[thirtycats]

I could probably get off my butt and look this up myself...but I'm feeling lazy and was thinking maybe some of you experts would have the answer easily on hand.

What are the dangers of formula? I know there's the obvious...that if you're using formula baby is getting less (or no) breast milk). But besides that?? What about the fact that it is made from cow's milk? Why do they tell parents not to feed their child dairy products until the baby is a year old. Yet, they say it is okay to give baby formula made from cow's milk. Is there a difference?

Dina

 

[loving-my-babies]

I go with Dr. Sears theory that every baby (or let's say most babies) have at least a mini allergic reaction to formula. I think it's everything it has, it's all either from cow's milk or man-made, so nothing that the baby would digest as well as breastmilk.

 

[AllyRae]

This is stepping on shaky ground here.... People like me have put in hundreds of dollars to breastfeed, and *have* to use formula in an SNS for my son to be alive. After all, when you're spending $45 a month to rent a hospital grade pump, over $200 on lact-aids and refills, money for lactation consultants, teas, weight checks, etc., the $3 and OUNCE for donated breastmilk just can't be done. Therefore, in order for my son to get ANY breastmilk, he has to have formula through a nursing system. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to nurse because the hospital grade pump and nursing system are the only reason my supply hasn't completely dried up (it's been that way since my son's birth 7 months ago).

Do I think formula is best for my son? Certainly not, but until someone volunteers to ship breastmilk to me on a daily basis so I can supplement my son, I certainly can't afford to supplement with breastmilk...

Therefore, as many "dangers" as there are in formula, sometimes it's absolutely necessary to use. These kind of threads really hurt me as I feel guilty enough that my son has to have formula in order to make breastfeeding work....it makes me madder than @$#%[email protected] to know that while somepeople get to pop the babe on the breast for free, I've spent much more trying to make breastfeeding work than I EVER would have bottlefeeding, in addition to the time spent making formula, filling lact-aid bags, etc.

I would ask that while talking about the "dangers" of formula, you please keep in mind those who are forced to use it out of necessity in order to make breastfeeding work. Not out of choice, but out of necessity.... Until breastmilk banks become more readily available and don't charge $3 an ounce, some people will need to use it. No, it's not best, but sometimes, the "poison" or "dangerous formula" is necessary to keep a babe alive.

I don't mean to sound rude...I just don't want this thread to turn into something that's going to hurt another mama who's tried so hard to give her baby the best, and instead, has to resort to one of the least best things in order to give her baby the birthright of breastmilk.

Thank you.

 

[Gidget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllyRae This is stepping on shaky ground here.... People like me have put in hundreds of dollars to breastfeed, and *have* to use formula in an SNS for my son to be alive. After all, when you're spending $45 a month to rent a hospital grade pump, over $200 on lact-aids and refills, money for lactation consultants, teas, weight checks, etc., the $3 and OUNCE for donated breastmilk just can't be done. Therefore, in order for my son to get ANY breastmilk, he has to have formula through a nursing system. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to nurse because the hospital grade pump and nursing system are the only reason my supply hasn't completely dried up (it's been that way since my son's birth 7 months ago). Do I think formula is best for my son? Certainly not, but until someone volunteers to ship breastmilk to me on a daily basis so I can supplement my son, I certainly can't afford to supplement with breastmilk... Therefore, as many "dangers" as there are in formula, sometimes it's absolutely necessary to use. These kind of threads really hurt me as I feel guilty enough that my son has to have formula in order to make breastfeeding work....it makes me madder than @$#%[email protected] to know that while somepeople get to pop the babe on the breast for free, I've spent much more trying to make breastfeeding work than I EVER would have bottlefeeding, in addition to the time spent making formula, filling lact-aid bags, etc. I would ask that while talking about the "dangers" of formula, you please keep in mind those who are forced to use it out of necessity in order to make breastfeeding work. Not out of choice, but out of necessity.... Until breastmilk banks become more readily available and don't charge $3 an ounce, some people will need to use it. No, it's not best, but sometimes, the "poison" or "dangerous formula" is necessary to keep a babe alive. I don't mean to sound rude...I just don't want this thread to turn into something that's going to hurt another mama who's tried so hard to give her baby the best, and instead, has to resort to one of the least best things in order to give her baby the birthright of breastmilk. Thank you.

I just wanted to say as a mother who ff'ed her first after many issues, I feel your pain. The guilt is worse now than it was before I learned the facts of formula. It haunts me. He has health issues and I think about this every day. But had I not been able to find this info, I probably would have given up on #2 when we had issues after her birth and I probably never would have even bothered for #3 and it would have been disastrous for both due to multiple food allergies. However, I feel that this is the only place I can go for such vauable info. I am very sorry for your troubles.

