[Banana731]

(x-posted from my DDC)

On Tuesday I have a meeting with the OB Department, (yes you read that right) and I am assuming someone from legal as well. They want me to sign some sort of paperwork they have had drawn up to release them from liability because I am VBACing and refusing continuous EFM. This meeting follows a very long tense meeting with the new OB in charge of VBAC(I think that's what he is) and my midwife, where I learned that the OB is an idiot fearmonger and my CNM is completely spineless when it comes to advocating for her patients and backing up her professed convictions.

So I intend to go this meeting that they scheduled without making sure I was available and take their paperwork and tell them I'd be happy to sign it in front of them after I have had someone at legal(not Naval Hospital Legal, obviously) take a look it to make sure that I am not signing away any recourse I would have in case these people actually do something terrible. (By the way, I know of at least 2 babies born here via c/s that had their faces slashed by the OB, which I will be bringing up if I am given a hard time about that.) I'm going to tell them that I will set up a meeting for that at my convience next week, and ask which of them wants to see me for it. And if there is any sort of implication that they need to "talk" more about this with me, then I am going to tell them that they should have contacted me directly to set up a meeting time instead of having my CNM deliver the message at 5 till close on the Friday before the three day weekend, and I have to pick up my kid from daycare(which is true,) and that I'm not interested in having anymore OB's try to scare me into doing what they want, because it's not going to work.

So if this paperwork they want me to sign is basically saying that I can't hold them liable for anything I'm not going to sign it. I can do that right? They can't deny me care right, wouldn't that be an EMTALA violation? This whole thing kind of sucks. And no, besides the Naval Hospital, I have NO OTHER options for professional care other than calling 119(japanese 911) as the baby is crowning and having an EMT deliver it in Nihongo unless I want to pay for a Japanese Hospital birth out of pocket.

Can you belive all this NOW when I'm due in 2 seconds, just beacuse I don't want continuous EFM???

 

[Midwife Kris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banana731 They can't deny me care right, wouldn't that be an EMTALA violation?

Does EMTALA exist within the military hospital system? EMTALA entitles you to obstetrical care, not a VBAC on your terms... unless of course you walk in crowning, what can be done?

 

[courtenay_e]

yeah...I'd say you're sick with the stomach flu, avoid that meeting, refuse to sign paperwork, and show up in labor ready to push. I WOULD get a legal counsel, though, to make sure that, because you're dealing with the military system and not the "regular" disaster of a US system, they can't pull anything like a fast one on you while you're in labor. I might even consider hiring somebody to come in with you in labor (I'm talking lawyer here not doula!) if they want to play legal document games!

: I'm just in that kind of mood right now, though.

 

[SublimeBirthGirl]

My professional & non-professional advice: have your baby somewhere else.

Often those types of agreements don't get enforced. That's especially true if there's true negligence.

 

[mendomidwife]

Laws differ from State to State...
They cannot ask you someone to give up their right to sue. But, they could ask you to sign an arbritration agreement - which states that you give up your right to a jury trial and would settle any dispute by mediation. Here in California these are very binding and legal agreements. They could also (probably) deny you care, unless you are in active labor and it would be medically inadvisable to transfer you at the time. Care providers have the right to refuse care to clients if they notify them through proper channels, i.e. in writing, and by certified mail.

Carla

 

[AlexisT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl My professional & non-professional advice: have your baby somewhere else. Often those types of agreements don't get enforced. That's especially true if there's true negligence.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is possible for the OP. She's dealing with an overseas military hospital and isn't entitled to local care. There's nowhere else to deliver.

I'd also refuse to sign the paperwork.

 

[AlexisT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwife Kris Does EMTALA exist within the military hospital system? EMTALA entitles you to obstetrical care, not a VBAC on your terms... unless of course you walk in crowning, what can be done?

I don't know if EMTALA exists within the military system, but what I think moms banking on EMTALA rely on is that 1) you can't deny care to a woman in active labour, and 2) you cannot force a patient to undergo any procedure s/he does not consent to. It sets up a situation where they would be forced to allow you to VBAC or get a court order.

 

[Bellejar]

Often those types of agreements don't get enforced. That's especially true if there's true negligence.[/QUOTE]

Yep they can't make you sign something that says you release them from negligence... I mean you could sign it but it won't matter if there is true negligence. Although if it is a deviation from their "standard of care" they probably want to cover themselves some.

 

[CEG]

Contact your congressperson and tell them the situation. Tell them you wanted to make it clear that you were being coerced into something. They will assist you. Then tell the Naval Hospital that you did that.

Contact the patient representative, contact the local ACLU, contact the local media, the girls scout council, the library book club.... Okay, the ACLU I WAS serious about. And maybe the media.

EMTALA means you are entitled to maternity care when you are in labor. THE LAW says you cannot be forced to undergo procedures. I do not know if you are active duty, but being ordered to undergo medical treatment is NOT a lawful order.

Good luck.

 

[Midwife Kris]

Interestingly there is a discussion on the ICAN email list about EMTALA and a lawyer is addressing it. EMTALA guarantees you care if you present to the hospital in labor. It does not guarantee you the care you desire (i.e., a VBAC at a non-VBAC hospital) and the hospital/care giver is not required by EMTALA to keep you in the facility if you refuse the care they have to offer.

 

[AlexisT]

That's really interesting. I remember on the ICAN site they were still saying that VBAC bans weren't legally enforceable. Of course, even if they aren't, they still prevent most VBACs by scaring women into repeat CS.

 

[mysticmomma]

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[SublimeBirthGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexisT Unfortunately, I don't think this is possible for the OP. She's dealing with an overseas military hospital and isn't entitled to local care. There's nowhere else to deliver. I'd also refuse to sign the paperwork.

UC is always an option, even if it means pretending you just didn't make it in time. That's what I'd do in this situation (though I'm a UCer anyway so take it for what it's worth).