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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm so frustrated with my dh right now. I'm angry, but I'm not sure I have the right to be. I'll try to explain (it's kind of a long story):<br><br>
Last night was the last game of the season in my husband's kickball league. After the games most of the players go out to a bar afterwards and sometimes we go too. We have a 3mo and I just put her in the sling and she sleeps there while we have a drink or two. Sometimes my dh goes without me because I'm too tired or I know I will be too tired when the baby gets me up at 5am. Last night though I wanted to go out, but when I suggested it my husband said he didn't think many people would be going so he didn't want to go. So at the game when the temp started to drop I decided to take the baby home to put her to bed. Dh said that he thought a couple of our friends were near by and I should give them a call and invite them to the house. I called them when i got home, but apparently I had just missed them. When no one was at the house they decided to go over to the field where DH was playing. I was bummed that I had missed them. If I had known they were coming to the game I might have stayed despited the cold weather. Anyway we decided that they would come over to watch one of our favorite TV shows after the game, so I felt a little less bad. I then went and put the baby to sleep and waited for everyone to come back to the house. It was a little after 8pm and I figured people would be back here around 9:30. I started to doze off a little and woke up at 9:45 to the phone ringing. It was Dh, everyone had decided they would rather go the bar, did I mind if he went too. I said I'd rather he didn't go, but that it didn't mean that he shouldn't go. I think he figured I was asleep so what difference did it make. After I hung up though I knew it was a mistake. I was really angry. I was mad that everyone was blowing me off. I was mad that I had stayed awake (mostly) waiting for them when I could have been in bed cuddling with the babe. I was angry that they hadn't all made the plan earlier to go to the bar, so I would have been able to go also. I was angry that DH didn't see how unfair it was to run off to the bar with our friends while I was stuck at home with the baby. And now because I was so angry I couldn't sleep. I knew I would be wide awake and seething mad until Dh got home. So I decided to call and ask him to come home now. Problem was he didn't have his cell phone. He had told me to call his brother's cell if I needed him, but I didn't have the # and couldn't find his cell to get the #. By now it was 10pm and too late to call his mom for the #. I called dh's best friend (one of the friends he was out with) but apparently bf had forgotten his phone too. Finally I called bf's girlfriend who wasn't in the same car as Dh, but gave me BIL #. I called and finally reached dh and said that I really think he should come home. He said he would.<br><br>
At that point he didn't even seem angry. I was so happy that he was coming home my anger was gone. I was vowing to myself that I would make it up to him, for missing out on the fun with his friends. I figured the baby was good and asleep and I was wide awake, and maybe we could even fool around a little (sorry if that's tmi). When he walked in the door I greated him with a kiss. He asked if there was any dinner left, but he had already finished it all, so I offered to make something. I was still so happy he had come home. He declined my offer. I suggested we watch the TV shows and asked if he wanted to cuddle on the couch. We watched the shows, but he refused to cuddle and instead sat in the chair across the room from me. This was the first sign that he was actually mad at me for asking him to come home. After the first show was over he asked me to go to the store to get him chocolate donuts. He then made a comment that I should go to the store because I made him come home. Even though I wanted to make him happy after he came home. I really resented the implication that I should have to do this, when in truth I still felt it was disrespectful to go to the bar without me in the first place. I said I didn't want to go to the store at 11pm and then he continued on about how unfair it was that he never gets to go out, and I go out all the time. Frankly I don't think it's fair to compare going to a la leche league meeting with the baby to going out to the bar with friends. And since dh works at home, he often is begging us to leave the house so we're not distracting him from getting his work done. And he had already been out doing fun grownup things from 7 until 10 before I asked him to come home. The last time I had 3 hours away from the baby, I was having a mole removed.<br><br>
At that point I felt angry all over again. It was like his only reason for coming home was to avoid a discussion and make me feel guilty. I guess I had hoped he could empathize with the way I felt left out, and that he would come home and we would have spent loving time together. Frankly if he had even just explained that he really felt like he needed some grown up time with friends, I would probably have understood. I just hate when he does what I ask only to spend the next three days making me regret it. It's very passive agressive. Anyway I just went to bed after the two shows were over. He sulked around the house for a while and eventually came to bed. But I woke feeling just as angry as before. I don't know what to do or say to him. I don't want anything to do with him. But at the same time I'm not totally sure that I have the right to be angry when he came home like I asked him to. What do you mama's think?
 