I can only imagine.

And please don't be angry at us who are having it better. Be angry about the ones who have plenty and CHOOSE not to use it.

You are doing fabulous btw, most would have already quit.

 

[AllyRae]

Oh know, I'm not angry at the people who can just pop the babe on the breast...I'm angry that for so many that want to, it's extremely difficult and costly. I'm angry that it isn't working and I have to choose third or fourth best just to get SOME breastmilk into my baby. I get asked why I just don't bottlefeed...it would be cheaper. I just tell them that it's Bran's birthright and I'll defend it all I can for as long as I can, even if I can't provide him with 100%.

LOL...maybe we can call this thread "the stuff in formula that's just not all that great"... Hahaha...it just doesn't sound as horrible as the "dangers of formula" which makes me feel so guilty and awful...

 

[AllyRae]

Oh, and why is it impossible to find organic formula?? I have to give him *gasp no flaming please* carnation just because it's slightly better than the rest...but really, I wish I had an organic, or all natural choice (or a breastmilk bank...or heck, a supply that's sufficient to keep my baby out of the failure to thrive category for more than a week....).

Please tell me that the 2nd baby will be easier... LOL!

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

I don't mean to sound rude...I just don't want this thread to turn into something that's going to hurt another mama who's tried so hard to give her baby the best, and instead, has to resort to one of the least best things in order to give her baby the birthright of breastmilk

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to upset anyone. Maybe "danger" was a really bad choice of words. I should have said "Faults" or "downsides" maybe? If someone HAS to use formula to keep their child alive, obviously there is no down sides. Death or formula...ah, let's see. What's worse?

But if we even look at formula as a sort of medication. A neccessary medication for some people...Well, even some medicine, even the most-needed ones have some dangers or faults. For example, there might be a great drug for severe allergies...takes away all the sniffles, watery eyes, labored breathing etc. But it causes diarrhea in some people and may cause infertility in very rare cases. If your allergies were that bad, you'd probably still take the drug.

The reason I was asking this question in the first place is I've been reading breastfeeding advocacy which talks in the negative rather than the positive. Instead of saying breast milk helps allergies, prevents SIDS, prevents obesity, etc...they say babies who are on formula have more allergies, are more likely to be obese, etc. I was just curious about whether it is lack of BM that is causing these problems. Or if it is something in the formula itself. But you really SHOULD NOT beat yourself up about having to use formula. Even if there are serious risks, it beats starvation. It's more about letting people know the risks, so if they are one of the lucky who have a choice...they can know the risks.

Dina

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

...I'm angry that for so many that want to, it's extremely difficult and costly. I'm angry that it isn't working and I have to choose third or fourth best just to get SOME breastmilk into my baby. I get asked why I just don't bottlefeed...it would be cheaper. I just tell them that it's Bran's birthright and I'll defend it all I can for as long as I can, even if I can't provide him with 100%.

You are a hero for what you are doing for your child. Sometimes, I think the best thing to do for someone in your situation is just avoid reading these threads. You have no choice, so leave these threads for the people who do. Honestly, I avoid reading the circumcision stuff now. We made the choice that was right for our family at the time. I can't go back and change anything, so I don't see a point in reading about how I have caused my child great emotional and physical trauma. I remember getting into a discussion with someone about it on a mailing list and feeling very attacked...and I felt very defensive. For us, it was a religious/family tradition thing. And of course religion doesn't have as strong a pull as medical issues. But it can be a big factor in decision-making.

Anyway.... I think the circumcision boards are valuable for people who are debating whether or not to do it. I just kind of avoid going there. And I kind of quickly skim over that section in the AP parenting books.

Dina

 

[Gidget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllyRae Oh, and why is it impossible to find organic formula?? I have to give him *gasp no flaming please* carnation just because it's slightly better than the rest...but really, I wish I had an organic, or all natural choice (or a breastmilk bank...or heck, a supply that's sufficient to keep my baby out of the failure to thrive category for more than a week....). Please tell me that the 2nd baby will be easier... LOL!

You know, I hate Nestle due to thier extremely unethical and dangerous marketing. But you know what? If I had to supplement for whatever reason, GS is the first formula I would turn to.

 

[bec]

Maybe we should be focusing on the positives of breastmilk, then. There has been an awful lot of talk about formula, and a lot of judgement too about the "kinds" of people that use formula.

Let's focus on how great breastfeeding is, even if it's really hard! This kind of thread has so much potential to spiral out of control. Let's stop it now.

