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i don't really have any advice, because i'm in exactly the same situation (almost eerily the same!) i don't feel done with the two we have, and i know that we are meant to have another. i've known since before i had my son that he wasn't the last. but dh is adamant that he doesn't want any more, and although i've gotten him to at least wait on the vasectomy, he still refuses to entertain the possibility. it hurts, and i feel like i'm thinking about getting pg all the time. i just keep hoping he'll change his mind, and if he doesn't, i don't know what i'll do. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
not to hijack your thread, but i just want you to know that i understand, because i'm there too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> it's hard. you can't compromise and have half a baby, you know? so how DO you compromise in this kind of situation?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I guess there is no compromise, and I agree with someone who said they want dh to be at least alittle enthused about it. I could not trick dh into getting pg, b/c not only is that wrong, I'd have to live with his disappointment, which I couldn't handle (although it IS tempting!!!). He is coming around to the whole possibility that I might be pg right now. He thinks I am; we'll see. He's even laughing about it, so I guess that's good. I asked him that if I'm not pg, would he EVER consider having another baby? He answer, 'yes.". So, I'm not going to be as sad if I'm not pg right now, knowing that I might actually have my 3rd (or 4th...or 5th...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> )
 

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I've come to the point where I realize that if I let my preoccupation with having another baby take away from my presence and ability to enjoy my current life and family then it is really dysfunctional. I mean I allow myself to think "maybe someday" but without a husband that supports it (and doesn't feel like he'll die of a heart attack if we have another), it is really selfish (IMO). I'm speaking of myself here. Why do I have to push the issue? Why obsess when I have so much in front of me. Why would it be worth putting my husband through the stress and my kids in the middle of that? In a perfect world, my husband would be so secure that nothing could make him so fearful of having another baby...or he could say that in a perfect world, his wife would be grateful for what she has and stop always nagging about needing more...<br><br>
We have two kids, we've compromised, I'm not lacking anything. I'm hoping some day it will make sense with this husband to have more kids. If not, I'm trying to count my blessings.
 

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First of all, I am NOT accusing the OP of this. But, I had to respond to some other posts I have seen in this thread and others like it. I also am sure some posts were meant as a joke, really. But there ARE people who would do this and that is what bugs me.<br><br>
I think it is beyond disgusting to purposely "oops" a husband who clearly does not wish for more children.<br><br>
How would you like it if you didn't want any more kids, made it known, and yet your husband sabotaged your birth control, more or less FORCING you to become pregnant against your will? I would be resentful and probably would not stay with someone who would go so far against my wishes.<br><br>
I see posts about non-coercive parenting and discipline. Why is it okay to be coercive and flat-out deceitful to your husband?<br><br>
I sometimes wonder if husbands really matter to some women. Are they really partners? Or are they just a means to an end? (having more children~getting what you want) I am not pointing at anyone here in particular, but it really makes me wonder.<br><br>
Yes, it is sad to some when their childbearing days are over. I cried buckets over getting my tubal. But, I still wanted it, because I knew I could not endure another pregnancy where I was sick 24/7. I had a really hard time with #3. I honestly feel badly for women whose husbands don't want more children and the woman does. But, deceit is not the way to go about it.
