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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
sorry, not sure if i should post this here or in the adoption forum.

but, on the 04/02/09 DR podcast a woman called in about her finances and she mentioned that her and her husband were starting the adoption process.

she said she was going to put the cost of the adoption on their home equity line. DR asked her how much that was and she said $30,000

what he said next made me hardly believe my ears - he told her she was ignorant of the process and that she was getting ripped off.

huh? now, before you all jump all over this - i know that many adoptions are handled for less than that and some for more.

but, he hadn't asked her any specifics. he had no idea if she was adopting from a country that requires visits (or multiple visits) or any of the other millions of things that can add up during the process.

i was so annoyed by him saying that to her. of course, he didn't let her respond and he went to a break.

i emailed the show to let him know how disappointed i was in how he treated her. i doubt i'll hear anything back.

did anyone else hear that caller? what did you think?
 

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I didn't hear the podcast, but I think Mr. Ramsey is totally ignorant on this topic. International adoptions can be VERY expensive.

Plus, on the financial side, adoptions have huge tax relief once they are finalized. I think you can write off $5k per year for up to 5 years? 3 years? Basically MOST families get MOST of the money back eventually.. there is just a huge upfront cost.

We adopted about 4 years ago domestically. We spent very little. But we were able to count off on our taxes the following year what little we spent out of pocket.
 

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I don't understand why DR is so popular. The little I've heard just seems to be common sense IMHO--don't spend more than you earn, eat beans and rice if you're on a tight budget...For this you need a seminar?


Agree that it was a dumb comment--my SIL adopted 2 sweeties from China and she's spent at least that. And they/we certainly don't feel it was a rip-off!
 

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he is normally family friendly, recommends not waiting to start a family etc but I don't listen to the show, he's a bit too abrasive for me. Most of his ideas are common sense, he's the first to admit that. I think his getting out of debt advice is great, I really needed the baby steps outlined and his way is great for motivation for the first few steps.
 

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I think his point was that, if $30,000 is a concern to her, she needs to try a country that does not require multiple visits, or domestic adoption. He gets sensationalistic for radio, but that advice is actually pretty realistic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
just to clarify - she didn't say that the $30k was a concern for her or her family.

she never got around to actually asking a question, they were still in the tell me about your situation area of the call. she mentioned the $30k as a future / anticipated debt. that's when he started making his comments.

and, as i said, he never asked her any specifics before ending the call and going to break. so i'm not even sure what her original concern was.
 

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Well, I agree that DR isn't for everyone. His politics drive me crazy - a reason I listen on iTunes and not the radio is that I can fast forward past when he starts going on a tangent I don't want to hear


But, I think his advice ON MONEY generally is right on. Yeah, it seems like common sense the financial practices he preaches, but if that were really the case - that everyone knew how to save money and avoid debt or how to get out of debt - then so many Americans wouldn't be in the shape they are in right now, ywim? For *us* it helps to have a plan and his plan makes sense for *us.*

I also think he's got good advice about dealing w/ less than savory debt collectors and things like that, too.

But, yeah, sometimes he's a little ...ummm .... much.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
I think his point was that, if $30,000 is a concern to her, she needs to try a country that does not require multiple visits, or domestic adoption.
Well, he didn't say any of that. And btw, private domestic adoption can cost $30k, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
He gets sensationalistic for radio, but that advice is actually pretty realistic.
What was realistic about his advice that she was being ripped off? I didn't see where there was any other advice given. Did I miss something? To simply state that you're being ripped off without even knowing the details doesn't really sound like realistic advice to me...? If he'd have said that you shouldn't tap your home equity and instead, save the money--yes, that would be realistic advice. If he'd have said that they might investigate other avenues that didn't cost as much (or question as to why they chose this avenue)--yes, that would've been realistic advice. To blanketly state they're getting ripped off? notsomuch.
 

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I would agree that Dave is out of touch with the Adoption community. He's made similar comments to other callers. However, this woman was asking for trouble:

1) She had debt of $20,000 for fertility treatments.
2) She was asking permission to go another $30,000 in debt for an adoption.

Dave would never recommend going into debt for something, including adoptions. I think he just didn't want to waste his time arguing with her.
 

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He also said that parents who don't spank their children are what's the matter with this country, so...
I listen to some of his financial advice and try to tune a lot of it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK - I had to go listen to it again!


she said that they had been in debt on their home equity line of about $20k for infertility treatments, but they now owed about $7k.

they have a home worth $335k, and owe $125k on it. that's a pretty nice amount of home equity! i'm jealous. but i digress...

she was saying that they were thinking of doing the same thing for the adoption costs which she expected would run between $20k and $30k

his exact words weren't that she was ignorant, it was "you don't know what you are talking about"

and his last quote on the call (i'm almost positive he had hung up on her by then) was "i don't borrow money, so i would sell my house to adopt"

i really don't understand that last piece of "advice." why would someone sell a home that you had over $200k of equity in just so that you don't borrow $30k? especially since they seemed to be doing a good job paying off the debt they already had.
 

