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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm inspired by the "... next president??" thread, but do not want to take it off topic, so...<br><br>
Dean vs Kucinich:<br>
a peaceable debate about what you like or dislike about their positions on Iraq, healthcare, etc, whatever they diverge on...
 

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Kucinich because:<br>
-Most likely to go after the Texas Energy Mafia (matters to me as a Californian)<br>
-Really anti-Iraq war- not a marshmallow like Dean or a hawk ilke Lieberman<br>
-He's vegan (yay!)<br>
-Anybody who can be a liberal in Ohio and get elected repeatedly has my respect. He seems like the most principled canidate.<br><br>
Why not Dean:<br>
Dean strikes me as a Clintonesque centrist compromiser. I think we need a real liberal alternative because the Republicans keep trying to move the center right and that won't change until someone passionately defends the pregressive viewpoint. He may be more electable but the idea that he's wildly liberal shows how far right the Dems have moved.
 

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Im a Dean fan....<br><br>
I think Dean is reasonable, and will be better able to accomplish his well though out, well rounded goals.<br><br>
I think Dennis is a visionary but doesn't have practical approaches/solutions to the problems we face as a nation. JMHO okey dokey...<br><br>
I think we need a man who has a good fiscal record (especially after 4 years of the Shrubinator) and that man is Dean.<br><br>
He's not a marshmallow like Kucinich (stole that from Anita) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> or a hawk like Lieberman, he's an owl which is again is a sensible position.<br><br>
I admire the way he has run his campaign. At one time he and Kucinich were tied at 2% in the polls and Dean has since become a front runner. I feel that is an example of his competence.<br><br>
I also like the fact that Dean has a record of success in Vermont. Vermont is one of a few states not suffering today, inspite of Bush's financial mismanagement of our country. Vermont has seen its child abuse rate drop 70 percent among children from birth to age 3, and 50 percent from birth to age 5. *This was a result of a voluntary program for home visits and ongoing help for families that Howard Dean envisioned and put in place.*<br><br>
I like the fact that he is a so called 'compromiser' because that's the only way one can accomplish anything at all. We have to work with Republicans no matter who is in the White House.<br><br>
I like the fact that Dean (was the only candidate) who went to California to talk about the recall. I like the fact that he is working hard to win this election and 'take back our country' GO DEAN!!!!<br><br>
Note: Howard Dean warns his supporters not to 'fall in love with him' because he will not agree with 'us' on everything. I also like that about him. He's not pandering, he thinks outside the box. He..... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/luxlove.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="throb"> ok nevermind.<br><br>
I was torn between DK and HD at one time loooong ago, but Dean has come out waaay on top for me personally and apparently many others as well, judging from the polls.<br><br><a href="http://www.deanforamerica.com" target="_blank">http://www.deanforamerica.com</a><br><br><a href="http://howard-dean-for-president.mydd.com/2004.html" target="_blank">http://howard-dean-for-president.mydd.com/2004.html</a><br><br>
Edited to add, I'm firmly <b>ABB</b> and like many of our top tier candidates! No doubt they'd all represent the people to a far greater extent then *...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
hi all~<br>
I am torn between DK & HD myself, but I think Dean is imminently more electable. I *hate* that that matters to me this time, but it does! (I was a Nader supporter last time) I love Kucinich's anger & his response to people who say "but you know that won't work, right?" Really good example of that in Iowa @ a conference their gov. held on health care. Each candidate was there presenting their HC plan, 1 @ a time, not a debate, then sat down for Q&A with the gov. after. (wonderful issue rich format BTW)<br><br>
So, K totally lays it on the line: the only way to do it is a single payer system, total revamp, and anybody who says otherwise is... So gov of Iowa asks him *how* he thinks he's going to get this thru Congress & K says that we have to do what's right, not what works. His language was very empassioned & inspiring & got a huge round of applause. He also pointed out that it's up to us to elect him AND give him a congress he can work with. Good point.<br><br>
Then, it's Deans turn. He explains his plan which he has already done in VT <br>
but he also says that if a single payer, universal hc plan comes across his desk, he'll sign it. But he wants to get the unisured insured 1st, with a plan he already knows works.<br><br>
So, I was impressed by both of them in totally different ways. Not that Dean is uninspiring, but he is so sensible & pragmatic, it does kind of scare me, center moving right & all that. However, look @ the civil unions thing in VT. He made that law @ a time when polls showed the majority of VTers were against it. So, he's not afraid of doing what's unpopular, just like K.<br><br>
The other thing that sways me toward D is he is experienced inthe executive branch. I think people underestimate that. Being Pres isn't all about legislating. There is a huge executive branch of departments that he has to manage effectively & laws he has to enforce.<br><br>
gotta run, babe awakes!
 

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The bottom line for me?: Kucinich is not ready for prime time. Dean is. While Dean occasionally has wobbles, he deals with them well at this point. I have confidence, moreover, that Dean's abilities in this regard will improve, rather than deteriorate or stagnate.<br><br>
Having the world's most wonderful policies won't do squat if there's no chance in hell that you'll be elected. Heck, Nader was more electable than Kucinich, IMO. I'd prefer someone with whom I may not see eye to eye on certain matters, but who has integrety and who presents himself sufficiently well for folks to consider him to be "presidential" material.
 

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I am for Dean, too.<br><br>
All of the above, PLUS, I saw him win against nasty Republican National Party-backed mudslingers in Vermont. He is scrappy.<br><br>
Vermont still has the two-year governor term. Conservative (while not "mainstream" Republican) Vermont kept electing him. And it wasn't just the flatlander transplants. He did a good job. Not perfect, but then again, who is.<br><br>
Everyone up there is SHOCKED to hear him referred to as a "lefty" or "liberal". He bullied the state into the black. Talk about Fiscal Conservative. But, still, decent programs got funded.<br><br>
And, he doesn't hide. You can't in VT anyhow. EVERYONE has their numbers in the phone book. When his son got arrested recently it didn't make the national news much...why? because he 1) made sure his son took his punishment and 2) didn't try to hide anything. And he never got all buttermouthed about "privacy" and "healing" like Bush did about his daughters. (Blasted hypocrite!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Everyone up there is SHOCKED to hear him referred to as a "lefty" or "liberal".</td>
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Of course, this is proof that he is electable & a threat to Schrub & his hedge-men. "Liberal" is the worst thing you can call a politician, or so the right wing pundits think. Whenever I hear Tucker Carlson on Crossfire say someone's candidacy is "doomed" I always check them out!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
What I love about Sharpton, Mosely-Braun, & K is that they pull the Dem party back left, so that we don't just have Lieberman pulling it right.<br><br>
I do admire K's position on WTO. Anybody know D's position on this? I'm not familiar.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">he's an owl which is again is a sensible position.</td>
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And, as Twin Peaks fans will recall, the owls are not what they seem.<br><br>
We like Dean in this house, and already have a Dean sticker on our car... that's the first time I can recall putting anyone's name on the car. DK might be good, too, but he's a no-hoper, and we all know what happens when we vote for a no-hoper (Nader in 2000).
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Hilary Briss</i><br><b>We like Dean in this house, and already have a Dean sticker on our car... that's the first time I can recall putting anyone's name on the car. DK might be good, too, but he's a no-hoper, and we all know what happens when we vote for a no-hoper (Nader in 2000).</b></td>
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I feel this way too, although I didnt vote for Nader in 2000 <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> I had the same feeling then as I have now....The only good conservative is one NOT holding public office.<br><br>
Anyway..Devi pretty much laid my feelings out as well...so why re type it? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 
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