 

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I think it is very important to remember that we come here for a safe place to be honest. If these feelings come up, it is more constructive to come here and work through thme than to act on them. That includes inclinations to trick etc. I've had those thoughts too, no shame in that. It is your actions that count. So I hope no one comes away feeling judged.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mijumom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6211663"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it is very important to remember that we come here for a safe place to be honest. If these feelings come up, it is more constructive to come here and work through thme than to act on them. That includes inclinations to trick etc. I've had those thoughts too, no shame in that. It is your actions that count. So I hope no one comes away feeling judged.</div>
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If that was directed at my post, point taken. But, I will not agree that it is okay to ever "oops" someone.<br><br>
I am sure and agree with you that some people would never do what they vent about. I am also sure that some "oops"-type posts are meant as a joke and not to be taken seriously. Some people just vent. That is fine.<br><br>
But, I have seen some that are dead serious. Who would actually do that. Those are the ones I am referring to. I have known someone who did it. Guess what? She is no longer married because of her deceit and lying. That is so sad.<br><br>
If you feel judged because of a dissenting opinion, well, I am sorry. It was never my intention to make anyone feel that way. But, I just cannot fathom doing such a thing to a spouse.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TinkerBelle</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6211431"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First of all, I am NOT accusing the OP of this. But, I had to respond to some other posts I have seen in this thread and others like it. I also am sure some posts were meant as a joke, really. But there ARE people who would do this and that is what bugs me.<br><br>
I think it is beyond disgusting to purposely "oops" a husband who clearly does not wish for more children.<br><br>
How would you like it if you didn't want any more kids, made it known, and yet your husband sabotaged your birth control, more or less FORCING you to become pregnant against your will? I would be resentful and probably would not stay with someone who would go so far against my wishes.<br><br>
I see posts about non-coercive parenting and discipline. Why is it okay to be coercive and flat-out deceitful to your husband?<br><br>
I sometimes wonder if husbands really matter to some women. Are they really partners? Or are they just a means to an end? (having more children~getting what you want) I am not pointing at anyone here in particular, but it really makes me wonder.<br><br>
Yes, it is sad to some when their childbearing days are over. I cried buckets over getting my tubal. But, I still wanted it, because I knew I could not endure another pregnancy where I was sick 24/7. I had a really hard time with #3. I honestly feel badly for women whose husbands don't want more children and the woman does. But, deceit is not the way to go about it.</div>
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I agree with you, and I'm sure the other women do as well, that it is sad when people don't respect their spouses, or anyone else for that matter. It's nice to see you so passionate about the topic, you obviously have alot of respect for your dh, as do I; which is why I could never trick him into anything (except the rabbit that I really really wanted<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent"> ) Anyway, I just think people responded to your post the way they did b/c you came off a little strong on a post that was a vent about wanting more babies, and consequently the <i>inner thoughts</i> <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mischievous.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="mischief"> of wanting to put some semen up there, to achieve this basic desire to have more children. I totally hear you though, and, again, appreciate your devotion to your husband and your marriage.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jee'smom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6212581"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree with you, and I'm sure the other women do as well, that it is sad when people don't respect their spouses, or anyone else for that matter. It's nice to see you so passionate about the topic, you obviously have alot of respect for your dh, as do I; which is why I could never trick him into anything (except the rabbit that I really really wanted<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent"> ) Anyway, I just think people responded to your post the way they did b/c you came off a little strong on a post that was a vent about wanting more babies, and consequently the <i>inner thoughts</i> <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mischievous.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="mischief"> of wanting to put some semen up there, to achieve this basic desire to have more children. I totally hear you though, and, again, appreciate your devotion to your husband and your marriage.</div>
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I am passionate by nature. Sometimes I come off a little strong and don't mean to. My post was not directed at anyone in particular. I realize this is a place to vent. But, my point was, there are some who would do something like "oopsing" and I just cannot wrap my head around that at all. I certainly would not want to hurt anyone's feelings.<br><br>
Believe it or not, I have been there. I was told I could not have children. I got to watch everyone else having the baby showers and the fun for 6 years.<br><br>
Then, miracles of miracles, I got PG with DS1. When he was about 9 mos old, we found out #2 was coming. Then, in 2002, I had a miscarriage at 6 wks along. I wanted another child, but after it didn't happen, I was resigned to being happy with my two, and then our last child came in 2005. I had difficult pregnancies and decided to have a tubal ligation after #3. I cried the whole day right up until the operation. My doctor had to ask me several times if I was sure I wanted the surgery. I was sad that a part of my life was ending, and really did not want to have the surgery on one level, but knew it was the best for my health and well-being, so I had it done. No regrets. I know it was for the best.<br><br>
There are people who will never experience the joy of having children, so I know I am truly blessed. Sure, I wonder what it would be like to have a daughter sometimes. But, I have learned to be content with what I have been given.<br><br>
However, I realize others have not come to terms with it yet. I hope they can and get some peace.
