daughters, so take my two cents for what its worth...<br><br>
My opinion-If your dd would tell you if something wasn't right, I would just follow her lead. When she requests privacy or doesn't want massage anymore, take that as a cue.<br><br>
Don't know if this helps or not. Good luck mama!
 

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I would try to figure out if your dd is comfortable with this with out making her self conscience. What does HER instincts tell her.<br><br>
If you all have always been nude around each other she will be more comfortable about it than you. As you know not all nudity equal sexual.<br><br>
There is a fine line at this age/stage of development. Many men back out and quit touching their daughters in fear of it looking sexual. This can cause girls to feel "rejected" and/or more self consciences about their body's changes. I remember I was made more conscious about my changes when it was apparent my dad noticed I needed a bra.<br><br>
I wouldn't say NO massages but move towards clothed massages. Him doing this in front of you might be a clue that this was harmless touch. Something he has discovered "works" for him. Not all men are sexual predators. You might want to bring it up to him that other people could see this as wrong and that his dd is changing and might want to start having clothes on. I think your gut feeling needs to be listen to, it can be time for change. It also can be an awareness that males will start looking at your daughter differently. But you at the same time need to be aware that you could have put something sexual were it wasn’t.<br><br>
Yes, many 9 year olds have more modesty but not all and not in all cultures. Some times the child can be a living contradiction. My 7 year old loathes us in the bathroom while she is bathing but will hope at of the tub run around naked. She is in just her undies 90% of the time but will bring lotions to us and asked to be rubbed down (she has eczema). My 11 year old so is similar in contradictions.
 

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Moving this to Parents as Partners
 

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You said that the kids love it, and I think that's the key. During a time of upheaval in their family, they're getting physical and emotional connection to their dad. As long as he's willing to stay aware of the kids' feelings about it as they get older, I wouldn't make a big stink about it.
 

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My dd is nine and recently I have become much more aware of her need for clothes. it has just gotten to the point where she is not a little girl any more.<br><br>
I would feel very uncomfortable with her being massaged naked by her dad (or anyone for that matter). I would definitely suggest clothes.
 

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Mama trust YOUR instincts.<br><br>
My stepfather massaged me almost every night. It started with simple back rubs when I was eight. It ended with him touching my genitals when I was 12 and told my teacher. (after a year or so of wondering) Because it started when I was young, and I was traumatized by my parents I craved that closeness with a "parent." In the end I was led to believe that I caused him to do this.<br><br>
So reading your OP, I am sitting here bawling. It may be innocent, but naked and oil at nine years old is hitting too close to the bone.<br><br><br>
And yes, I have done infant massage on my children, am comfortable with my own nudity among others. My children get back rubs from both my husband and I, ( step dad) on top of their shirts, in a public room.<br><br>
If it makes you feel weird, it probably is.<br><br>
Edited to remove some stuff
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>boobybunny</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If it makes you feel weird, it probably is.</div>
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<br>
I'm glad you wrote this because the Original Post itself makes me feel weird.
 

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OK I'm back.<br><br>
I think it's really inapropriate to come to a new place and reveal such intimate details about your family/kids. If you are telling the truth, then it sounds like you also know the answer. It's completely inapropriate for an adult to engage in an activity such as you've described, with a child of nine or seven. There are thousands of ways to be close with kids in a healthy, innocent way without blurring the boundaries like that.<br><br>
I feel defensive of other members here and want to really dissuade anyone from sharing more intimate details of their own families in this thread. Something really doesn't sit right with me.
 

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Ditto.
 

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I have to agree with you, MJ. If someone I had no association with came onto my scene out of the blue and told a story of potentially sexual contact between a child and a parent, the last thing I would do would be to share stories of my own prepubescent sexual contact with an adult. I would definitely have my concerns about the OP's intent, KWIM?
 

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I'm agreeing with the wise women before me. I saw this thread earlier, and it left me feeling squicky. I mean, common sense would serve well here. Grown men should not be massaging their naked pre-pubescent daughters. I don't even understand why there would be a question.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod">
 

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I thought it was a very personal, strange post, too. Because of the upheaval about a copule other posts that seemed like perverts were looking for graphic information, I peeked at Lux's other post and it seems genuine enough. That said....<br><br>
NAKED FULL BODY MASSAGE WITH OIL? And you just "found out?" Are you kidding me? You are beyond a book about boundaries.
 

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This post makes me feel icky, too.<br><br>
That being said, I suppose it could have been perfectly innocent. If you have always given your daughters massages with lotions, etc, it <i>could</i> simply be a dad who hasn't noticed that his daughter is growing up. If it were pointed out to him in an accusatory manner by a spouse he doesn't get along with, I can see him being annoyed.<br><br>
I don't think it is an appropriate activity for a man and his daughters though, given their ages. I would ask him to stop.
 

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Last night I told my dh and my three older girls about this thread. (girls are 17, 15 and 12)<br><br>
Every single one of them said the dad was out of line.<br><br>
We are not prudes. We are very open about sex, nudity, body issues. But they saw serious boundary issues with this. Just not appropriate.<br><br>
Janis
 

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I agree with mama2bug and janisb....<br><br>
I feel that at the girls ages (both girls) full nude massages are out of line.....clothed full body ones are close to that line....<br><br>
It could be innocent, but it very well couldn't be due to your relationship with your soon to be ex or whatnot....It doesnt' sit well and can lead to easily to other things....<br><br>
I've worked with sexually abused children....you don't want to go down that road....<br><br>
that's my 2cents and i'm out....<br><br>
it just icks me too much.....
 
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