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My sister just gave birth to a baby in another city. We were tentatively making plans to visit, when my BIL (a doctor) remembered that DS (17 months) is not vax'ed. He apparently consulted with some dr friends who concurred that the baby should not be in contact with DS. We were uninvited from our visit, and told that DS cannot meet his new cousin until the new baby is vax'ed. Well, I wasn't looking forward to taking DS on a plane anyway...<br><br>
But I admit I am alarmed that they are so concerned about DS' vax status, since this isn't an issue I have heard about. Mostly you hear about the risk to the unvax'ed kids. And of course there is the argument of all the older relatives whose immunity has worn off - are they going to be tested before they are allowed near the baby? So I said if BIL has any specifics about the risks that he could send me I would appreciate it. And btw, at what age exactly does my child start becoming a risk? At 6-12 mo when he is overdue for DPT but not yet late for MMR, is he a risk for exposing a younger baby to pertussis, but not yet a risk for exposing one to measles? Hmm... And this part I like the best - my sister says they can meet after her baby is "fully vax'ed" but she didn't know exactly when that would be, because she has no idea what shots are given when, how many, etc. - just operating on a doctor's word and blind faith, of course!<br><br>
I did a bit of googling but not even sure how to search on this issue - "carrier" doesn't give you much. Any help pointing me in the direction of some useful arguments would be much appreciated!<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Dee in BC
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7989623"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Total paranoid bs.<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: Talk about spreading myths by doctors <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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I think if your DS is healthy, he should be able to visit. MY main fear of people being unvax'ed is pertussis, since I know a family whose baby died from pertussis. (They believe she caught it from an older man on the bus, who had a hacking cough - but there's no way to know for sure.)<br>
Since pertussis would be very obvious in your DS,(since kids get the "whoop" in whooping cough, and adults don't usually) I wouldn't be worried at all. Its sad that this doctor BIL doesn't know enough about medicine to realize that.<br><br>
Maybe remind him that if the baby is breastfed he's already immune? And if he isn't breastfed, remind him how much more dangerous formula is than not being vax'ed.
 

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Let's also not forget that people who are vaccinated often carry diseases around, passing them on to others!<br><br>
I would stop discussing your vax status with them -- sounds like they hold that info over your head.
 

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I would think that if they are so concerned, they should prevent any and all people from seeing their new baby. Vaccinated people carry disease causing microbes on their persons the same way unvaccinated people do. The only difference, in theory, is that the vaccinated person won't get the disease. They can still sure as hell pass it along though.<br><br>
The only difference between a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person is their own personal ability to become ill. If their doctor told them to avoid unvax'ed children, he obviously knows next to nothing about the immune system.<br><br>
That's just whacko.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>crunchy~mamax3</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7990761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think if your DS is healthy, he should be able to visit. MY main fear of people being unvax'ed is pertussis, since I know a family whose baby died from pertussis. (They believe she caught it from an older man on the bus, who had a hacking cough - but there's no way to know for sure.)<br>
Since pertussis would be very obvious in your DS,(since kids get the "whoop" in whooping cough, and adults don't usually) I wouldn't be worried at all. Its sad that this doctor BIL doesn't know enough about medicine to realize that.<br><br>
Maybe remind him that if the baby is breastfed he's already immune? And if he isn't breastfed, remind him how much more dangerous formula is than not being vax'ed.</div>
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The pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission of pertussis....<br><br>
-Angela
 

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I just bumped up my <i>"I did it for Sophia"</i> thread.<br><br>
Ask your BIL how old he was when he received his last dose of DTP - I guarantee you that it was before seven years of age.<br><br>
If anyone is putting his newborn at risk - it's him and his wife . . . and don't forget grandma and grandpa.
 

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Yeah, the pertussis vax mediates symptoms, it doesn't prevent the transmission of the disease. Two totally different things. Fully vaccinated children and adults still catch and spread pertussis, they just don't get the severe symptoms. The pertussis vaccine does not work to cause immunity to the bacteria in most people. It even makes some people <i>more</i> susceptible to infection than they were before being vaccinated. It does make you somewhat immune to the toxins, though, and since it's the toxins that cause all of the pertussis symptoms, it can prevent severe disease, but NOT infection.<br><br>
OP, I think your relatives are being completely ridiculous. I would ask them to explain all the inconsistencies. For instance, if your son was 11 months old and hadn't received MR, would they say you couldn't visit, since he could possibly have M, M or R? Or do M, M and R only happen in children over 12 months of age in their world? If your son was 3 months old and "fully vaccinated" for his age, that would mean he wasn't immune to anything and could potentially transmit any disease, so would they refuse your visit? Are they planning on requiring vaccination records for all visitors? Will they require that all adults receive tdap before visiting, since adults are the main ones to transmit pertussis to infants? Have they received the tdap? Are they aware that most adults vaccinated with MMR will no longer be immune by their 30's or so? So will they require all adults to receive another MMR vaccine before visiting? I would literally ask them all those questions. I personally wouldn't even care about visiting people who were so ignorant and mean, but I <i>would</i> ask the questions, because I refuse to let ignorant people believe that my child is a threat to their child, while at the same time completely ignoring all the other potential "threats" in the environment. It's stupid and they need a good, swift kick in the rear to wake them up. If they then insist on remaining ignorant, at least you'll have made your point. They won't think they know more than you.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>deedee0</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7989593"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do unvax'ed kids pose a risk to new babies?</div>
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No, but recently vaccinated (with live vaccines) kids do.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"> Plummeting<br><br>
It's highly doubtful those coming into contact with the baby will have had the following vaccines:<br><br>
Hepatitis B<br>
Hepatitis A<br>
Chicken pox<br>
Pneumococcal<br>
Hib<br>
Rotavirus<br>
MMR (second dose)<br>
Meningococcal<br>
Tdap<br><br>
And vaxers call <i><b>us</b></i> paranoid.
 