 

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TinkerBelle- I totally agree with you. I think you offer some good insight into the obvious consequences of manipulating a mate into something so huge. I didn't assume you meant any offense, I just wanted to reinforce the difference between sharing these thoughts and actually following through. I would hope that maybe sharing the thoughts and getting feedback here might actually influence soemone not to take such action.<br><br>
I feel very empathetic to the desperation expressed on this thread. I feel it sometimes myself but nothing is happening without dh on board. We went through a separation already following the birth of ds#2 so I have that experience to reflect on. Not everyone gets the gravity of having a child that their dh doesn't really want (accident baby)...BTW, we went into counceling and are still together and he adores and loves ds#2 very deeply. But we had to go through a hell I don't wish for anyone.<br><br>
I think we're on the same page.
 

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Regarding "tricking" one's partner into getting pregnant, I would like to point out that the OP stated that her DH used the withdrawal method. Come on! Your DH does not want another child? Fine. He should put on a condom or get a vasectamy. But for god's sake, don't insult your wife by withdrawing early from the act so that she has to see your semen everywhere other than where she would like it to be. That's just a slap in the face to your wife who you know wants a child. It is hurtful and cruel and I got no sympathy for a man who does that and ends up getting his wife pregnant, however it happens!<br><br>
Which leads me to my second point: who is anyone to say in this situation that the male partner has been "tricked" or "deceived"? Everyone knows that withdrawal is NOT a 100% effective method of birth control. Who are we to say how a woman got pregnant? Because some escaped while in the act? Because some escaped just outside her opening? Because she reinserted with her fingers? You are a man and you don't want more kids, GET SOME REAL BIRTH CONTROL and stop blaming your wife for tricking you because she wants kids and you had the gall to leave your semen all over the place instead taking responsible steps to prevent pregnancy. You don't want kids? YOU prevent it. Period.<br><br>
And to the poster who wrote the sanctimonious post stating how could any woman possibly "oops" her husband when he did not want another child, it seems to me that you had your tubal ligation for YOUR OWN reasons and not just because YOUR HUSBAND told you to do it. If someone's husband does not want kids and she does, HE SHOULD BE THE ONE TAKING THE APPROPRIATE AND VIRTUALLY SUREFIRE STEPS TO PREVENT IT. There is no question of "oopsing" anyone when we are talking about withdrawal, as it is nowhere near being a surefire method of preventing pregnancy in the first place.
 

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Hello. I read all the posts with interest. I wouldn't say my situation is exactly the same, but similar in some ways.<br><br>
I'm just wondering...do your DH's ever communicate to you why they do not want any or more children? Is it mainly financial or are there other reasons?<br><br>
In my situation, I think if we could clearly communicate our dreams and fears to each other, maybe we'd start to be on the same page about major life decisions. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mijumom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6213625"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">TinkerBelle- I totally agree with you. I think you offer some good insight into the obvious consequences of manipulating a mate into something so huge. I didn't assume you meant any offense, I just wanted to reinforce the difference between sharing these thoughts and actually following through. I would hope that maybe sharing the thoughts and getting feedback here might actually influence soemone not to take such action.<br><br>
I feel very empathetic to the desperation expressed on this thread. I feel it sometimes myself but nothing is happening without dh on board. We went through a separation already following the birth of ds#2 so I have that experience to reflect on. Not everyone gets the gravity of having a child that their dh doesn't really want (accident baby)...BTW, we went into counceling and are still together and he adores and loves ds#2 very deeply. But we had to go through a hell I don't wish for anyone.<br><br>
I think we're on the same page.</div>
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I think that makes sense. I think most dads would still be wonderful dads to an unplanned child, however, the reality is some dads may resent or feel differently about a child if they feel they were tricked into a pregnancy. That's not the optimal situation for a child to enter so if at all possible, consensus between mom and dad beforehand is best! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Also, your DH may be less than helpful during a pregnancy if the timing is not what he wished.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmlp</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6218721"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Regarding "tricking" one's partner into getting pregnant, I would like to point out that the OP stated that her DH used the withdrawal method. Come on! Your DH does not want another child? Fine. He should put on a condom or get a vasectamy. But for god's sake, don't insult your wife by withdrawing early from the act so that she has to see your semen everywhere other than where she would like it to be. That's just a slap in the face to your wife who you know wants a child. It is hurtful and cruel and I got no sympathy for a man who does that and ends up getting his wife pregnant, however it happens!<br><br>