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From a strictly financial perspective there are more frugal ways to adopt than the $30,000+ route, but you would have to be willing to adopt an older child domestically from foster care. I think there are one or two countries where infant adoptions are less than $20,000 (Haiti?) so maybe that was his point too.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
OK - I had to go listen to it again!


she said that they had been in debt on their home equity line of about $20k for infertility treatments, but they now owed about $7k.

they have a home worth $335k, and owe $125k on it. that's a pretty nice amount of home equity! i'm jealous. but i digress...

she was saying that they were thinking of doing the same thing for the adoption costs which she expected would run between $20k and $30k

his exact words weren't that she was ignorant, it was "you don't know what you are talking about"

and his last quote on the call (i'm almost positive he had hung up on her by then) was "i don't borrow money, so i would sell my house to adopt"

i really don't understand that last piece of "advice." why would someone sell a home that you had over $200k of equity in just so that you don't borrow $30k? especially since they seemed to be doing a good job paying off the debt they already had.
Thanks for listening again. I'd missed the part where she'd paid down the fertility treatment debt.

I guess he should have told her to start researching adoption agencies and saving at the same time. But really. What did she expect calling Dave?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
i really don't understand that last piece of "advice." why would someone sell a home that you had over $200k of equity in just so that you don't borrow $30k? especially since they seemed to be doing a good job paying off the debt they already had.
Because until you actually sell the home the equity is merely theoretical. You could take a line of credit against the equity and find that when you sell the house you still owe.

If you actually sell the house for the estimated value, then you do have that money. If you take a HELOC for the "equity" you just have a debt secured by a house that might or might not cover it when you sell. In the current economic climate with house prices dropping, that wouldn't really be so smart.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KnittingKara View Post

But, I think his advice ON MONEY generally is right on. Yeah, it seems like common sense the financial practices he preaches, but if that were really the case - that everyone knew how to save money and avoid debt or how to get out of debt - then so many Americans wouldn't be in the shape they are in right now, ywim? For *us* it helps to have a plan and his plan makes sense for *us.*
I disagree. On the show I heard someone called asking whether to put a windfall towards debt or refinancing/paying down mortgage. He'd run the numbers and it was going to save money to put it into the refi/mortgage. DR said no, put it to the debt, even thought that would cost money. I can't remember the other call but it was equally illogical. And there's his advice to pay extra on your mortgage even if you could earn more in interest than the mortgage costs you in interest. It's like he has an emotional reaction to debt, not a logical one.
 

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Quote:
What did she expect calling Dave?
That's what I thought when I saw the OP. He is opposed even to "good debt" (mortgage) though he "makes allowances" knowing most people simply won't go that far.

He is pretty abrasive on the radio at times. And honestly the nature of a talk show like that doesn't allow for detailed, in-depth discussions of complex issues. We actually called him once, and IMO his advice was right on (which we learned when we didn't follow it
). However, at the time it did feel like I didn't have a chance to explain and I was annoyed with him. Although, it was kind of a silly fantasy thinking I was going to argue Dave into agreeing with my position. Especially since mine turned out to be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by choli View Post
Because until you actually sell the home the equity is merely theoretical. You could take a line of credit against the equity and find that when you sell the house you still owe.

If you actually sell the house for the estimated value, then you do have that money. If you take a HELOC for the "equity" you just have a debt secured by a house that might or might not cover it when you sell. In the current economic climate with house prices dropping, that wouldn't really be so smart.
while it is true that equity is just on paper until a house sells...

i still don't follow the logic it's better to sell your home and pay say $12k of realtor commissions and buy a less expensive home and pay another say $10k in lawyers fees, closing costs & points (although i would assume that the new home would probably be paid in full) and have the remaining equity of $180k sitting there waiting for a year or two for when the bill comes in? not to mention all the costs and hassle associated with moving - not just the movers but turning on/off utilities and changing addresses everywhere, etc.

so, you really think it's better to do all that and spend that $22k-ish in order to avoid a *possible* debt of $20 to $30k? what if the adoption only ends up costing them $10k. then they would have spent $22k to avoid having $10k of debt. i won't ever understand that logic.

yes, you can make an arguement that they can invest the $150k difference, but really, why go through all that?
 
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