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The solution here is easy. When your DH is finished work, hand him a baby and a expressed bottle and go out for an hour. Don't ask, just do it.<br><br>
The implication for a lot of guys is that they would never ASK for the time to go out and be an adult. They just do it. It isn't something they think is a discussion item. So, don't make it one. Give him his child and go be an adult for an hour.
 

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Listen to Demeter.
 

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I think, and this is only my opinion so you can throw it out if you don't like it, that this is misplaced energy on both of your parts.<br><br><br>
For starters, getting angry at your spouse because they want grown up time (as you put it) will build up a wall. You both should accept that you both need grown up time.<br><br>
I agree that he had time with friends at the game and if you wanted him to come home he should, but I don't think it is fair to tell your spouse that it is ok for them to go out, which you did the first time around even though you expressed you would like him to come home, and then on their way to the event call them and tell them you changed your mind.<br><br>
If you did not want him going you should have spoken up in the first place, and you should explain why. That is my opinion, honesty first time around. It's hard putting it into action though because sometimes you want to be understanding and put yourself second. My rule for myself is if I say it is ok the first time around, and then change my mind later then it is my fault and I have no one to be mad at but myself. If I tell them I don't want them to do something but they choose to do it anyways then I cross that bridge when it comes. But I pick and choose my battles.<br><br><br>
I Understand why you were miffed, you laid it out very well. No one likes to feel left out and you shouldn't be made to feel that way. But in retro spec it isn't like your husband forced your friends to come to the game when you called their house and they weren't home and I don't think anyone forced you to go home but your own choices. You said yourself that you could have braved out the cold weather if you wanted to but you didn't.<br><br><br><br>
So that is why I think YOUR anger is misplaced.<br><br><br>
Your husbands anger is misplaced too in my opinion, yet again, just my opinion. I understand his reasons too, at least superficially, that he was told he was in the clear to go hang out with people and then you decided to change that answer en route to the bar. Your husband should be more understanding and you guys should have clear defined plans before you head out, like to the game, with 'what if we get invited? what if I feel like going and you dont?' optional plans talked out. I don't think he should be taking it out on you, but honestly he is not a mind reader. It isn't like he KNEW you had plans to fool around and typically when my SO says 'cuddle' I automatically assume it is 100% non sexually related. Why? Because she likes to just cuddle and not feel like there has to be sex afterwards to get them. That goes both ways though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br><br><br>
Anyways, pick your battles. this is a minor one and you can't control how he is going to feel, but you can control how you will react to those emotions. I don't think either of you SHOULD be mad at this situation, however what 'should' be felt and what 'is' felt is often 2 different feelings. if that makes sense.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8127311"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The solution here is easy. When your DH is finished work, hand him a baby and a expressed bottle and go out for an hour. Don't ask, just do it.<br><br>
The implication for a lot of guys is that they would never ASK for the time to go out and be an adult. They just do it. It isn't something they think is a discussion item. So, don't make it one. Give him his child and go be an adult for an hour.</div>
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but he did ask.... he called and asked if it was ok.... she said yes.... this is not a solution, this is the beginning of a cold war.
 

