[Luthien Arcamenel]

I was just thinking of this while reading the "Or I'll leave you behind... thread".

I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground. I'm always complimented on their good behaviour.

Now while I was reading the above mentioned thread, my thought was that my gentle methods are setting a good example for other parents. On the other hand I realized, no probably not. I no longer use any apparent gentle methods with the. They are of the ages where they simply do, therefore the average parent sees me say "Come on now, we still have a few more places to stop today, and you shouldn't really be out here much longer without sunblock anyway babes." Then they see my boys happily say ok and race each other to the car. They have no idea how my boys got to this point, they just see them there.

Well... do you think this helps to shorten their fuse with their own not-so-negotiable child? I mean I can only imagine that an already mortified parent of a hyper child in a resturaunt would be made even more uncomfortable by a well-behaved child at the next booth, and therefore perhaps a bit more snappish, kwim?

If you think I'm on to something here, do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect?

Thanks fore reading. and please respond.

And my thought/point made much more clear and understandable:

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuller2 I think the OP makes a lot of sense, and that it is an excellent question. If a parent is losing it with their kid for whatever reason, and they see a 'good' kid being easy and agreeable, they may get even angrier at their own kid and as a result, behave in a way that is not helpful. I think people often tend to be harder disciplinarians in front of other people because they are worried about what the others will think, and so a 'good' kid might actually cause another child to be treated more harshly in public. It would be nice if other parents would simply learn by the GD example, and I do think they often do--but sometimes parents will just be too angry, exhausted and self-conscious to learn, and will instead feel inadequate and embarassed when they compare their 'bad' child to the 'good' one. You can't really do anything about that, but I certainly think it's a possibility.

Thank you fuller2!

 

[townmouse]

 

[aisraeltax]

i think its a good point. i sometimes think that way with my teen.

 

[cmb123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lúthien Arcamenel do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect?

Like..."don't hate me "cause my kids are perfect"

 

[bullfrog]

My children are sometimes well behaved - sometimes not. I never compare them to other kids.
Do you really think it's your responsibility to cushion the effect your well behaved children have on other families? I don't get that at all.

 

[octobermom]

By DD is very well behaved 99% of the time I just enjoy the times and when I see another mom struggling with theirs I just remember what its like when things don't go well for me. I not intemidated by well behaving kids. I did realize though "modeling GD" really didn't include when DD coperates its easy to be the "good" parent then even a punitive parent when kids are doing it all has no need to "punish" its when things aren't perfect I model. I model patience "firmness" gentleness problem soloving..

 

[CalBearMama]

Well, from the perspective of someone whose 21-month-old son can be pretty "hyper" while all of the other kids in the restaurant are being "good," I will admit that it is sometimes very difficult not to feel embarrassed and worry that everyone else around thinks I'm a bad parent. I'm pretty good at keeping these feelings of insecurity from affecting my behavior toward DS, but unfortunately, my DH is not as confident in his own parenting. He is always saying things like, "We must have done something wrong because DS refuses to sit in a high chair while all of the other little kids just sit there quietly." DH also tends to get more visibly frustrated with DS when we're in such situations, whereas when we're alone with DS at home, DH is very kind and patient with him.

To keep myself from getting all worked up and impatient / hostile with DS, there are a few key things that I keep reminding myself:

1. The behavior DS is exhibiting is age-appropriate, and if I'm embarrassed by it, then it's my fault for putting him in a situation in which such behavior is unacceptable.

2. DS is happy, bright, good-natured, friendly, fun-loving and inquisitive. Although I fear that people will react negatively to his behavior, the reality is that most of the time when he insists on walking around the restaurant saying "hi" to everyone he meets, the vast majority of the people are delighted to talk and interact with him and think it's really cool that he's so friendly and confident. So, if I have a problem with him not sitting in a high chair and eating quietly until DH and I finish eating, it's that my dinner is being interrupted, and again, that's something I can deal with because I shouldn't really be expecting him to sit there so long at his age.