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If your BIL is that paranoid did he also encourage your sister to have a home birth to avoid exposing the baby potential infections at the hospital? And has he been refusing to see any potentially infectious patients in his medical practice?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Plummeting</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7991685"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, the pertussis vax mediates symptoms, it doesn't prevent the transmission of the disease. Two totally different things. Fully vaccinated children and adults still catch and spread pertussis, they just don't get the severe symptoms. The pertussis vaccine does not work to cause immunity to the bacteria in most people. It even makes some people <i>more</i> susceptible to infection than they were before being vaccinated. It does make you somewhat immune to the toxins, though, and since it's the toxins that cause all of the pertussis symptoms, it can prevent severe disease, but NOT infection.<br><br>
OP, I think your relatives are being completely ridiculous. I would ask them to explain all the inconsistencies. For instance, if your son was 11 months old and hadn't received MR, would they say you couldn't visit, since he could possibly have M, M or R? Or do M, M and R only happen in children over 12 months of age in their world? If your son was 3 months old and "fully vaccinated" for his age, that would mean he wasn't immune to anything and could potentially transmit any disease, so would they refuse your visit? Are they planning on requiring vaccination records for all visitors? Will they require that all adults receive tdap before visiting, since adults are the main ones to transmit pertussis to infants? Have they received the tdap? Are they aware that most adults vaccinated with MMR will no longer be immune by their 30's or so? So will they require all adults to receive another MMR vaccine before visiting? I would literally ask them all those questions. I personally wouldn't even care about visiting people who were so ignorant and mean, but I <i>would</i> ask the questions, because I refuse to let ignorant people believe that my child is a threat to their child, while at the same time completely ignoring all the other potential "threats" in the environment. It's stupid and they need a good, swift kick in the rear to wake them up. If they then insist on remaining ignorant, at least you'll have made your point. They won't think they know more than you.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><br><br>
I'd probably not be so polite about it... Sounds like BIL is trying to take out his 'non vaxing' patient frustrations on you....<br><br>
I'd be more worried about recently vax'd children visiting, and for goodness sake, hand washing and watching for obviously sick guests coming close to baby should help prevent most issues...vax'd or not.<br><br>
Unfortunately they are family, and so I guess you need to be civil and keep it friendly...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
Good luck on that one, and gees, it'd be a cold day in a very warm place before I'd go visit...
 

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i'm sorry you won't get to meet the newest member of your family since thier parent's are so uninformed and ignorant.<br><br>
you've gotten several great rhetorical questiosn, but i don't think they'll make a difference to people like them.
 

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How old is BIL?<br><br>
Tell him to check his own titers. Might be time for a few boosters himself. Although I'm sure he'd have no problem with that.
 

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That is really rude of them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Good luck with your situation, I hope it works out.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Yulia_R</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7991718"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No, but recently vaccinated (with live vaccines) kids do.</div>
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Exactly what I was thinking!
 

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He is a doctor, what did you expect?<br><br>
I am sorry for the newborn. I bet he'll get plenty of his free samples.
 

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Sick people pose a risk to new babies. Any child, vaccinated or not vaccinated, may be carrying an illness.<br><br>
However, if your child is healthy, there is absolutely no reason they should be afraid, and vaccination is not a cure, it's a preventative measure. So there's no reason your child should be a danger to the baby.<br><br>
By the way- where I live, responsible parents do not let their pre-vaccinated children play with other children who may have been exposed to the most severe childhood diseases. If there is an outbreak, it is common to keep a small baby at home away from all people who have not had the disease or been vaccinated. I don't think it's hysteria or some kind of psychosis- just common sense.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Gitti</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7998965"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He is a doctor, what did you expect?<br><br>
I am sorry for the newborn. I bet he'll get plenty of his free samples.</div>
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I'd personally have expected better of a doctor. Any person has the capacity to be an idiot, but he did go through med school. You'd think some basic immunology would have sunk in somewhere <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 
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