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and martyrdom is conduct unbecoming for both of oyu. Sit down and deside what day you stays home, go out for a date together, pcik an activity you can do regualry (yougsa, book club whaterver)
 

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Honestly, it sounds to me like you were disappointed in the way the situation turned out, but your anger towards your DH seems a bit misplaced. He didn't create the situation - group activities often go like that. Someone makes a suggestion and everyone just goes, "ok cool, lets do that instead". I understand you felt left out, but it doesn't seem anyone was meaning anything malicious towards you. It was the last game and they wanted to go out for a drink after. Understandable, IMO.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>junipermuse</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8127267"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And he had already been out doing fun grownup things from 7 until 10 before I asked him to come home. The last time I had 3 hours away from the baby, I was having a mole removed.</div>
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This jumped out at me as something I did when I was a new mom, especially a new SAHM. I did this comparing thing A LOT and no good ever came of it. I was always mad because DH got to be with adults all the time, and he was mad because I got to be with the kids all the time. Comparing woes does nothing but pit you and your H against each other, in a who-has-it-worse contest. It's not a contest. You are both doing different jobs, and each has it's own limitations. Sounds like your situation is a bit different, in that your H is home all the time, too. But you still have different roles and different challenges. Instead of using those difference against one another, work together to find a way to balance both of your needs. You both need time to yourselves and with friends. You might not get that every single time you need it, but if you both make an effort to help one another, there's more of a chance for both of you get your needs met.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think what bothered me was that there were several solutions that could have resulted in everyone being happy. If I had known that going to the bar was a possibility (Dh had already told me it wasn't) I would have planned to keep the baby up and meet everyone at the bar, but it wasn't until everyone was on their way to the bar that I was even told about it. I wasn't asked to join either. Also the friends and I and dh had already agreed that everyone would come back to our house (the baby was fast asleep so this would have been grownup time too) after the game and then instead they all decided to do something else with out me. I felt like dh should have known that changing the plans like that might bother me. Once again though, if the plans had been made ahead of time I might have been okay with it. With advanced notice I could have decided to join everyone at the bar or stayed home and enjoyed my shows, but at this point I had stayed up past my bedtime waiting for everyone only to be ditched at the last minute. That's what made me mad. I have no problem with my dh wanting to go out without the baby, or even without me, I just want to know ahead of time. Also I don't think dh was upset about me chaning my mind. He would have been just as upset if I had said to come home in the first place. My changing my mind was minor and frankly it thought it was better that I was being honest about my level of upsetness than to tell him to go out only to be livid with him when he came home.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Yoshua</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8127487"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">but he did ask.... he called and asked if it was ok.... she said yes.... this is not a solution, this is the beginning of a cold war.</div>
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Yes, and he thinks that going out with baby IS adult time clearly. He asked. She asked. He's mad. She's mad. He's being up front. She's being upfront. He's clearly allowed to have time. She's clearly allowed to feel left out and only really realise it an hour later.<br><br>
If she just stops talking and takes some time for herself, she'd be much happier. And he'd adapt, because he is just as responsible for his child as she even if he doesn't like it at first.<br><br>
There really isn't anything to discuss.
 

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Yoshua almost always makes perfect sense. I would listen to his advice, and not to those who seem to treat their partners as recalcitrant children or bad room-mates.<br><br>
"Handing him a bottle" and leaving the home, without communication, reasonableness or respect is rude and really petty… it’s a recipe for disaster in a relationship because it is horribly immature. If you both want "adult time" (and you should both get that) then you need to work that out together in a reasonable way.<br><br>
To some who have suggested the "handing him a bottle" bit:<br><br>
If your husband or wife calls and asks if it’s okay to go out with friends, and you tell him or her "okay" - what is WRONG with that? Why be militant and nasty? Where is that going to get you? Changing your mind mid-stream is your own choice, the husband or wife who is out enjoying him or herself shouldn't be held hostage to changing whims.<br><br>
OP: Your husband should be your best friend in the world, and you should be his. You said that it was okay for him to go out. Changing your mind afterwards and working yourself into a lather because you can't find the right phone number is your own choice. Deciding to stay awake and not go to bed before 9:30 is your own choice. People might not have you top-of-mind when they are making plans after a sporting event. Your husband did, and that’s why HE called you and asked. Nobody else owes you that call. You need to deal with this stuff yourself.<br><br>
The way he expressed his resentment and frustration to you was not the right way to go about it.<br><br>
From what I read in your post (I don’t know you at all, just going on this bit of information) you both need to work on your communication…. I know that is cliché, but it’s true in this case. It’s not worth getting so angry about, it’s really not. It takes too much energy to get so mad about something so inconsequential. It drains you both and it’s a waste.
 