Bec

 

[Gidget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirtycats The reason I was asking this question in the first place is I've been reading breastfeeding advocacy which talks in the negative rather than the positive. Instead of saying breast milk helps allergies, prevents SIDS, prevents obesity, etc...they say babies who are on formula have more allergies, are more likely to be obese, etc. Dina

Alot of people(myself included) do this to highlight the fact that bf'ing is not really superior, it is the biological norm and formula needs to be held up against bm, rather than the other way around.

 

[katja]

In response to the OP---

I don't know enough about formula to know if there is anything in it that is specifically bad for babies, aside from baby tendencies to react to cow products. When I think about the dangers of formula feeding, however, I think about the fact that babies' immune systems are immature and can't deal with a whole lot. While formula definitely can nourish and grow a baby, it isn't a living fluid. It doesn't contain the antibodies and white blood cells that mother's milk provides. It is as if a mother loans her baby a mature immune system during the time of bfing, which seems really important and beneficial to me. So the danger is that the baby's immune system goes unsupported with formula, and baby is left more vulnerable to illness and disease. Plus there are lots more factors that I don't know a whole lot about. I guess another danger is that it just isn't as well suited to human babies. And it just doen't taste as good as the real thing! Gotta go...

 

[Gidget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by katja In response to the OP--- I don't know enough about formula to know if there is anything in it that is specifically bad for babies, aside from baby tendencies to react to cow products. When I think about the dangers of formula feeding, however, I think about the fact that babies' immune systems are immature and can't deal with a whole lot. While formula definitely can nourish and grow a baby, it isn't a living fluid. It doesn't contain the antibodies and white blood cells that mother's milk provides. It is as if a mother loans her baby a mature immune system during the time of bfing, which seems really important and beneficial to me. So the danger is that the baby's immune system goes unsupported with formula, and baby is left more vulnerable to illness and disease. Plus there are lots more factors that I don't know a whole lot about. I guess another danger is that it just isn't as well suited to human babies. And it just doen't taste as good as the real thing! Gotta go...

You summed it up quite well.

 

[azyre]

A risk to formula use is that there are manufacturing faults, it can be contaminated or have too few or too many nutrients, putting babies at risk.

I think it is important to talk about formula's short comings, I have read of many women who have only learnt later about the details of why breastmilk is so great - they knew the slogan "breast is best", but not the depth of it. They feel ripped off and rightly so. That could have been me if not for the ranting of some lactivist in cyberspace once upon a time! We are advertised heaps of stuff and told it's the best when in reality it's pretty comparable - or the difference is not worth the price - and this is one situation where this is just not so. But how do you know this unless there are enough people saying it so you can hear it?

It is also important to give support to those of us who need to use it (IMO, the first breastfeeding rule being : feed the baby!). Having had a c-section, I can emphasise with having to read about what we missed out on healthwise and emotionally, and birth is a one-day event (with ramifications to be sure) not something I have to visit daily. I imagine it hurts a lot to read about formula. I always think of them when I post formula related stuff, I don't want to add to their hurt.

And we need to talk about breastfeeding problems so that the info is out there. It's riduculous that these life skills are lost!

Here's some links about formula.

http://www.lactivist.com/dangform.html
http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/virgingut.htm
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

 

[loving-my-babies]

I agree with all of you. BUT I think the OP has a legitimate question. I have always wondered if there are dangers to formula. scientifically proven, NOT trying to trash it. I had to ff dd due to galactosemia, and even though I'm happy formula exists, because it kept my dd alive and thriving, I would still like to know what formula really is and it's potential dangers. again, not to trash it, but for information and education on the subject.

just my .02 cents..

 

[ShadowMom]

AllyRae - regarding your post.. I am in a similar boat. I've had br surgery and I produce only a few ounces a day (that's with a boatload of domperidone). I go to extreme measures to give my baby what little milk I have.

However, I respectfully differ from your opinion regarding talking about formula. When I was pregnant, I read a lot of these boards where people talk very frankly about breastfeeding being the norm and the various disadvantages of formula.

And, I have to say that, due to the research I did, as well as boards like these, I was DETERMINED to give my baby what little breastmilk I have - no matter what it took.

If we talked in terms that were less frank, you and I, despite all of the guilt we have, might not have been so determined to stick with it through all of our trials and tribulations.

No one who hasn't been in our situation knows what it has been like, that is for certain. There is nothing more heartbreaking than wanting to do the best for your child, and being physically unable to. I still think about it a lot.

Just some thoughts. I don't want to downplay your feelings in any way, so I apologize in advance if my post seems that way. I just view the topic differently than you and wanted to express that.

 

[Melda]

I really think this thread took a turn in a direction it was not meant to take ...

