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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Scene - 3 pm my 8yo DD is yelling at me about something silly. My toast that you gave me for breakfast had too much butter on it. Or something equally silly. I tell her that tomorrow we will put less on then. She complains over and over again until I finally send her to her room because she won't stop complaining. Only she won't go to go to her room. No she wants to stand beside me and yell at me the same thing over and over and over again. Time to cool down? No she won't let that happen. She just follows me getting louder and louder until finally I have had enough. I pick her up and take her to her room. But she won't stay there. She follows me again. Yelling at me and following me until I have just had enough. Why can't she see that I am going to lose it? She keep at it until she gets spanked. Why does she do it and what do you think would work to get her to stop? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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I would have stuck her on the front porch and locked the door. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> If she wants to yell and complain she can do it outside. But that's just my thoughts. I haven't hit that stage with my kids yet so I'm sorry I can't be much help.
 

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Cool down anyway.<br><br>
Seriously.<br><br>
Today I was brushing my dd1's hair. This is a hard thing for her. dd2 was being as annoying as possible. dd1 and I focused on controlling our reaction to the way that dd2 was behaving, talking about the fact that we were doing that.<br><br>
You are responsible for your feelings of upset.<br><br>
Nothing she does can cause you to hit her. That is a decision you are making. Until you accept that you are likely to continue to hit her.<br><br>
A better question than "Why does she do it and what do you think would get her to stop" is "Why do I hit her and what would get me to stop." Once you stop hitting you can begin to rebuild a relationship with her where she respects you and responds to your requests.
 

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My son is only 5 but I have the same issue. He is VERY scared to be alone so he is ALWAYS with me. And he's a pretty spirited kid so there are times that I just need to take a minute (really, just ONE minute) to calm down and re-group. I've realized that when I don't get this time, the chances that I end up yelling are much greater. No one wants that - I don't want it and my son doesn't want. So, I talked to him about it and told him that I have a "mama cup" that I need to keep filled in order to be a good mama to him and his sister. And, being a mama empties out my mama cup so I need a little bit of time to myself to refill it. He also knows that I only yell when my mama cup is empty. He seems to really get this analogy so I use it often. I will say "I am starting to feel like my mama cup is almost empty so I need a few minutes to myself." Sometimes, I set the timer on the microwave for five minutes. He can stay in the room with me but he can't talk to me. Then, when he quiets down for a second, I get a glass of water because that gives me something to do and it helps me focus on the kind of parent I want to be and it's good for me. I'll also take some rescue remedy if I feel like I need it. I know some other mamas on here use words to refocus themselves but I haven't thought of mine yet. Then, when I feel like I've calmed down, I give lots of hugs and love and we work on whatever we need to together.<br><br>
It sounds like you don't like to use spanking so I encourage you to stop. Just give it up 100%. It isn't good for anyone. And let your daughter know that you are going to stop.<br><br>
I think it is okay to let your child know where you are at and what you need. I want to teach my children that it is okay to meet their own needs so I model that for them as positvely as I can. I have to be careful to make sure it isn't worded as a threat so I say "My mama cup is getting so empty that I feel like yelling and I don't want to do that. I need to fill up my mama cup now."<br><br>
Hang in there mama. And, please try to not spank again. I know from your post that you know that and you don't feel good about it and you are trying. Come here for support in your effort.
 

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I ask for a solution. An 8yo should be able to provide one.<br><br>
"Oh, I see. What do you think should be done about that?"<br><br>
My 8yo ds occasionally gets into complaining moods and I let him go for a bit, and then ask him to list off X number of good things depending on how many complaints he has. "That's a lot to be upset about! Can you find 5 things to feel good about?" Or "Ok, let's see if we can find a good side to your complaints - 1. It's raining and we can't go to the pool. BUT, the yard is getting a good drink, so your carrots will come up faster!"
 