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Hmmm. So is it also immature when men leave their houses and their children in the care of their mother without first "discussing" going out of the house? I would guess it IS NOT. But for some reason, it is immature to leave a child in the care of the child's completely capable MALE parent.<br><br>
Okay then.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8128279"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes, and he thinks that going out with baby IS adult time clearly. He asked. She asked. He's mad. She's mad. He's being up front. She's being upfront. He's clearly allowed to have time. She's clearly allowed to feel left out and only really realise it an hour later.<br><br>
If she just stops talking and takes some time for herself, she'd be much happier. And he'd adapt, because he is just as responsible for his child as she even if he doesn't like it at first.<br><br>
There really isn't anything to discuss.</div>
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There should always be discussion in a healthy relationship, you should never assume something because it will come back to bite you 100% of the time when you are wrong.<br><br><br>
There is nothing wrong with her saying 'I am going out for xxxxx today when you are done with work, will you need anything other than breast milk in a bottle?'<br><br>
Or even to be polite about it 'do you mind if' instead of 'i am going out'.<br><br><br>
Open communication keeps everyone on the know and no one feeling left out, why would it be ok to make her husband feel the way she felt when obviously she was upset about it?<br><br><br><br>
Communication is always required, unless you are a psychic or a mind reader, it is always polite to make sure everything is on the up and up. I never said she shouldn't have adult time. I said open communication is required. What you purpose is, to me, basically attempting to make your spouse understand how he made YOU feel through actions instead of words. If you want a blow up knock down drag out argument in the end when both people are tired of being walked on, go for it. I would rather have open communication and avoid the games. You can say 'it isn't a game, she deserves her adult time'. No one disagreed with that, however I am surprised that open communication is being seen as something negative. Unless I am reading your posts wrong, then I apologize for any miscommunications we are having.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8128329"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hmmm. So is it also immature when men leave their houses and their children in the care of their mother without first "discussing" going out of the house? I would guess it IS NOT. But for some reason, it is immature to leave a child in the care of the child's completely capable MALE parent.<br><br>
Okay then.</div>
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<br><br>
Yes, 100% of the time it is immature when a parent, male or female, leave without notifying their partner of where they are going. leaving them to worry about when they are coming home or where they are going. Unless of course you already have built up a relationship where that is normal.<br><br>
Okay then.
 

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A woman should not need any more PERMISSION to leave the confines of her home for a couple of hours any more than the male parent does.
 

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I definitely think that if you and your dh and friends had plans to be at your house, then your dh at least should have come home. He wouldn't be able to control what your friends did but it would have been nice if he told everyone you had plans and went home.<br><br>
However, he did call you and asked if he could go out and you did tell him yes (in a round about way). If you didn't want him to go out then you should have just said that straight out.<br><br>
I think you both have a right to be angry but both of you could have reacted better.
 