Which leads me to my second point: who is anyone to say in this situation that the male partner has been "tricked" or "deceived"? Everyone knows that withdrawal is NOT a 100% effective method of birth control. Who are we to say how a woman got pregnant? Because some escaped while in the act? Because some escaped just outside her opening? Because she reinserted with her fingers? You are a man and you don't want more kids, GET SOME REAL BIRTH CONTROL and stop blaming your wife for tricking you because she wants kids and you had the gall to leave your semen all over the place instead taking responsible steps to prevent pregnancy. You don't want kids? YOU prevent it. Period.<br><br>
And to the poster who wrote the sanctimonious post stating how could any woman possibly "oops" her husband when he did not want another child, it seems to me that you had your tubal ligation for YOUR OWN reasons and not just because YOUR HUSBAND told you to do it. If someone's husband does not want kids and she does, HE SHOULD BE THE ONE TAKING THE APPROPRIATE AND VIRTUALLY SUREFIRE STEPS TO PREVENT IT. There is no question of "oopsing" anyone when we are talking about withdrawal, as it is nowhere near being a surefire method of preventing pregnancy in the first place.</div>
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First of all, I did NOT direct my post at the OP. Not even close. I never said she would "oops" him. I never said <b>she</b> would try to deceive or trick him.<br><br>
I actually <b>AGREE</b> with you. If a man does not want more kids, HE should get the big "V" or use a condom or something. Withdrawl is NOT effective, as we all know. I also agree that a guy who says "no more kids", yet is not doing anything to try to prevent, is playing some kind of game and it is cruel.<br><br>
I was referring to posts suggesting scooping semen and inseminating one's self, and those who pretend to take their B/C, and don't, thereby the "oops" happens. It DOES happen. Men do it too. I knew someone whose husband messed with her B/C Pills. Women have been known to poke holes in condoms and diaphragms. It happens.<br><br>
Call me "sanctimonious" or whatever. I don't care how you judge me. But, I am not going to back down from my position. If anyone, <b>male OR female</b>, basically forces their partner into another child by sabotaging B/C, or whatever, it is WRONG. It is deceitful, and could mean the end of the relationship, in some cases.<br><br>
Oh, and BTW, I DID state that I realize that some of the posts were not meant to be serious, AND that this is a place to vent. If you want to get down to it, I was venting as well. I also believe I explained how I know what it is like to want a child and not be able to have one.<br><br>
I feel terribly for people who struggle with this problem. And I hope some compromise or resolution can come about, so they can get some peace.<br><br><br><br><span>To the OP: I hope things work out the way you want them to. Perhaps he will come around and welcome a new addition with open arms. At any rate, I hope you find peace with your situation.</span>
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I was referring to posts suggesting scooping semen and inseminating one's self, and those who pretend to take their B/C, and don't, thereby the "oops" happens. It DOES happen. Men do it too. I knew someone whose husband messed with her B/C Pills. Women have been known to poke holes in condoms and diaphragms. It happens.</td>
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It was I who suggested reinserting the semen and I do not think that it is the same as poking a hole in a condom or replacing birth control pills with placebos. Withdrawal is not considered a sure method so you are taking your chances anyway.<br><br>
And for heaven's sakes, if you are going to leave semen all over our bed instead of in me, <i>when you know very well that I would like to create a child</i>, then you better believe that I will do with it as I please.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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<span>To the OP: I hope things work out the way you want them to. Perhaps he will come around and welcome a new addition with open arms. At any rate, I hope you find peace with your situation.</span>[/QUOTE]<br><br>
Thank you very much! I actually think he's very torn b/c he says "no more kids, no way" and then every once in awhile feels that he'd like more. He has anxiety issues and feels that we need more money to have more kids. He's trying to go for a better paying job and I asked him if he'd consider more if he got the job and he said definately. So, money's the problem here. (and where is it writtten that you have to pay for 100% of your kids college, etc. anyway? I think it make them better people to have to contribute something!) Actually he told me that even if he doesn't get the better paying job, he'd consider another child in 1-2 years. I just got off of a 1 year maternity leave so money's tight right now. Anyway, he didn't pull out 3 times last sat., so my thought are, "don't tell me you don't want anymore kids, and then not pull out!" In his heart, he really wants more, he's just afraid. I bought a pg test when we were at CVS the other day, and he told me "why are you even buying that test, I already KNOW you're pg!" and then in the car on the way home, he was like "well, at least I'd get to see that sexy swollen belly again!" Plus, I'm very horny when pg, so that's what he really is looking forward to!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmlp</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6219035"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It was I who suggested reinserting the semen and I do not think that it is the same as poking a hole in a condom or replacing birth control pills with placebos. Withdrawal is not considered a sure method so you are taking your chances anyway.<br><br>