I would like to know what truely is dangerous about it also. I know the benefits of breastfeeding and the long term effects it has and I am wondering if that is the danger of FF that you dont get all the added protection and such that you get with breastfeeding? I am assuming that is the dangers ... or am i wrong and there is something dangerous in formula? I cant imagine that being the case but i could be wrong ....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

 

[Messy Nessie]

I think it is very important to advocate for breastfeeding by recognizing the risks of ABM. As a PP poster said, if you think of ABM as a medication, you would look of it in terms of the risks and benefits.

As an example, my DD has horrible reflux. We were given a prescription for medication that treats reflux. We researched the risks and side effects of the medication and decided which one we would use. Women who use ABM should do the very same!

Too often I think families make the decision to use ABM (and I am not talking about any of the PP, just in general) thinking that it doesn't have any risks, that it is "just a good" as BM or that it is "good enough". Or they will say things like "BFing isn't a guarantee that your baby will be smarter/healthier/happier/etc than a ABM fed baby". Or even "I/my mom/my other child/my DH/etc was ABM fed and he/she turned out fine". These ancidotal statements ignore that there are basic risks to feeding your child ABM that you need to be aware of when you make that decision.

I do not blame these families! It is the formula companies who have successfuly marked the families to believe that ABM is "just as good" or doesn't have risks. Awareness need to be raised of the dangers of ABM not only to increase breastfeeding, but to force the formula companies to improve their product so in situations wher ABM is necessary, these babies are given a quality alternative, with better digestable nutrients andhigh-qualtity ingredients. After all, all babies deserve the best that is possible and if the breast isn't possible they should have the best ABM.

 

[Ryoko]

First of all just want to say to Ally and Kristi, I totally respect and admire that you have stuck it out through all of your obstacles. Even if it's only a small amount, it still makes a world of difference!
I just wanted to add a small point here, it's not a 'health' issue exactly but I have read several places that one disadvantage to formula is that it is more filling, which keeps the baby fuller longer, and in alot of cases, means the baby sleeps longer and/or more frequently. This matters b/c that is less time that the baby spends awake, learning about his/her environment, where the bfed baby wakes to feed every 3 hours and usually even more frequently than that, so they have more opportunities to learn, basically more 'awake' time. This could possibly be a contributing factor for the fact that bfed babies routinely have higher IQs.

 

[Janice in Canada]

(I am a sales and marketing professional, and have read, thought and discussed this topic at length for past 5 years).

I think "dangers of formula" is incorrect. I prefer to say "the risks of not breastfeeding" for several reasons.

1. "dangers of formula" could lead moms to think formula itself is harmful and use other substitutes. In a common person's terms, "formula" is a commercially produced mass marketed product name-brand product. So if we only say "dangers of formula", they may think home-made substitutes are okay then. I personally know people who recently (in the past 10 years) raise their babies on milk, water and corn syrup. I have heard of poor families here feeding coffee-mate, or kool-aid in bottles.

2. for the most part, I believe that the health risks that usually listed, are due to the nutrients and antibodies that are not available in formula. Some of these, such as live antibodies, would never be available.

3. In a few instances, - they ARE severe and immediate risks directly associated with formula itself - when it is contaminated (powdered formula CANNOT be made sterile, and it is NOT recommended for use by NICU or health-compromised babies - there have been documented cases of babies who have died directly due to use of powdered contaminated formula) Formula can also metal fragments or other contaminants of the manufacturing process, just like any other product. Recently (in the past year) formulas in Israel and China have missed key nutrients, and babies have died within weeks/months of using that brand of formula. So I think we CAN easily and correctlys say these are dangers of formula. A mom wouldn't want her baby to have ONE DROP of any of these formulas.

4. Life is about "risk" and more correctly "relative risk". That's why we should talk about risk. This language becomes really important when we are talking about subjects like contamination in breastmilk, or HIV moms and breastfeeding, when there potenially IS risk to breastfeeding. But the relative risk of NOT breastfeeding may be greater than the risk of breastfeeding. Relative risk is also usefull language when discussing co-sleeping, and breastfeeding and dental health.

5. Beyond one year or so, formula itself is not really a factor in this arguement. In Canada here where we have good initiation and one year maternity leaves, at some point our issue may be to encourage moms to breastfeed for 2 years or longer, as per WHO recommendations. So then we have to talk about "risk of not breastfeeding", that the child's immune system is not mature until age 5, and the child needs the support of the mother's immune system, through her breastmilk, to fight disease and illness (so the child can be healthy and use their energy to grow and learn, rather than fight colds and ear infections) and to allow their immune and nervous system to develop in the correct nutritional environment.

6. I'm very sorry that the moms here that need to use formula to supplement feel that they may be somehow harming thier children with formula. We as a society should be providing milk bank milk for them. But I don't think they should be worrying about the formula they are using. They are absolutely making the best of the situation.

Kids are bugging me, and I have to go, I'll send this and might add more later.

Janice