3. If other kids DS's age are behaving "better" than he is by sitting quietly and not making a "nuisance" of themselves, the reality is that they're not getting as much out of the experience as DS is. He is sitting on my lap or DH's lap, giving us hugs, talking to us, talking to everyone who walks by our table, asking to try different foods, etc. etc. If other kids his age have learned to sit there quietly and not demand anything from their parents, maybe that's because they've been parented in such a way that they're no longer inquisitive, interested, or engaged in their surroundings, and they have no expectation that their parents will respond to their demands. I don't know, maybe this is just my lame attempt to justify DS's behavior, but it seems like non-AP parents who use methods like CIO and have minimal physical contact with their babies often end up with the "good" toddlers who will sit quietly and not bother anyone. (This is not to slam anyone who has a child who is naturally well-behaved, especially if that good behavior is the result of years of conscientious parenting and gentle discipline - it's just that from my own experience, I have a hard time believing that a toddler should be expected to sit quietly for any length of time.)

Anyway, I don't know that any of this really responds to the original post. But I just wanted to chime in and say that if you have well-behaved kids as a result of your thoughtful parenting of them, good for you, and keep up the good work! And if others around you become more harsh in their own parenting in response to seeing your children's good behavior, that's their own issue to deal with, not yours, and it's certainly not your fault if someone chooses to discipline their children differently than you do. I suppose it might sometimes be possible for you to say something if you see another parent who is visibly frustrated by their child's "bad" behavior, but like all unsolicited parenting advice, I would definitely keep it low-key. Maybe something like, "Isn't it hard when they don't want to leave the park when you're ready to go? It's too bad there are no easy solutions - it's really taken us years to get where we are." Maybe that would open the door enough to allow them to ask what has worked for you, if they're really interested.

 

[captain crunchy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmb123 Like..."don't hate me "cause my kids are perfect"

I don't think "well-behvaved" children make it more difficult for "other" children... I think parents of "well-behaved" children do though sometimes.

Children are "well-behaved" for a variety of reasons though. I was the perfect angel in public because I knew if I wasn't I would get the crap beat outta me --eh, I mean "spanked". So I don't think anything of it when I see "well-behaved" children. A child's behavior in a 5 minute span doesn't determine how I may or may not look at the parent, or more importantly, how gentle the parent may or may not be.

I guess I am a little

: at the "well-behaved" and "other " children remark. It doesn't sit well with me though I kind of get what you meant.

 

[4evermom]

It is always a joy to see happy children being talked to like real people, even when mine is being exceptionally challenging. But I am not at all insecure about my parenting skills, either.

 

[LynnS6]

As several others have pointed out, it really depends on what you mean by "good behavior". If you're the kind of parent who always compares your kids to other kids, you are constantly going to feel inadequate. I've seen kids exhibit 'good' behavior that makes me cringe because that behavior is docile. These kids have been taught not to make a fuss, not to make a mess, not to explore. I know that's not what you're saying about your kids, but I guess I worry about "good" behavior. I worry that parents are expecting their children to maintain behavior standards that are either developmentally beyond their capabilities or are meant to make the lives of the adults around them easier.

My kids are generally cooperative because we work HARD on that for everyone in the family. They also know that I take their needs and desires seriously, and that I'm honest with them. They also do great on errands because we never go more than one or two places at a time. I've learned from solid experience that going 3 places will ensure a meltdown by one of my two kids. So, yes, they look 'great', when they're out, because I recognize their limits (and mine!), not because I'm a super parent.

But the definition of 'good behavior' is a really slippery slope, IMO. Sometimes we leave the park before they're ready -- because I need to go home. And I'll state that. "I'm tired and grumpy and need to go home and rest." In these situations, they fuss a bit (but not long unless I have messed up and let them get too tired/hungry too). Is that well behaved? I think so because they are able to take my needs into account, even if it's just a little bit and not too cheerfully. (But heck, I'm sometimes not too cheerful when ds calls me back into his room the 4th time to get something for him when he's supposed to be falling asleep.)