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Oh, I forgot to add that the post about love flooding is a great idea. When my son is driving me bonkers, I try (and I mean TRY, it is very hard for me to break away from the moment) to respond to him with love. To go up to him, get down on my knees, and offer to hug him while he's screaming at me about something. Hard to do but it usually helps a lot.<br><br>
Also, I would try to get on her level, touch her, make eye contact and say something like "I can see how upset and angry you are. It seems to be a lot of emotion for a piece of toast. Is there something else that is making you feel this way?" Because, you know, it's never just about the toast.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"><br>
All though I do agree to some extent with pp, I understand we parents have control over ourselves, you are not made to feel a certain way by someone... still I have often wondered why kids will push and push to get a reaction, knowing you are about to loose it. I mean I know as an adult I should be above getting angry with my kids about such things as b*tching about toast for hours... but really come on, eventually you snap. What would you do if some adult was yelling at you for a long period of time about buttered toast? I mean you can't change the past, you can do different in the future, but the toast was already buttered and eaten... can't fix it. LOL<br><br>
My suggestion is to lock yourself in the bathroom and get in the shower, so you cam't hear her and then just try and calm yourself, maybe mediate, or deep breath, or count whatever works. Do simple yoga poses in the shower. Maybe get some EO and put some of that on to help you calm down.<br>
THEN I would look into why on earth she presets in yelling at you and pushing you till you snap. What is she missing? Can you talk to her when she is like this? Ask why the toast upset her so much. Maybe have her make her own food if she is going to be picky about it.<br>
I also recommend a book called "When Anger Hurts Your Kids" It is really a great book and has you journal what is going on. I have found it really helpful.<br>
I wish I had some better advice, good luck and a big old HUG to you!<br><br>
H
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>chfriend</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9023011"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Cool down anyway.<br><br>
Seriously.<br><br>
Today I was brushing my dd1's hair. This is a hard thing for her. dd2 was being as annoying as possible. dd1 and I focused on controlling our reaction to the way that dd2 was behaving, talking about the fact that we were doing that.<br><br>
You are responsible for your feelings of upset.<br><br>
Nothing she does can cause you to hit her. That is a decision you are making. Until you accept that you are likely to continue to hit her.<br><br>
A better question than "Why does she do it and what do you think would get her to stop" is "Why do I hit her and what would get me to stop." Once you stop hitting you can begin to rebuild a relationship with her where she respects you and responds to your requests.</div>
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ITA. As the parent of a very challenging child who will not leave me alone so that I can cool down, I think it's important to find ways of cooling down anyway. I can cool down without having to depend on my child's behavior changing in order to do so. I know it can be very, very trying. I know what it is to feel as though if I don't get a break, alone, <i>right now</i> I'm going to blow. But really, it's up to me as the adult to calm down regardless of what my child does. It is particularly important that I resolve to calm myself regardless of my child's behavior if I know that I may hit (or may want to hit) my child if I do not calm down. It is not up to my children to prevent themselves from being hit, it is up to me to remain calm and not hit them. Find that mental happy place, the zen spot inside, and calm down anyway. Calm down first, address/respond to the behavior after you've calmed down.<br><br>
Get a nice glass of water and take a nice, slow drink.<br><br>
Take some slow, deliberate breaths.<br><br>
Count to 10, or 20.<br><br>
Have a mantra to repeat to yourself, to remind yourself to calm down.<br><br>
Read a calming, inspirational poem or page of a book.<br><br>
Splash some water on your face, or do something else that soothes you.<br><br>
Have a squishy stress ball to squeeze.<br><br>
Also, it may help to think of things from your child's point of view, or to understand her behavior in a different way. Why is she so unhappy that she's complaining all day? What is she needing? Could just taking some time to focus on her and connect help? What could be contributing to her behavior? How can you help?
 