And for heaven's sakes, if you are going to leave semen all over our bed instead of in me, <i>when you know very well that I would like to create a child</i>, then you better believe that I will do with it as I please.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:</div>
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I respectfully disagree about reinsertion not being the same as the others. But, I can hear what you are saying.<br><br>
Truce?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy">
 

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cmlp- I think what you are missing is that even if the man "should" have been more responsible or was rude to withdraw IYO, the result will potentially destroy a marriage. So, yes, a woman could win at blaming her ex-husband for not being more careful.<br><br>
I disagree that knowingly and secretly inserting semen in your own vagina is his fault or responsibility...I just don't get your logic at all. How could you even play that off without lying? If you are so offended by the pull-out method than say so, don't do it and then say well you're a jerk and you deserve what you get (in this case a baby). I am not offended by the pull out method...it works for us. And, if it didn't, I would feel that he was completely culpable. Although, perhaps knowing how adament he is about not having another, maybe I should push for better birth control.<br><br>
Marriages don't work with dishonestly and, secretly inserting semen into yourself, well, maybe you could convince yourself you didn't do anything but it would basically be the difference between sperm fertilizing egg or not...pretty big deal to me.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I think what you are missing is that even if the man "should" have been more responsible or was rude to withdraw IYO, the result will potentially destroy a marriage. So, yes, a woman could win at blaming her ex-husband for not being more careful.</td>
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The fact of a one partner refusing the other partner a child can also destroy a marriage. Either one throws a big juggarnaut into it.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I disagree that knowingly and secretly inserting semen in your own vagina is his fault or responsibility...I just don't get your logic at all. How could you even play that off without lying?</td>
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It has nothing to do with lying. The semen goes where it goes. Quite frankly, I am very doubtful that it would succeed in getting a woman pregnant as the woman would most likely not succeed in getting anything close enough to her cervix. If she did get pregnant, there is no telling what caused it. Maybe it was sperm on her fingers, maybe it was sperm that escaped during intercourse. The fact that she has decided to potentially <i>increase</i> her chances of conceiving by inserting her fingers while he has decided to <i>decrease</i> the chances of her conceiving by pulling out early for me makes the whole situation neutral.<br><br>
In fact, perhaps the best solution is for the OP just to <i>do it in front of him</i>. That way there is no deception. He pulls out to decrease chances of conception. She reinserts to increase chances. And then maybe they talk it out, decide together on the <i>definitive</i> way forward and take appropriate measures (i.e. vasectomy to end all potential future children or try to have another child).
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmlp</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6220395"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The fact of a one partner refusing the other partner a child can also destroy a marriage. Either one throws a big juggarnaut into it.</div>
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Sure but at least you don't have another child in the middle! If whether or not to have a child is an impass, then I say either work it out or move on.<br><br>
We're talking about human beings who deserve to be parented by two parents that want them not the products of some power struggle over who should get his/her way.<br><br>
We can just agree to disagree on this one.
 

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as tempting as it is to "oops" my husband, i would never do it. i see it as being exactly the same as him going and getting a vasectomy without my knowledge. either way, it is a permanent thing.<br><br>
actually, that was how i got him to wait on the vasectomy. he was adamant about getting it done, and i was heartbroken. when he thought about it, he actually burst into tears, thinking of how much it would hurt me if he did this, while knowing that i didn't want him to. it would be like me poking holes in a condom. now he understands. and after seeing how much he realized that would hurt me, i know how much it would hurt him for me to sabotage things to create another baby, no matter how much i want one.<br><br>
if we did actually have a legitimate oops, then i know he would step up and love that baby just as much as he loves our other two. but i couldn't live with myself if i sabotaged things to get to that goal...i wouldn't want a child to live with that shadow over their head. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 
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