But, when we're at the zoo or out for a walk, I let them run ahead of me. They (usually) stop at the corner or when they can't see me (we're working hard with dd on 'please stay where YOU can see ME'). I let them explore. I let dd climb up on walls and practice walking as if it's a balance beam. To me, it's an important part of being a kid - to be able to explore and see what the limits of your abilities are. We work hard on respecting other people's space when we do that, but still, they're out there running around, not following me, not carefully looking at the animals and moving on. They can get loud. Is that good behavior? To some parents, this could be seen as 'wild' or 'unsafe' or 'bad' (I've heard it called all three). To me it is 'good behavior' because it's age appropriate, and we're in an environment where it's OK (at least for me).

If I lose my temper (happening too frequently lately -- one more day of summer school and then I can catch up on SLEEP), and my son yells back "DON'T YELL AT ME!" is that good behavior? I am pleased to see it because it shows that he has a good sense of respect for himself and that he's not afraid to make me aware of it. So it's healthy behavior.

I also try really hard to model out loud some of my thoughts about parenting. If other parents want to take my kids' "good behavior" and use it as a reason to be harsh, alas, that's their problem. If they want to take my kids' "bad" behavior and use that as a reason to feel superior, that's their problem. I parent according to my convictions, not popular opinion.

 

[irinam]

Chiming in to agree that no matter how children are disciplined, the "outcome" at any given moment is different.

Sometimes my GD'd daughter will do like you describe and happily run to the car

Sometimes she will go with upteen "Why's" and a lengthy discussion about the way Aunt Mary's feelings may be hurt if we did not make it for dinner at her house on time would ensue.

Sometimes she will be tired and cranky and unreasonable and not resemble a "well behaved child" AT ALL.

 

[AngieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnS6 As several others have pointed out, it really depends on what you mean by "good behavior". If you're the kind of parent who always compares your kids to other kids, you are constantly going to feel inadequate. I've seen kids exhibit 'good' behavior that makes me cringe because that behavior is docile. These kids have been taught not to make a fuss, not to make a mess, not to explore. I know that's not what you're saying about your kids, but I guess I worry about "good" behavior. I worry that parents are expecting their children to maintain behavior standards that are either developmentally beyond their capabilities or are meant to make the lives of the adults around them easier.

Yes!!!

My sister has a step daughter that she is raising who is "perfect" all the time. The little girl has had a rough life and has been passed around from one family member to another a lot. She is a total people pleaser and my sister thinks it's all because she is such a great parent. Enter my 3 kiddo's, happy, loud, exploring and they all have a back bone and use it!! She is always pointing out to me how "good" sdd is and always picking at my kids. It's gotten me to the point where I don't want to be around them anymore. SDD has picked up on it and now points out if my kids do something and then says "I was being good" or something like that. I really don't like the kid and I know it's wrong of me but I just don't.

Ok I've lost what my point was going to be, but that's my experience with a good kid. I think it's more about how the parent handles it than how the kids act.

 

[frontierpsych]

What bugs me is that some parents might take that as an opportunity to tell their kids whne they don't listen the first time that they should be mre like *your* kids.

It makes me sad when I hear people comparing kids to one another in that manner...

 

[Dechen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lúthien Arcamenel I was just thinking of this while reading the "Or I'll leave you behind... thread". I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground. I'm always complimented on their good behaviour. Now while I was reading the above mentioned thread, my thought was that my gentle methods are setting a good example for other parents. On the other hand I realized, no probably not. I no longer use any apparent gentle methods with the. They are of the ages where they simply do, therefore the average parent sees me say "Come on now, we still have a few more places to stop today, and you shouldn't really be out here much longer without sunblock anyway babes." Then they see my boys happily say ok and race each other to the car. They have no idea how my boys got to this point, they just see them there. Well... do you think this helps to shorten their fuse with their own not-so-negotiable child? I mean I can only imagine that an already mortified parent of a hyper child in a resturaunt would be made even more uncomfortable by a well-behaved child at the next booth, and therefore perhaps a bit more snappish, kwim? If you think I'm on to something here, do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect? Thanks fore reading. and please respond.