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Sometimes eveything that needs to be said is already said. Or as my DH would put it, saying it again won't make me hear it better.<br><br>
Sometimes, changing one's actions to not NEED permission from the other parent is the answer. In seeking permission it clearly puts the oneous on the other parent to be inconvenienced and OBJECT to having to parent.<br><br>
Some things only need one person to change to change the whole of the situation by changing the underlying expectations in the roles being assumed.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8128353"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">A woman should not need any more PERMISSION to leave the confines of her home for a couple of hours any more than the male parent does.</div>
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I agree. see we are agreeing now.<br><br>
Both people should have the respect for eachother to make sure everything is ok. Male or Female.<br><br>
Agreeing is nice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br><br><br>
Oh, and I wouldn't be in a partnership both people should be able to voice opinions about the others goings ons. At least in any partnership I've been in where everything worked great. No way would I be in a relationship with someone who didn't have the respect to tell me where they were going and making sure there was no other obligations to be taken care of.<br><br><br>
It is common courtesy when I call my SO after work and tell her my friend J invited me out to the bar. I then am told weather or not I am forgetting about something I need to take care of at home and if she has no issues with me goin out with J then I do. If she needs me at home for some reason I reschedule with J. That is open communication.<br><br>
If she needs time with E or A or even C she lets me know and either she takes the kiddo with her or the kiddo and I stay at home and play games/entertain eachother. There are times when I take the Kiddo to the park just the 2 of us. That is because sometimes we need to hang out, while I teach him to ride his bike or watching him on the play ground. That doesn't mean I take the kiddo and go. I clear it with my SO first before I go because it is courteous to do so.
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8128427"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sometimes eveything that needs to be said is already said. Or as my DH would put it, saying it again won't make me hear it better.<br><br>
Sometimes, changing one's actions to not NEED permission from the other parent is the answer. In seeking permission it clearly puts the oneous on the other parent to be inconvenienced and OBJECT to having to parent.<br><br>
Some things only need one person to change to change the whole of the situation by changing the underlying expectations in the roles being assumed.</div>
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No snark here at all.<br><br>
That really works in your household and no one ever gets miffed feelings about not being heard? That is awesome if you found 2 people who are similar like that. I'm not, so I can only give advice from my point of view.<br><br>
But even if someone DOES want to start handling things in the way you describe, do you really think you should just START doing it without talking to the other person about it first? Change CAN be for the good, I agree. But unless everyone in the PARTNERSHIP knows change is coming, that isn't fair in my opinion.
 

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But not all guys "get it." They really think that because they do more than their Daddy did, that they are being Mr. Fantastic. That the unvoiced thought (and often consciously thought) is that "but all the other women are always with their children" "women through all time didn't need this" "but all the other women can do it" "but my Mom never needed time away from us" etc.<br><br>
So they THINK they are being good. Hence, the thought that going to LLL is the same "to a woman" as going to the sports bar for him. That asking for more is unreasonable.<br><br>
Not everyone thinks through their own assumptions about roles and expectation and where they come from. And they resist deviation from their understanding of the roles they assume. So, applying the same standard of expectations they resist both appeals to logic and emotion. Because they BELIEVE in their heart of hearts that they are being good, and that the woman in question is being unreasonable in bucking what he already "knows" is the "way it is."<br><br>
That in talking and waiting for him to get on board, he really is interpreting it as asking for permission. And he reluctantly agrees - but doesn't really do anything to make it easier or better. He is granting "permission" for his wife to go out. And cannot understand why she's pissed about it.<br><br>
Talking only goes so far. It assumes that one is aware of all of the under lying presumptions, known and unconscious, are on the table. They aren't. One literally would have to be a mind reader to get them all out.<br><br>
And then there would be the argument about "you always think you know what I'm thinking!" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Yoshua</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8128475"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No snark here at all.<br><br>
That really works in your household and no one ever gets miffed feelings about not being heard? That is awesome if you found 2 people who are similar like that. I'm not, so I can only give advice from my point of view.<br><br>
But even if someone DOES want to start handling things in the way you describe, do you really think you should just START doing it without talking to the other person about it first? Change CAN be for the good, I agree. But unless everyone in the PARTNERSHIP knows change is coming, that isn't fair in my opinion.</div>
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Oh no. I talked my little heart out. I brought out studies. I appealled to logic. I wrote an essay on it. I did a diagram. I reference cross cultural data. I asked questions. Partook of marital counselling.<br><br>
Then, I realized that there was nothing left to say. It was MUCH easier for him to not actually ever "let" me do anything. Saying no, or "acting out" no is almost always easier than having to actually CHANGE.<br><br>
So I changed it. And he's a much much much better man for it.
 
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