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Since your final response is to hit her, it's likely you have a situation in which she is now "immune" to anything you say or do prior to hitting her. Hitting desensitizes children to words and cooperative efforts. No amount of talking or cooperation is very effective when the last resort is hitting. Possibly, she annoys you on purpose because she craves intense emotional interaction, and she is choosing your intense negative reactions because they are reliable in this situation. She can count on you losing it and giving her your total (negative) attention, and she has decided it's worth it despite the fact that the attention is negative. That isn't unusual--especially when a pattern like this has developed.<br><br>
Hitting has to be removed from the toolbox. Permanently. She is 8 yo, so I'm guessing the hitting has been present for many years. You need to set up new ground rules, talk to her about them, and make a total commitment to healthier interactions. As the adult you have to make the first step here.<br><br>
There are ways to handle the specific situation of her trying to annoy you. If it's happening at the same time everyday, look at whether her blood sugar is low, or if tiredness and boredom are factors. Then offer a solution while pointing out that her words aren't okay with you "I don't like that tone of voice. You sound very hungry. Here, I've made a snack. Let's see if you feel calmer after you eat". At 8yo she is more than old enough to talk about her own behavior objectively. I'd ask "Why are you talking like that?" and really listen to the answer. An effective approach a mother here uses is to say 'Do you trust that I will still hear and meet your needs when you ask in a nicer voice?". Persistent whining can be a form of insecurity in older kids. It can help to remind her that you hear the nicer tone better than the whining (if that's true).<br><br>
Again, lots of solutions, but the ground rules need to be changed. No hitting. That has to be taken off the table.
 

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I agree that hitting should be removed from the "parenting toolbox".<br><br>
BUT -<br><br>
Holy Cow! Why do people (big people and little people!) do this? I need a minute I said! If I leave the room, I'm accused of CIO. If I stay *I* go crazy. I NEED time to myself.<br><br>
I think it's a matter of being the parent you can be. Like.<br><br>
"I'm not going to hit" chop veggies<br>
"I'm NOT going to hit" chop veggies<br>
"If I don't leave right now, I won't hit her, I'll strangle her"<br>
Ok. Untangle yourself, go to the bathroom, take a shower. That will soothe you. Or go to the bedroom, lock the door, turn on music. Stick your head out the window. Ect. ect.<br><br>
If it comes down to leaving your child or hitting, I think it should be leaving.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>captivatedlife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9025140"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If it comes down to leaving your child or hitting, I think it should be leaving.</div>
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Not the op....but what do you do if the child won't let you leave? I don't know if the op has this situation, and I have not ever hit dd, but we have similar scenarios and dd will NOT let me leave the room. She will try to bust down the door. It is really miserable <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
And I don't really understand the advice to just "cool down". The behavior *has* to stop. It really isn't acceptable, and, in my situation, it can absolutely feel abusive (toward me). I think there is a place for understanding that we control our own emotional responses, and then the reality that, if anyone other than our own children treated us this way, we would probably end the relationship <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">: .<br><br><br><br>
To the op......we are having these episodes right now because we've just made a major move. Dd has these behaviors when she is very stressed (she is 6.5....we went through a phase when ds was born 8 months ago, and we are in another phase now 3 weeks after our move). Is there something stressing dd? Maybe the new school year?<br><br>
Have you looked into food intolerances? Is she simply hungry (as pp mentioned, low blood sugar at 3 pm?).<br><br>
I really believe that the best way to deal with these behaviors is to prevent them in the first place. We have ramped up chances for dd to get out and exercise, and carved out more time for us alone together, and that is helping. But once we are in the episode, I really don't know any gentle ways to get out of it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I have never hit her, but it isn't exactly a gentle scene <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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I was like this when I was about 8-9. I later found out that it was a delayed reaction to something that happened when I was 6; there was a time period at that age when my parents were in fairly serious danger. (Basically someone had been stalking my family.) So it is also possible for kids to act that way as a delayed reaction.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sunnmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9026600"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And I don't really understand the advice to just "cool down". The behavior *has* to stop. It really isn't acceptable, and, in my situation, it can absolutely feel abusive (toward me).</div>
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The advice to cool down, at least my advice to cool down, has to do with parent's controlling their own response. Addressing a child's behavior, helping them change, takes time, effort, and a calm (enough) parent. And as parents, we are responsible for our own behavior-our children are only responsible for their own behavior, not ours. Yes, kids' behavior can be aggravating-but it's up to us to find ways of remaining calm, even when they *won't* let us leave the room and have a moment of peace without banging on the door and causing more havoc. If we see our children as the cause of our behavior and expect them to change their behavior so that we don't lose it, imo that's putting responsibility for our own behavior and emotions on our children.<br><br>
I don't think any of the advice given was meant to suggest that the behavior should go unaddressed-in fact I think some suggestions for addressing the behavior were given. I also don't think the advice to cool down was meant to suggest that children not be taught responsibility for their own behavior, or how their behavior affects others. I think the advice given was really meant to emphasize the importance of a parent's calming down before reaching the point where she spanks, without depending on her child's immediate change in behavior to do so. And the importance of not spanking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
She will not let me go and calm down! I live in a 800 sq foot house and she would follow me into the bathroom. If I locked the door she would kick it and scream at me through it at the top of her lungs! She broke one of our doors once because she was so out of control! Hiding in the bathroom crying while she bangs on the door screaming does not help me relax. I also have a two year old who is starting to have tantrums like big sister.<br><br>
Background - My daughter is totally blind and she has to have a needle daily of growth hormone and she doesn't want to go to school and she doesn't like sleeping by herself.<br><br>
Okay be mad about getting a needle, be mad about being blind, be mad about having to go to school, she is too big and too old to sleep with us and her brother isn't ready to leave our bed(he still nurses at night). I can't change any of these things no matter how much I want to! So we need to find a way to deal with it. Letting her get away with treating her dad and I like crap is not working for us anymore. I have had enough!<br><br>
We always talk about what happenedand why. But it always happens again.
 