Perfect gd does automatically result in well behaved children.

I think *easy* kids make it hard for spirited kids, no matter how the children are parented.

I think the notion that a child who is not compliant is the product of the "wrong" discipline method makes it hard for the parents of spirited kids.

 

[Momtwice]

I agree with describing kids like this as "easy." Or perhaps "quiet."

 

[kindacrunchy]

AMEN to that! I had a "friend" who told me it looked as if I let DS run the house. DS is very intelligent and spirited. Her son is very much an easy, rule follwoing, does what people tell him kid. He follows my kid around and wants to do everything he is doing. I have been very AP with him and am trying despeately to be very GD with him (3.5 yo and new babe has been very, very taxing) and she, not so much. I, too, have had times where DS was very cooperative in public and other times, not so much. It is not always nurutre, it's nature, too

 

[SunRayeMomi]

It's an interesting thought in theory, but makes me a little nervous knowing that this little belly bean that is coming in October could be the exact opposite in personality of the "good, well-behaved, perfect little angel" daughter I currently have. So I choose to try and not feel superior just because I was blessed with an *easy* child. Although I know GD has a lot to do with it, she really always has been easily disciplined and joyful.

 

[Fuamami]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieB SDD has picked up on it and now points out if my kids do something and then says "I was being good" or something like that. I really don't like the kid and I know it's wrong of me but I just don't.

Poor thing! Maybe she's afraid that they'll move her on to someone else if she acts out. And if your sister talks a lot about how she's "good", that might make her feel even more like she better be good or they won't like her and she'll be abandoned again. That sucks.

 

[faithnj]

Yes OP, I do feel uncomfortable when my child's pleasant behavior and abilities are being compared favorably against the behavior and abilities of other children.

I usually make excuses, or bring up the times when her behavior was less than stellar to try to level the playing fireld, so to speak. Or else I say she's doing this or that cause teaching sign language gives kids a jump-start, and then I recommend the DVD I used. Anything to explain it all away.

I'm not yet ready to have the kid that other people say "Why can't you be more like her???" But I guess I better try and figure out how I'm going to get comfortable with it-- because it's already happening. And not only is it embarrasing for me, but I can't imagine what effect it's going to have on DD. Yesterday a mother of two seriously insisted that DD was a genius. (I'm not an expert, but I don't think DD is a genius. Her behavior may not be common, but it's definitely not unheard of.) Today someone said she acts like a 3 year old. (That's true. LOL!) I better find this kid some playmates who are doing the same things she's doing. But in the meantime, I dont' know how to respond to the comments of others. I don't know how DD will deal with it. And I do feel badly if other kids are looked at in a less favorable light when DD is around. No child deserves to be seen as "less than" just because another kid is doing something differently. Most kids are developing normally, and even their difficult behaviors are normal. I wish all parents of toddlers could just lighten up and not expect so much. It's too early in the game to freak out over their differences.

Faith

 

[tracilicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lúthien Arcamenel I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground.

I have really good kids too. Ds is rarely quiet in museums or any place else for that matter. He runs all over the place almost wherever we are. Stores are impossible with him. I leave him home with daddy on store nights. We're still waiting a bit longer on the restaraunts, but it's getting easier. Sometimes I think he goes deaf when I talk. It's a little early to tell with dd, but it's looking like she might be in the spirited camp as well.

Does any of that make them less "good"? Are they bad because they are not easy? Do I see easy kids and wonder what the secret of the parent is? No. I just meet my kids needs and appreciate the wonderousness of their personalities and carry on with life.

Actually, a lot of the time when I see parents give a command and kids snap to it I assume that the parent is strictly authoritarian. I'm not saying that all parents with easy kids are being controlling with them by any means. But we were made to be obedient when we were kids and we were very "well behaved," so that's just the connection I make.