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Wow. That is a lot for all of you to be dealing with <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">s<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ParisApril</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9027314"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Okay be mad about getting a needle, be mad about being blind, be mad about having to go to school, she is too big and too old to sleep with us and her brother isn't ready to leave our bed(he still nurses at night). I can't change any of these things no matter how much I want to! .</div>
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Are you sure there is nothing you can change? Dd sleeps with us, and she is 6.5. I anticipate her sleeping with us when she is 8. Right now, we are in an apt with big bedrooms, and we all sleep together (dd, ds, and me on one bed, dh on a full size next to it). When we lived in our 800 sq ft home with tiny bedrooms (as recently as 3 wks ago!), dd, ds and I slept in one room and dh in another room. Yeah, not my first choice sleeping arrangement....but dh and I can handle this arrangement better than dd can handle sleeping alone.<br><br>
Also, we homeschool, partially because I know how horribly dd deals with stress at this age. Is that a possibility?<br><br>
My dd has sensory processing dysfunction, which contributes to her stress response. I am looking at the ages of your children....and realizing that mine are the same age span. Ugh....and 8 yo and a 2 yo tantruming....that could be my future! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
Maybe you could get some more help on the Special Needs board?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br>
you might get better advice from someone in a simular situation.<br><br>
hugs<br><br>
h
 

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This sounds really stressful for both of you. I agree that the hitting has to stop, no matter what. And I also definately think that she has some deeper underlying issues going on, something that perhaps needs professional attention. Have you considered counseling? Maybe with both of you as well as just her on her own? I would do anything and everything to really connect with her especially after punishing her by hitting. I do, by all means, think the relationship can be repaired, but it will take some hard work on your part. I think you already know, this isn't about the toast, or even her following you around making you crazy. It is something else that is triggering her behavior, and rather than just focusing on stopping her behavior, I would focus on connecting and finding the source of the underlying pain. HTH
 

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I agree with mommy2abigail, completely. I also agree that you may find posting in the special needs forum to be helpful.<br><br>
ParisApril, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
sunnmama - Honestly sleeping in another bedroom away from my DH is not an option for me. DD slept with us until she was 6 years old. We will have Sleep overs with her from time to time and we let her sleep in our bed but she can't fall asleep and will leave and go to her own room.
 
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